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First post, by Rekrul

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A while back, I installed Jedi Knight and was completely unable to get hardware acceleration to work. I tried every patch I could find (that worked on my old system) and nothing worked. As soon as I enable hardware mode, the graphics are completely scrambled.

Just now, I got the idea to see if I could use a Glide wrapper. I copied Nglide's Glide2x.dll to the game's directory, and started it with the -displayconfig parameter, but when I click the Advanced button, the wrapper isn't listed. I've tried both Nglide and dgvoodoo. No additional options show up in the Advanced screen.

Jedi Knight was installed from a full, retail CD, not a digital copy. I did not install the Glide wrappers as I had a problem with that in the past. I've always just copied the DLL file to the game's directory and that's worked for other games. I also tried copying all the various DLL files from Nglide to the directory and that didn't work either.

I was hoping that using a wrapper would all bypass the problems I have with Direct3D.

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong and why the wrapper doesn't create any additional options in the Advanced settings?

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-05-22, 04:11. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 22, by Garrett W

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The game only makes use of D3D, so installing a Glide wrapper will not do the trick. Dgvoodoo2 should work, as long as you are using it as a D3D wrapper. I found some suggestions in the following link, see if you can get them to work:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_ … II#Issues_fixed

Reply 2 of 22, by Rekrul

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Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 11:58:

The game only makes use of D3D, so installing a Glide wrapper will not do the trick. Dgvoodoo2 should work, as long as you are using it as a D3D wrapper.

Oh, I was under the impression that you could tell it to use 3DFX. Unfortunately, I have an old system and can't use that wrapper.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 11:58:

I found some suggestions in the following link, see if you can get them to work:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_ … II#Issues_fixed

Been there, done that. Tried every patch, every replacement DLL, Dxwnd, etc. Nothing fixes the graphics in hardware mode. They're just a scrambled mess. It's like every vertex is connected to every other vertex. The game runs fine in software mode, but then you can't use the JK Enhanced mod.

Reply 3 of 22, by Jorpho

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This was being discussed in another thread recently. It appears that something broke in nVidia's drivers somewhere along the way. Perhaps you saw that thread already?
Running Motocross Madness, JK2 and others on Windows XP

The GOG version requires at least Windows 7 and is presumably using dgVoodoo.
https://www.gog.com/game/star_wars_jedi ... _forces_ii

There's always PCem if you have the hardware for it.

Reply 5 of 22, by Rekrul

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Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-21, 14:53:

This was being discussed in another thread recently. It appears that something broke in nVidia's drivers somewhere along the way. Perhaps you saw that thread already?

No, I haven't. I actually don't spend much time here any more. I think the new forum looks horrible and on the older browsers that I use, it lags like you wouldn't believe. It goes off into limbo for 10-20 seconds every time I click something.

Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-21, 14:53:

The GOG version requires at least Windows 7 and is presumably using dgVoodoo.
https://www.gog.com/game/star_wars_jedi ... _forces_ii

I doubt it would work any better even if I could run it. My problem is exactly the same as in the thread you linked to. Nvidia cards just suck at backwards compatibility.

Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-21, 14:53:

There's always PCem if you have the hardware for it.

I've looked at that in the past, but to be honest, I'm not quite sure how to set it up. I don't know where to get the required ROMs for each type of machine. It would probably be too slow to use.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 15:36:

What kind of hardware do you have Rekrul?

I have a 2.4ghz Core-2-Duo, 4GB RAM, Nvidia GT 430 graphics card, Realtek onboard audio. The biggest limiting factor is that I still have Windows XP.

Yes, I know it's no longer supported and it's considered ancient by today's standards. I'd like to get a newer/faster system, but I don't have a lot of money and I really dislike Windows 10 with its spyware and forced updates. I know people that have it and it's always giving them trouble with changing things, downloading tons of crap that they don't want, etc. I know I could probably install Windows 7 on this system, but I don't have Windows 7 and I'm extremely reluctant to nuke a system that works and start over from scratch. With a new system (well, new to me), I'd still have this one as a backup.

