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Reply 40 of 71, by ruthan

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Ok, we are finally on good way, im in game. Thanks to Narzoul and his ability to analyze dump files.

When i deleted that:
C:\Windows\SysWoW64\a3dapi.dll .. im now i game. I dont really remember if graphics is looked as it should - Direct3D device is names Gog HW patch.. graphics not look too much nice, becaue of my memory im not sure if this how it supposed to look at the best.. or its some Gog pseudo SW rendering hack. BTW with dgVoodoo and others is possible to use higher res than 1024x768?, in registry is something about 1600x1200. Resolution settings is designer by some moror - i need right click for lower it and left for higher res..

No go version no giving me just some blinking and autoclose, no more black screen, so now it could be finally videocard related.. Gog has some Direct3D patch, retail has not, im still not 1.7.0 vanilla.

Otherwise i thing that delete some system *.dll file is not proper way how to fix? Does someone now if is files is part of Realtek drivers or from where it came from? Its possible to make some workaround for game to ignore this file is Windows system fodler?

Other strange thing is that minimally Gog version is probably ignoring that -nosound parameter, because sound is working.. at least somehow.. i heard some stuttering.

Last edited by ruthan on 2021-03-16, 15:47. Edited 1 time in total.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 41 of 71, by Narzoul

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On my system, with -nosound there is still sound in the intro movies, but not in the main menu.
Regardless, in the nosound crash dump, it's still stuck in a3dapi.dll. I don't now what it is, but check this thread, it could be related:
A3d Alchemy Not Working in Windows 10

Reply 42 of 71, by BEEN_Nath_58

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ruthan wrote on 2021-03-16, 15:21:
Ok, we are finally on good way, im in game. Thanks to Narzoul and his ability to analyze dump files. […]
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Ok, we are finally on good way, im in game. Thanks to Narzoul and his ability to analyze dump files.

When i deleted that:
C:\Windows\SysWoW64\a3dapi.dll .. im now i game. I dont really remember if graphics is looked as it should - Direct3D device is names Gog HW patch.. graphics not look too much nice, becaue of my memory im not sure if this how it supposed to look at the best.. or its some Gog pseudo SW rendering hack. BTW with dgVoodoo and others is possible to use higher res than 1024x768?, in registry is something about 1600x1200.

No go version no giving me just some blinking and autoclose, no more black screen, so now it could be finally videocard related.. Gog has some Direct3D patch, retail has not, im still not 1.7.0 vanilla.

Otherwise i thing that delete some system *.dll file is not proper way how to fix? Does someone now if is files is part of Realtek drivers or from where it came from? Its possible to make some workaround for game to ignore this file is Windows system fodler?

Other strange thing is that minimally Gog version is probably ignoring that -nosound parameter, because sound is working.. at least somehow.. i heard some stuttering.

a3dapi.dll was never a part of Windows 10. It was installed as a part of some driver that got installed while installing an old game, or you manually tried to install an A3D wrapper.
You can delete a3dapi.dll from the SysWOW64 folder safely, it was a Aureal3D driver file

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 43 of 71, by ruthan

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There are details about file, which i have to delete:

AurealFIle.png
Filename
AurealFIle.png
File size
18.09 KiB
Views
729 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Its pretty old.. and its strange that file from 2000 its in System 64bit folder, not 32 bit.

Otherwise in game is some Qsound on/off options, i have it on, its probably some sound enhancer.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 44 of 71, by BEEN_Nath_58

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ruthan wrote on 2021-03-16, 15:34:
There are details about file, which i have to delete: AurealFIle.png […]
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There are details about file, which i have to delete:
AurealFIle.png

Its pretty old.. and its strange that file from 2000 its in System 64bit folder, not 32 bit.

Otherwise in game is some Qsound on/off options, i have it on, its probably some sound enhancer.

This file looks liks from a A3D wrapper 'A3D Live'or 'A3D Alchemy'. I have the same file which is even from 2000 and I installed myself.

SYSWOW64 has 32 bit files, System32 has the 64 bit files.

Last edited by BEEN_Nath_58 on 2021-03-17, 04:29. Edited 1 time in total.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 45 of 71, by teleguy

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You could try applying IgnoreLoadLibrary with the parameter a3dapi.dll from MS compatibility toolkit If you don't want to delete the file.

Last edited by teleguy on 2021-03-16, 18:58. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 46 of 71, by ZellSF

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ruthan wrote on 2021-03-16, 15:21:

Ok, we are finally on good way, im in game. Thanks to Narzoul and his ability to analyze dump files.

When i deleted that:
C:\Windows\SysWoW64\a3dapi.dll .. im now i game. I dont really remember if graphics is looked as it should - Direct3D device is names Gog HW patch.. graphics not look too much nice, becaue of my memory im not sure if this how it supposed to look at the best.. or its some Gog pseudo SW rendering hack. BTW with dgVoodoo and others is possible to use higher res than 1024x768?, in registry is something about 1600x1200.

The game will accept any resolution you set via the Screen Width and Screen Height registry settings, but:

1) Menus are locked at 640x480
2) Resolution affects text size and quality
3) Widescreen is vert- with streched UI

So stick with 1024x768 and force a resolution with dgVoodoo. Here's 15x>4K:

DKII-DX 2021-03-16 19-00-26-48.jpg
Filename
DKII-DX 2021-03-16 19-00-26-48.jpg
File size
651.89 KiB
Views
661 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

You can go pretty high on the resolution scale since this is a 30 FPS game, so performance isn't a huge issue.

