Tertz wrote:

vorob wrote:

Still waiting for patch for Doom 1995 release 😀

Meanwhile Microsoft is busy in counting money and can't do normal OS, you may use VM with Win9x to run it.

That's kinda weird to hear from old-games-forum-guy. Since windows 10 play old games even better then windows 7. Many games that req special patched back then now plays out from the box.

vorob wrote:

Tertz wrote:

vorob wrote:

Still waiting for patch for Doom 1995 release 😀

Meanwhile Microsoft is busy in counting money and can't do normal OS, you may use VM with Win9x to run it.

That's kinda weird to hear from old-games-forum-guy. Since windows 10 play old games even better then windows 7. Many games that req special patched back then now plays out from the box.

Uh, this is really not accurate. Windows 8 did a lot of damage to backwards compatibility and from what I've heard, Windows 10 isn't close to recovering from it.

Many more games need complicated workarounds now than before, worst thing about Win7 was the 256 color bug which there was an universal fix for. There are no universal fixes for the many games with rendering issues in Win8+.

Not sure where you would even get the idea, I can't think of a game that runs better in Win8+ than it did in Win7.

Any list of games that worked under win 7 and not working under win 8-10 without fixes? Btw 256 color bug was fixed in win 8-10 via emulation, for me that's ok.

vorob wrote:

Any list of games that worked under win 7 and not working under win 8-10 without fixes? Btw 256 color bug was fixed in win 8-10 via emulation, for me that's ok.

No one's bothered to make a list no. If you want to know which games are broken in Win8-10, only way is to test. I can tell you there's a lot though.

There are workarounds for most of them, but Win10 definitely is not more compatible than Win7.

ZellSF wrote:

vorob wrote:

Any list of games that worked under win 7 and not working under win 8-10 without fixes? Btw 256 color bug was fixed in win 8-10 via emulation, for me that's ok.

No one's bothered to make a list no. If you want to know which games are broken in Win8-10, only way is to test. I can tell you there's a lot though.

There are workarounds for most of them, but Win10 definitely is not more compatible than Win7.

Please, name me few.

vorob wrote:

ZellSF wrote:

vorob wrote:

Any list of games that worked under win 7 and not working under win 8-10 without fixes? Btw 256 color bug was fixed in win 8-10 via emulation, for me that's ok.

No one's bothered to make a list no. If you want to know which games are broken in Win8-10, only way is to test. I can tell you there's a lot though.

There are workarounds for most of them, but Win10 definitely is not more compatible than Win7.

Please, name me few.

Blood 2
Claw
Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun
Dark Reign 2
Grandia 2
Jazz Jackrabbit 2
Jeff Wayne's the War of the Worlds
Killing Time
La-Mulana
Outlaws
Populous: The Beginning
Shogo: Mobile Armor Division
Zork Grand Inquisitor

Outlaws works fine for me with Direct3D.

vorob wrote:

windows 10 play old games even better then windows 7. Many games that req special patched back then now plays out from the box.

As we see Doom95 was not the case. Without concrete statistics your words about "even better then windows 7" worth nothing and look more as an advertising noodles. I'm sure you have no such list or it's rather short (we don't take into account 256 color bug because it has fix), so your words are based only on fantasies. Also I did not compare with Win7 and normal Windows OS should play almost all Windows games without problems, but not as we have now where many ones have issues.

MrEWhite wrote:

Outlaws works fine for me with Direct3D.

Are you using the GoG build? Because they've made Win8 specific fixes, which was my point.

Then again, the D3D renderer might work on some specific GPUs, but the DD render last time I checked failed pretty instantly.

All the games I listed can be made to work perfectly in Win8+ (with the possible exception of ZGI). It's just more work than it is in Win7.

ZellSF wrote:

Are you using the GoG build? Because they've made Win8 specific fixes, which was my point. […]
Show full quote

MrEWhite wrote:

Outlaws works fine for me with Direct3D.

Are you using the GoG build? Because they've made Win8 specific fixes, which was my point.

Then again, the D3D renderer might work on some specific GPUs, but the DD render last time I checked failed pretty instantly.

All the games I listed can be made to work perfectly in Win8+ (with the possible exception of ZGI). It's just more work than it is in Win7.

That's probably it 😜 But the Glide version was the only one working until I upgraded from Windows 8.

Getting back to Doom95, I think there's some kind of bug in the code... 320x200 fullscreen 256 colour with DirectDraw 1.0 works on Windows 10, at least, with my code.
So Doom95 may be making some wrong assumptions in the initialization code for DirectDraw, perhaps requesting something that modern videocards do not support.
I also find it somewhat strange that it draws to a window even though the pixel format is obviously wrong. I tried some compatibility settings, and then my GeForce started to give the same error message as my Intel one: that Doom95 can't access the videocard (or whatever the exact message was).