I've thought about building a system, but to be honest, I don't know much about selecting components, how to pick a good motherboard, which CPUs are best, etc. I like when things just work. I really don't like having to tinker with stuff to get everything working.

I still have my old WIn98SE system. Well, I have all the parts to it. Windows got screwed up and I never re-installed it. It's just been sitting in the attic. I'm not even sure all the parts are together. Important tip: NEVER change the ScanDisk config setting for "Validate long filenames"! It will cause it to rename every single file in the system to its DOS 8.3 counterpart!

Reply 6 of 22, by Jorpho

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Rekrul wrote on 2020-05-21, 16:43:

I doubt it would work any better even if I could run it. My problem is exactly the same as in the thread you linked to. Nvidia cards just suck at backwards compatibility.

Have you looked into the oldest driver supported by your card?

Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-21, 14:53:

There's always PCem if you have the hardware for it.

I've looked at that in the past, but to be honest, I'm not quite sure how to set it up. I don't know where to get the required ROMs for each type of machine. It would probably be too slow to use.

Of course it is very reasonable to be opposed to such things, but at this point I expect it should be quite easy to find a completely pre-configured package with the necessary ROMs and hard drive images. But as you say, you would probably need a faster computer.

Reply 7 of 22, by Garrett W

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You should be able to get the game working on this type of hardware and OS. Use an older driver version and try the compatible tweaks mentioned in that PCGaming Wiki entry, especially the ddraw.dll one. I remember playing the game on similar hardware at the time and it was fine.

On another note, a simple AM4 Athlon 3000G or Ryzen 3200G with a cheap motherboard, 2 sticks of RAM, integrated graphics and a decent SSD will obliterate your current system while being relatively inexpensive. Windows 10 is essentially free at this point (setup will nag you once about product key which you can ignore and from then on the system will warn you but never actually lock you out) and you can buy product keys for like 10-15EURO/USD from third parties. Surely a better experience from long unsupported Windows XP! If that's not your cup of tea or preferred hot beverage, you could also try an easy Linux distribution such as Linux Mint. I know times are tough and sticking to what you have and know is comfortable, but consider moving on as I genuinely believe you will really notice the difference in performance.

Reply 8 of 22, by Lawnie

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To further add to what Garrett was saying, with Mint you can use Steam's Proton with Jedi Knight, which adds a compatibility layer that works pretty well last time I tried it. If you do make the jump to a more advanced copy of Windows there's the recently collated Jedi Knight Remastered mod, which has a series of community fixes and upgrades in an all-in-one installer. If you do go for that I'd recommend removing the AI upscaled textures from the jknup folder that the mod adds, as this tanks the framerate.

Also if you plan on playing, either cap your frames to 30fps if you don't have a monitor with a variable refresh rate, or 47 if you do. That'll give you a smooth experience for the most part.

GET OFF MY LAWN - Yet another retro PC game review channel.

Reply 9 of 22, by Garrett W

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Lawnie wrote on 2020-05-21, 23:03:

Also if you plan on playing, either cap your frames to 30fps if you don't have a monitor with a variable refresh rate, or 47 if you do. That'll give you a smooth experience for the most part.

Does this really work? AFAIK the game's camera updates at 30FPS, so why would a 47fps update make things smoother, provided you have a monitor with variable-refresh rate so no hiccups occur?

Reply 10 of 22, by Lawnie

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Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 23:34:
Lawnie wrote on 2020-05-21, 23:03:

Also if you plan on playing, either cap your frames to 30fps if you don't have a monitor with a variable refresh rate, or 47 if you do. That'll give you a smooth experience for the most part.

Does this really work? AFAIK the game's camera updates at 30FPS, so why would a 47fps update make things smoother, provided you have a monitor with variable-refresh rate so no hiccups occur?

I've not tested this personally because my monitor doesn't have a variable refresh rate, but the animations and game in general are demonstrably smoother at 47fps even with the frame pacing courtesy of the locked camera. Supposedly the refresh rate will eliminate that frame pacing, but until I get a better monitor I'll not be able to say for sure.

