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First post, by Presbytier

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I was using A3D alchemy to get 3d audio in several older games most notably Dark Forces II Jedi Knight. It was the only method that worked. In troubleshooting a different issue i was having with a different game I performed a fresh install of Windows 10 updated all my drivers and installed A3D alchemy. It would not work. As I was still pretty early in setting up I went ahead and performed another clean install. unfortunately it will not work. I would appreciate any tips as this was the only way i was able to get 3D audio working in games like Dark Forces II.

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 1 of 24, by cyclone3d

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Alchemy isn't for A3D, it is for EAX.

Looks like there is A3D-Live though and you have to install Alchemy first for certain games apparently.

https://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26077
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/your-old-pc-ga … wrapper.881030/

What sound card do you have?

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 2 of 24, by Presbytier

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So it is an actual thing that exists. it was made by someone here. I was using this as tremendous success for games DSOAL just would not work on or regular Creative Alchemy would not work on like Dark Forces II
Re: Unreal A3D?

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 3 of 24, by Presbytier

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In some odd turn of event a3d_liv.exe now works for me where it would never work before. Anyhow I swear to god my windows 10 pc has a ghost just to torture me. i still would love to get A3D alchemy to work but this might work for now.

EDIT So It works sort of. The system registers A3d but it crashes Dark Forces 2the moment you try to make any noise. I tried The Phantom Menace as that was another easy and quick to instal A3D game i have and it actually works without any issues. But I was honestly doing all of this to restore 3d audio to Dark Forces 2.

Last edited by Presbytier on 2020-04-15, 04:05. Edited 1 time in total.

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 4 of 24, by cyclone3d

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Ah, very interesting. First time I have heard of it.

Do you have the actual drivers installed for your motherboard and whatever sound chip/card you are using?

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 5 of 24, by Presbytier

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Yeah I have the latest Creative drivers for the soundblasterx ae-5. Like I said all of this was working just today before i decided to nuke my Windows install. I am blaming going stir crazy for that dumb idea.

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 6 of 24, by Presbytier

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Yeah using A3D_Live has a lot more compatibility issues from what I can tell. Several games crash whereas they ran fine with A3D Alchemy.

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 7 of 24, by Choum

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If you have a recent creative card (Z, AE etc..) you can try this package :
https://mega.nz/file/LQkjDIzC#o5sv2mWOLl2Mf7b … TlZR7gT1xUf9W70

I will require to uninstall other A3D package and remove any A3D.DLL and A3DAPI.DLL you could have in system folder (fresh windows install do not have any).

I have made it myselft (principaly to restore surround sound in A3D game), It include the official A3D creative wrapper, latest A2D drivers and all A3D registry needed by some game (like jedi knight 2).
You can also use Creative alchemy in A3D game as the A3D wrapper will generally try to convert sound to directsound if avalaible.

AFAIK the only game that do not work (no sound) with this package is the A3D version of MDK1 (it will require to put on oldest version of the A3D.dll inside the game folder to work like version 2.9.0.0 or the A3D.dll include in the latest official A3D drivers "a3ddrivers312")

Last edited by Choum on 2020-04-15, 08:04. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 9 of 24, by Choum

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Yes alchemy is not mandatory as A3D can use different output.

The Aureal A2D drivers allow 3D Sound on other sound cards, the A2D drivers provide: […]
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The Aureal A2D drivers allow 3D Sound on other sound cards, the A2D drivers provide:

DirectSound3D & occlusions support on any sound card with DirectSound3D support
Basic software 3D sound and occlusions support on any sound card without DirectSound3D support.

A3D 1.0
DirectSound provides the base API and engine, and A3D 1.0 is simply an extension to it to provide added functionality. A3D 1.0 has a similar relationship to DirectSound3D as EAX has to DirectSound3D: it's an extension of the DirectSound3D functionality.

A3D 2.0
Things are completely different. While A3D 2.0 is a complete sound engine (or simply an added feature) that does not require another API or engine to operate, and is designed to be cross-platform portable, it still sends DirectSound3D calls to the hardware in the cases where it is optimal. These cases exist when the user does not have an Aureal sound card but has another hardware accelerated DirectSound3D PCI sound card under Windows.
While the programmer only has to write to one API, the user still gets the best possible experience according to his or her sound card's capabilities.
A3D 2.0 in this case also augments the DirectSound3D support with the addition of Aureal Wavetracing-based occlusions (the effect upon sounds as they are absorbed and blocked by objects and walls), advanced resource management and improved acoustic effects.

On Aureal Vortex 2 hardware all the features of A3D 2.0 are turned on and run optimally, but in the absence of such hardware, improved audio performance, 3D positioning and other features are still provided to the best of the abilities of the sound card.
So, while A3D 2.0 doesn't require DirectSound3D it's as if the programmer coded to DirectSound3D (with the added bonus of A3D's additional features).

In the case of your card, the A3D wrapper is already installed with the sound card drivers.

Reply 10 of 24, by Presbytier

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So that wrapper works, although the actual audio balancing seems really weird and not very good at least in Dark Forces 2. Not sure why though. Anyhow more things to play around with. Thanks a lot though as it works at least.

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 12 of 24, by Presbytier

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I did it still sounds pretty bad in comparison to how A3D Alchemy did. Not really sure why. Other things do seem to sound fine although Voyager Elite Force crashes when I try to enable A3D now.

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 13 of 24, by Choum

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Presbytier wrote on 2020-04-15, 19:22:

I did it still sounds pretty bad in comparison to how A3D Alchemy did. Not really sure why. Other things do seem to sound fine although Voyager Elite Force crashes when I try to enable A3D now.

For Voyager Elite force I just tried.

A3d wrapper alone -> Crash ( probably because the game will try to load the default Dsound.dll from windows)
A3d Wrapper + Alchemy -> ok

A3d live works (option on) also with this game because this wrapper do not use default dsound.dll but a rename indirectsound dll. (Dsound.dll -> a3dsnd.dll)

Reply 14 of 24, by Presbytier

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I played around a lot with the creative sound settings and seemed to have found a better more balanced sound config that is not nearly as bad as how it started. Not perfect but good enough. Anyhow thanks for putting that installer together.

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 16 of 24, by cyclone3d

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Check this. If you are running Windows 10 x64, then you will most likely need to move some files around since the Alchemy installer doesn't actually work properly on Windows 10 x64.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial … lem_windows_10/

I think there is possibly some other stuff that needs to be done as well but not finding it at the moment.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 17 of 24, by Choum

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-04-16, 18:22:

Check this. If you are running Windows 10 x64, then you will most likely need to move some files around since the Alchemy installer doesn't actually work properly on Windows 10 x64.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial … lem_windows_10/

I think there is possibly some other stuff that needs to be done as well but not finding it at the moment.

This is a reddit post I have made some time ago.
The first part is still correct (sometime the host openal installer is not correctly installed on x64 os)

The second part about forcing alchemy to use hostopenal dll (instead of Creative Software 3D Library) is a bad idea in fact.
It will break / mute EAX effect in some game, like the first call of duty, if you want to test yourself, try both method during the sewer level.

Reply 18 of 24, by Presbytier

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yeah I was aware of needing to move the OpenAl stuff I still think it is crazy this has not been fixed yet 🤣

"Never pay more than 20 dollars for a computer game" - Guybrush Threepwood

Reply 19 of 24, by Discrete_BOB_058

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Presbytier wrote on 2020-04-15, 04:57:

Yeah using A3D_Live has a lot more compatibility issues from what I can tell. Several games crash whereas they ran fine with A3D Alchemy.

How did you install it? I alwayd get a install failed optiom even whilr having admin privileges.

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