I'll have to set up some DirectDraw 1.0 windowed code for 256 colours to see if that can work in Windows 10.
Perhaps I get some useful error codes from that, and just maybe I may be able to compare that to what Doom95 is trying to do.

TL;DR: I suspect the problem is in the Doom95 code, not in Windows 10.
"Working code is not bugfree code"

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

leileilol wrote:

Looks like the artifact of buffer color depth/size mismatch. Have you tried it with dgVoodoo or DXGL's replacement ddraw.dlls?

Doom95's generally ick because of the Win9x-centric mouse support, but that's besides the point 😀 I get what you're trying to do, play the release as it were on a platform unforeseen. though to be fair XP wasn't on the agenda when Doom95 was developed up at wildtangent in 95. They had to do something to desperately show off DirectX with something well known, and with that desperation came the need for speed, and with that need for speed comes that obviously small pixel buffer being handled by 10 improperly.

it also shows that zenimax must get off their ass and do something about the Steam doom releases after Windows 10 launches because it WILL be like this, and there will be a lot of tears.

I STILL don't get why Zenimax hasn't done anything about the CD audio for Quake or Quake II. The music is the best part of those games! 🤣

It really is, beause it's Trent Reznor, I have my authentic silver original copy in pristine condition.

vorob wrote:

So i'm here on a strange matter, I've got Doom Collector's Edition which gathers Ultimate Doom, Doom II and Final Doom and it all works under Doom95. Was released in 2001.

I know that there are plenty of other Engines or even DosBox for vanilla, but really want to play this edition. Can you help me?

I'm stuck on this stage:

I've been wondering about this, but I've been wanting to look into DoomGL or glDoom because those seem like it might be a way to run Doom authentically on modern systems. Is Doom 95 better than glDoom/DoomGL or more authentic in any way (that matters)?

vogamer wrote:

I've been wondering about this, but I've been wanting to look into DoomGL or glDoom because those seem like it might be a way to run Doom authentically on modern systems. Is Doom 95 better than glDoom/DoomGL or more authentic in any way (that matters)?

Doom95 is a direct port of the original DOS version of Doom to Windows 95 (by none other than Microsoft themselves, as a showcase of how well Windows 95 could do games).
glDoom/DoomGL etc are not very authentic because they use 3d acceleration, where Doom was a software-rendered game.

Scali wrote:

vogamer wrote:

I've been wondering about this, but I've been wanting to look into DoomGL or glDoom because those seem like it might be a way to run Doom authentically on modern systems. Is Doom 95 better than glDoom/DoomGL or more authentic in any way (that matters)?

Doom95 is a direct port of the original DOS version of Doom to Windows 95 (by none other than Microsoft themselves, as a showcase of how well Windows 95 could do games).
glDoom/DoomGL etc are not very authentic because they use 3d acceleration, where Doom was a software-rendered game.

Thx for the info, our definitions of authentic gaming differ. I still think if Doom95 doesn't work or won't work well and if DoomGL and/or GLDoom work well, who cares?

gldoom modern? 🤣 That's a 1998 source port. You can't authentically recreate Doom in GL without pixel shaders for the colormaps lighyting and span effects etc

vogamer wrote:

It really is, beause it's Trent Rezno?

who has nothing to do with Quake II.

Chocolate Doom is the most faithful source port that runs on modern machines, with some backwards compatibility to boot.

It really is, beause it's Trent Reznor, I have my authentic silver original copy in pristine condition.

Because buying old games in steam is a weird idea. Old games = GOG.com, their release has music 😀

@ ZelSf
Whats the problem with shogo ?

Davros wrote:

@ ZelSf
Whats the problem with shogo ?

Didn't test myself but i assume that its same as for blood 2, fps problem. Since both games were made on crappy Lithtech engine.

For me, Doom95 is a special case, it never work right since Windows xp so why should it work fine over 10?
I actually tried some of my games from 9x and most of them from 1997 to 2000 worked just fine, some from 1995 - 1996 worked (somehow, I can even use hardware aceleration over tomb raider 2, that is a thing I couldn't do over Windows 7).
For me, Windows 10 is better for old games because: most of the old games that I use to play on modern systems almost all had the 256 color bug, and that doesn't exist with 10, so for me it's better :p
Still, it's funny to think like games like quake 2, almost 20 years released and still working just fine on modern systems, without requiring any aditional drivers/dll/tweaks, meanwhile, "games" like doom95 fails to run 5 years later.