For me the 30FPS lock is still the best compromise between smooth gameplay and no hiccups.

GET OFF MY LAWN - Yet another retro PC game review channel.

Reply 11 of 22, by filipetolhuizen

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Anti-Aliasing garbles the graphics completely (creates trails all over the screen, is that what's happening with you?). You'll need to create a nvidia profile for JK to disable AA.

Reply 12 of 22, by DosFreak

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DXGL worked for me on Windows 2000 w/980 to to fix this for Dark Forces 2

DOSBox Compilation Guides
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PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 13 of 22, by Rekrul

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Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-21, 17:29:

Have you looked into the oldest driver supported by your card?

No. I really didn't want to mess with the drivers if it could be avoided.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:38:

You should be able to get the game working on this type of hardware and OS. Use an older driver version and try the compatible tweaks mentioned in that PCGaming Wiki entry, especially the ddraw.dll one. I remember playing the game on similar hardware at the time and it was fine.

I tried all the tweaks in the Wiki and none of them (of the ones that worked for me) fixed hardware accelerated mode.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:38:

On another note, a simple AM4 Athlon 3000G or Ryzen 3200G with a cheap motherboard, 2 sticks of RAM, integrated graphics and a decent SSD will obliterate your current system while being relatively inexpensive.

Unfortunately I know very little about choosing a good system. I once thought of building my own system. I picked a motherboard with great sounding specs, then I looked at the comments. "This is a piece of junk!", "Don't buy this if you want to use xxx CPU!", "This has a terrible bottleneck on the system bus that slows things down to a crawl!" OK, pick another motherboard that sounds even better. "Ugh! The chipset on this board is full of problems!", "You can't use DDRx RAM in this thing so forget about performance!", "Don't buy this if you plan to run any games!"

I really don't want to study for a PHD in computer hardware, I just want something that works fairly well without major problems. Something that can run most modern emulators at a decent speed. I know that's kind of a vague goal, but I've watched videos of people running the PS2 version of Gran Turismo in 4-8x native resolution at 60fps while the same game chugs along on my system at about 5fps. I've seen Gamecube games played in 4K with updated textures while my system turns some games into a slideshow if I don't disable the audio.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:38:

Windows 10 is essentially free at this point (setup will nag you once about product key which you can ignore and from then on the system will warn you but never actually lock you out) and you can buy product keys for like 10-15EURO/USD from third parties.

I've never used Windows 10, but I have a moral objection to the spyware and the forced updates. Some people say that both can be turned off, but when I Google it, most sites say that there's no way to turn off all the spyware and that updates absolutely can not be turned off, that you can delay an update, but eventually you will be forced to install it whether you want to or not. My friend has Win10 on his systems. It wasn't his conscious choice, he ended up with it due to Microsoft's stealth download of the installer, and then it bugging him constantly to install, until he finally let it. He's had a ton of problems with it. It's always going off into limbo on on him, doing updates or something in the background. It's broken his old printer driver more than once. Old games have stopped working after updates and most recently it downloaded and installed a crap-ton of stuff that he didn't want and will never use.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:38:

Surely a better experience from long unsupported Windows XP! If that's not your cup of tea or preferred hot beverage, you could also try an easy Linux distribution such as Linux Mint. I know times are tough and sticking to what you have and know is comfortable, but consider moving on as I genuinely believe you will really notice the difference in performance.

I tried a bootable Linux CD once. It booted up to a desktop environment and from there I couldn't figure out how to do anything.

I'd like to get a newer, faster system with Windows 7, even though I know it's now no longer supported. I've looked at refurbished systems with i5 and i7 processors, but they often don't come with any OS installed. So then I need to get a copy of Win7 and install it from scratch, plus add another $200 minimum for a decent graphics card, which today is considered "bargain basement" level and by the time I get done, I'll have spent $500-600 anyway. If I want a good graphics card, that's probably $300-400. Then I'll have a 64-bit OS that will be supported by third-party software for at least a few more years and I can have the fun of trying to install older games that don't work in a 64-bit environment...

filipetolhuizen wrote on 2020-05-24, 23:40:

Anti-Aliasing garbles the graphics completely (creates trails all over the screen, is that what's happening with you?). You'll need to create a nvidia profile for JK to disable AA.

