Unreal A3D?

Getting old Windows games working.

Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Osprey » 2017-12-03 @ 18:45

Asaki wrote:I wonder if my version of Unreal is too old. When I tried it with my A3D card (not a wrapper), it sounded very much like it was only using 1.0 positioning. I'll have to try updating (though I thought that I did).

I'm not sure about regular Unreal, but the way that I found to enable A3D in Unreal Gold is to press ~ during the intro demo, type "preferences" and hit Enter, then set Audio -> Use3dHardware to True. I mention it because accessing that config window isn't intuitive.

lowenz wrote:Opsray, there's a NEW version of Indirect Sound to use in your package! (I see you're using it)

http://www.indirectsound.com/downloads/ ... d_0_13.zip

We got the author - jonpol - too on these forums: > viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36870&start=40

Yeah, I talked to him a few months ago and got his blessing. I'm aware of the new version of IndirectSound and played around with it when he released it, but chose to stick with v0.12, instead, because he disabled EAX support emulation in 0.13. He told me that he originally enabled it because some games wouldn't enable 3D sound without it and disabled it in 0.13 because some other games don't work correctly with it enabled. I believe that I found that A3D games work better with it than without, so sticking with 0.12 seemed preferable.
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2017-12-03 @ 18:48

EAX emulation for 3D positional sound is related to:

eax1 = true
eax2 = true

in the config file (dsound.ini), so the only thing needed is to set these 2 entries to "true" and you can use 0.13.

MY GUESS.
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Osprey » 2017-12-03 @ 19:01

Yeah, I know, but that would mean needing to include dsound.ini, which I don't need to do when I use the defaults. If there were some good reason to do that, I would, but it doesn't seem to me that the other changes in 0.13 are really applicable to A3D games or worth re-doing my testing for.
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Asaki » 2017-12-04 @ 02:36

Osprey wrote:I'm not sure about regular Unreal, but the way that I found to enable A3D in Unreal Gold is to press ~ during the intro demo, type "preferences" and hit Enter, then set Audio -> Use3dHardware to True. I mention it because accessing that config window isn't intuitive.


I'm pretty sure I have Gold on GoG, I just installed regular Unreal because it was already burned to a disc.
I'll have to put my Win98 machine back together and give it another go sometime.

Do you know if UE games like Deus Ex have the same level of support? I know most Q3 engine games only support 1.0 (Miles Sound System or whatever it's called).
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2017-12-12 @ 00:00

lowenz wrote:OK, it's working! :D

Image

Sometimes the speaks from an NPC remain in the "original" position (someone speaks from left, you turn or walk away and the sound remains at left), but maybe it's a Blood 2 specific issue.
I'm using Indirect Sound 0.13.

It's IS, the same behaviour is present in NOLF2.
Jonpol already knows.
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Asaki » 2018-1-14 @ 10:15

Osprey wrote:I'm not sure about regular Unreal, but the way that I found to enable A3D in Unreal Gold is to press ~ during the intro demo, type "preferences" and hit Enter, then set Audio -> Use3dHardware to True. I mention it because accessing that config window isn't intuitive.


Yeah, it's definitely less intuitive than the original Unreal. I went into unreal.ini and edited it manually...I'm not really noticing much of a difference in Gold. It still just sounds like A3D 1.0 to me, if anything.

I'll have to find a copy of Deus Ex and see if that does anything (pretty sure the Steam copy I have has DRM).
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-14 @ 13:52

Osprey wrote:Any feedback that you or anyone wants to give on how well it enables A3D in Blood II, Unreal, Jedi Knight II or any other A3D game is welcome and might help me make a decision on whether or not to release it officially or not.

Wait for jonpol next release, he's fixing some problems in indirectsound.
And maybe help the oldunreal community to find out a fix for Unreal 226i (future 226j). The game finds the your virtual A3D device but freezes.

There are 2 variables you need to set to true, not only "Use3dHardware" but "UseDirectSound" too.
Letting/setting "UseDirectSound" to false forces the use of WinMM.

The problem is related to "UseDirectSound" variable. If set to true -> freeze @start
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-14 @ 14:23

Update: it seems that my freezes are related to an OLD A3Dlive ( http://www.worknd.ru/ ) installation remnants.
I tested on another clean system and there's no freeze.
Installing and removing russian A3Dlive -> freeze (letting useDirectSound to true)

Maybe there are some files in Windows folder.