I get exactly thesame problem as in this post;

Running Motocross Madness, JK2 and others on Windows XP

I tried disabling anti-aliasing completely in the Nvidia control panel, but it didn't make any difference.

DosFreak wrote on 2020-05-25, 13:24:

DXGL worked for me on Windows 2000 w/980 to to fix this for Dark Forces 2

DXGL says that it's a replacement for ddraw.dll. Does that mean it's going to replace the one in my system directory, or will it just override the system one. I'm hesitant to try it unless the change can be rolled back if I have problems.

Reply 14 of 22, by DosFreak

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Just like any wrapper place the wrapper files in the same directory as the game executable.

DXGL will automatically copy the ddraw.dll files to the game folder if you add the exe through the DXGL interface.

For emulation Intel is still king. I'm waiting for the new AMD chips later this year to see if it's worth upgrading from my 6700k I built on 8/2016 so close to the 5yr mark when I usually upgrade processors.

If you don't already have a firewall between your network and the Internet blocking inbound and outbound traffic except what you want then it doesn't make much sense to complain about the OS.

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 15 of 22, by filipetolhuizen

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Rekrul wrote on 2020-05-27, 21:11:
No. I really didn't want to mess with the drivers if it could be avoided. […]
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Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-21, 17:29:

Have you looked into the oldest driver supported by your card?

No. I really didn't want to mess with the drivers if it could be avoided.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:38:

You should be able to get the game working on this type of hardware and OS. Use an older driver version and try the compatible tweaks mentioned in that PCGaming Wiki entry, especially the ddraw.dll one. I remember playing the game on similar hardware at the time and it was fine.

I tried all the tweaks in the Wiki and none of them (of the ones that worked for me) fixed hardware accelerated mode.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:38:

On another note, a simple AM4 Athlon 3000G or Ryzen 3200G with a cheap motherboard, 2 sticks of RAM, integrated graphics and a decent SSD will obliterate your current system while being relatively inexpensive.

Unfortunately I know very little about choosing a good system. I once thought of building my own system. I picked a motherboard with great sounding specs, then I looked at the comments. "This is a piece of junk!", "Don't buy this if you want to use xxx CPU!", "This has a terrible bottleneck on the system bus that slows things down to a crawl!" OK, pick another motherboard that sounds even better. "Ugh! The chipset on this board is full of problems!", "You can't use DDRx RAM in this thing so forget about performance!", "Don't buy this if you plan to run any games!"

I really don't want to study for a PHD in computer hardware, I just want something that works fairly well without major problems. Something that can run most modern emulators at a decent speed. I know that's kind of a vague goal, but I've watched videos of people running the PS2 version of Gran Turismo in 4-8x native resolution at 60fps while the same game chugs along on my system at about 5fps. I've seen Gamecube games played in 4K with updated textures while my system turns some games into a slideshow if I don't disable the audio.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:38:

Windows 10 is essentially free at this point (setup will nag you once about product key which you can ignore and from then on the system will warn you but never actually lock you out) and you can buy product keys for like 10-15EURO/USD from third parties.

I've never used Windows 10, but I have a moral objection to the spyware and the forced updates. Some people say that both can be turned off, but when I Google it, most sites say that there's no way to turn off all the spyware and that updates absolutely can not be turned off, that you can delay an update, but eventually you will be forced to install it whether you want to or not. My friend has Win10 on his systems. It wasn't his conscious choice, he ended up with it due to Microsoft's stealth download of the installer, and then it bugging him constantly to install, until he finally let it. He's had a ton of problems with it. It's always going off into limbo on on him, doing updates or something in the background. It's broken his old printer driver more than once. Old games have stopped working after updates and most recently it downloaded and installed a crap-ton of stuff that he didn't want and will never use.

Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-21, 22:38:

Surely a better experience from long unsupported Windows XP! If that's not your cup of tea or preferred hot beverage, you could also try an easy Linux distribution such as Linux Mint. I know times are tough and sticking to what you have and know is comfortable, but consider moving on as I genuinely believe you will really notice the difference in performance.

I tried a bootable Linux CD once. It booted up to a desktop environment and from there I couldn't figure out how to do anything.

I'd like to get a newer, faster system with Windows 7, even though I know it's now no longer supported. I've looked at refurbished systems with i5 and i7 processors, but they often don't come with any OS installed. So then I need to get a copy of Win7 and install it from scratch, plus add another $200 minimum for a decent graphics card, which today is considered "bargain basement" level and by the time I get done, I'll have spent $500-600 anyway. If I want a good graphics card, that's probably $300-400. Then I'll have a 64-bit OS that will be supported by third-party software for at least a few more years and I can have the fun of trying to install older games that don't work in a 64-bit environment...

filipetolhuizen wrote on 2020-05-24, 23:40:

Anti-Aliasing garbles the graphics completely (creates trails all over the screen, is that what's happening with you?). You'll need to create a nvidia profile for JK to disable AA.

I get exactly thesame problem as in this post;

Running Motocross Madness, JK2 and others on Windows XP

I tried disabling anti-aliasing completely in the Nvidia control panel, but it didn't make any difference.

DosFreak wrote on 2020-05-25, 13:24:

DXGL worked for me on Windows 2000 w/980 to to fix this for Dark Forces 2

DXGL says that it's a replacement for ddraw.dll. Does that mean it's going to replace the one in my system directory, or will it just override the system one. I'm hesitant to try it unless the change can be rolled back if I have problems.

Nvidia drivers on WinXP can be messy. When the 1xx.xx drivers came out, they broke 99% of pre-DX8 games which were only fixed upon 2xx.xx drivers release and 27x.xx broke other stuff as well. Stay between 25x.xx and 26x.xx if you can.

Reply 16 of 22, by ZellSF

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I've never used Windows 10, but I have a moral objection to the spyware and the forced updates.

I'd like to get a newer, faster system with Windows 7

Windows 7 has "spyware" too, from launch and a lot more included with updates. If you have a moral objection to it, you should be using Linux. Alternatively, setup Windows without internet, in which case Windows 10 can't spy or force updates either.

Maybe off topic derailment, but considering "This forum is for running old windows games on NEW (supported) versions of Windows" and OP is using XP...

Reply 17 of 22, by RetroLizard

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Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-21, 14:53:

The GOG version requires at least Windows 7 and is presumably using dgVoodoo.
https://www.gog.com/game/star_wars_jedi ... _forces_ii

This is partially false. The installer requires a modern version of Windows, but the actual game will run on Windows 95/98 just fine.

Also, OP, a general rule of thumb is to go with parts that are compatible with the game's minimum system requirements. You already have a Windows 98 machine, which will do just fine, so all you need to do (if you haven't already) is get a late 90s/early 2000s video card with Win9x drivers.

Reply 18 of 22, by ZellSF

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RetroLizard wrote on 2020-05-28, 15:13:
Jorpho wrote on 2020-05-21, 14:53:

The GOG version requires at least Windows 7 and is presumably using dgVoodoo.
https://www.gog.com/game/star_wars_jedi ... _forces_ii

This is partially false. The installer requires a modern version of Windows, but the actual game will run on Windows 95/98 just fine.

Also it doesn't use dgVoodoo (I don't think any GOG games do). If it did it wouldn't list DirectX 9.0c as the minimum requirement, but DirectX 11.

Reply 19 of 22, by Jorpho

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ZellSF wrote on 2020-05-28, 15:34:
RetroLizard wrote on 2020-05-28, 15:13:

This is partially false. The installer requires a modern version of Windows, but the actual game will run on Windows 95/98 just fine.

Also it doesn't use dgVoodoo (I don't think any GOG games do). If it did it wouldn't list DirectX 9.0c as the minimum requirement, but DirectX 11.

Well, in that case, did they modify it some other way? It doesn't seem to be the same as the Steam version if the reviews are any indication.