EDIT: yes, removing those old A3D-Live files in SysWOW64 -> DirectSound interface working
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-14 @ 14:37

Asaki wrote:
Osprey wrote:I'm not sure about regular Unreal, but the way that I found to enable A3D in Unreal Gold is to press ~ during the intro demo, type "preferences" and hit Enter, then set Audio -> Use3dHardware to True. I mention it because accessing that config window isn't intuitive.


Yeah, it's definitely less intuitive than the original Unreal. I went into unreal.ini and edited it manually...I'm not really noticing much of a difference in Gold. It still just sounds like A3D 1.0 to me, if anything.

I'll have to find a copy of Deus Ex and see if that does anything (pretty sure the Steam copy I have has DRM).

Putting the 3 Ospray files (a3d.dll, a3dapi.dll, a3dsnd.dll - I've updated to IS 0.14 the last one) in Unreal System dir seems to have no effect (in Blood 2 it works).
Unreal.log shows no A3D related entries, only DirectSound.
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-14 @ 19:16

I can confirm that Osprey's package works great in Elite Force 2 :D
Image

Now testing in Soldier of Fortune CE 6.2
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Asaki » 2018-1-14 @ 23:23

lowenz wrote:Putting the 3 Ospray files (a3d.dll, a3dapi.dll, a3dsnd.dll - I updated to IS 0.14 one) in Unreal System dir seems to have no effect (in Blood 2 it works).
Unreal.log shows no A3D related entries, only DirectSound.


I'm not using your drivers, I have an actual A3D card in Win98 :)

Deus Ex seems to be working (and is dead simple to patch out the Steam DRM), sounds pretty awesome.
Reverb must be disabled in the A3D control panel, though, otherwise everything reverberates itself into oblivion >_<
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Osprey » 2018-1-16 @ 06:23

lowenz wrote:Putting the 3 Ospray files (a3d.dll, a3dapi.dll, a3dsnd.dll - I've updated to IS 0.14 the last one) in Unreal System dir seems to have no effect (in Blood 2 it works).
Unreal.log shows no A3D related entries, only DirectSound.

Putting the files in the game folder won't work. A3D games don't look in the game folder for the A3D dlls. They query the registry for the names and locations of them. That's why installing them to the Windows folder, like A3D-Live and my package do, are kind of necessary. I know that I give an option in my installer to just extract the files, but that won't work for getting A3D working. You need to use the installer.
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-17 @ 01:00

Thanks!
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-18 @ 20:24

It's working! :D

Log: Bound to Galaxy.dll
Init: Galaxy is using DirectSound
Init: Aureal A3D 2.x 3D sound hardware found!
Init: Galaxy initialized


Unreal Gold 2.27i
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Asaki » 2018-1-18 @ 23:26

It says it's working, but at least on my setup, I don't hear any difference.

Deus Ex is very noticable, especially with the reverb bug, which Unreal doesn't have.

I'm going to test out UT this weekend. I'm also going to try to find another PC to test on.
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-19 @ 21:14

This is the result in the classic Nali Castle demo using the Osprey wrapper updated with IS 0.14 (surround option enabled to in unreal.ini):

Image

Those silences are a "radius" issue?
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Lifeisstrange74 » 2018-1-20 @ 21:10

Asaki wrote:It says it's working, but at least on my setup, I don't hear any difference.

Deus Ex is very noticable, especially with the reverb bug, which Unreal doesn't have.

I'm going to test out UT this weekend. I'm also going to try to find another PC to test on.

I don't even hear any reverb in Unreal Gold 227i. All I hear is some slightly patchy occlusions.
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby Lifeisstrange74 » 2018-1-20 @ 21:29

Osprey wrote:Yeah, I know, but that would mean needing to include dsound.ini, which I don't need to do when I use the defaults. If there were some good reason to do that, I would, but it doesn't seem to me that the other changes in 0.13 are really applicable to A3D games or worth re-doing my testing for.

Half Life WON/Non steam (The pirate versions you can play cracked CS 1.6 online on) crashes with your package. Unreal has no reverb from A3D (Galaxy echos are there instead) but occlusions work properly, though inconsistent near the part where a human fires behind a door while on the prison ship (it cuts in and out randomly). Works fine enough though
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-20 @ 21:43

lowenz wrote:Image
Those silences are a "radius" issue?

And this is HW DS (Indirect Sound), to compare:

Image
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Re: Unreal A3D?

Postby lowenz » 2018-1-21 @ 14:43

Sin (original 1998 iso + patch 1.11): A3D working BUT there's a problem with the dialogues (there's NO dialogues at all)
With DS dialogues are working.
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