Last edited by ZellSF on 2021-03-16, 18:44. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 47 of 71, by DosFreak

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For analyzing 32bit files with Dependency Walker use the 32bit version of Dependency Walker
SYSWOW64 is for 32bit files

Do you have alchemy or any other sound wrappers installed?
Can you switch o the audio driver windows uses when it doesn't have a vendor driver?

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 48 of 71, by ruthan

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I already made some experiments with resolutions.. with 1600x1200 there is not text in in game menus, so probably 1024x768 is last usable.
I tried to define others through reg keys, but expect resolution above i wasnt successful - for example 1920x1400 which is still 4:3 and best for my monitor is not working.
People on widescreen forums have similar results.. https://www.wsgf.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=19998
1280x800 working, 2048x1152 too.. but not 1600x1900 or 1440x1050 its quite picky.

On reddit is claim there is mentioned some widescreen fix for gog version:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dungeonkeeper/commen … run_widescreen/
But for me it only streched 4:3 to 16:9 and its not good for this game..

I have to try dgVoodoo, i never was big friend of forcing some other than ingame resolution, often it was mess and confusion and im not sure how it exactly working. Does it means that is internally rendered in 1024x768 and somehow scaled to bigger resolution? Its scalling algoritm so good that it helps?

Its there way how to make widescreen working?

BTW this game would really nice with some modern enhancement like, higher resolution, possibility to map zoom in / out on mouse wheel etc - i know that it could be done through some external key remmaper. Im also not sure about scrolling speed, i have it on minimal level and its quite quick, im not sure if working correctly, or it scale with too fast new cpus.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 49 of 71, by ZellSF

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ruthan wrote on 2021-03-16, 19:03:

I have to try dgVoodoo, i never was big friend of forcing some other than ingame resolution, often it was mess and confusion and im not sure how it exactly working. Does it means that is internally rendered in 1024x768 and somehow scaled to bigger resolution? Its scalling algoritm so good that it helps?

I posted a screenshot you can look at that should answer that question?

Reply 50 of 71, by ruthan

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As i wrote i already tried 32bit version of dependency walked, it was same.

Im not aware any sound wrappers.. I have only installed - Virtual audio cable, but already tried to disable it, it was the same. I could have installed, some things from other games, emulators, programs etc, who knows - i have hundreds of games installed - because its nice to have them ready to run. I thing that is just bad practice that game depend on some 3rd party optimal system dlls and dont include own..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 51 of 71, by DosFreak

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Sorry, the way I read it made it seem like you only tried the x86_64 ver of dependency walker.

My dream is to have all of my games installed and copied to my TrueNAS server of which I've gotten a lot done already over the years. One benefit among many others is that it is then very easy to find files. It would be interesting to know where that one came form.

Years ago I used to Altiris SVS or Vmware ThinApp to keep the system from being flooded with crap but it's easier and more compatible over time to just backup the installed game, then all you have to worry about is the installed files, registry and copy protection if you don't bother to crack it.

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 52 of 71, by ruthan

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Maybe once when space would not be issue would be every game sandboxed with own minimal version of operating system or something like that.. but there still would be some issue with OS upgrading, because its better upgrade 1 main OS than zillion of sandboxes / virtuals etc.. and because at least of security fixes there would be always fixes. I dont see there any silver bullet in near future.

Second half of 90 was wild time, transfer from old Dos to "modern" operating system architecture, lots coders was still stuck in old world.. werent able to thing about OS in more abstract way, complicated way. So lots of things was done wrong way and never fixed, i installed a lot of Win9x game demos in lots month and lots of them have even problem with such simple thing and longer directory name than 8 letters.

For me personally biggest problem of all this, is that most of full games where during the time somehow fixed, but not demos.. which present for me that was best in this era - 95% of games had nice free demo.. and i still thing that demos have bigger target audience than full games, because they are free.. but almost nobody is fixing them as full games.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 53 of 71, by kjliew

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You said you had the GoG version and the nice folks helped out and it is working whether through VM or native, what else could you complain? Do you really want to play GoG version or pristine retailed CD version patched?

The retailed CD version (1.51 and 1.70) max supported game resolution is 1024x768, (640x480 and 800x600 also available). The menu and FMV are always 640x480, only in-game will switch to the resolution selected in "Graphics Options". Scaling/stretching 4:3 to anything else will always be distorted unless the game supported it.

For such games, if you still consider the VM route, then you can have several scaling options in QEMU for modern play-in-windowed style.

  • Keep everything in 640x480 and scale from that, including menu, FMV at any 4:3 or any AR at distortion.
  • Keep the menu, FMV at 640x480 and scale in-game 800x600 or 1024x768 at any 4:3 or any AR at distortion.

It is a simple texture-2d scaling with or without filtering. Nothing will be lost.

Reply 54 of 71, by kjliew

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ruthan wrote on 2021-03-16, 20:04:

Maybe once when space would not be issue would be every game sandboxed with own minimal version of operating system or something like that.. but there still would be some issue with OS upgrading, because its better upgrade 1 main OS than zillion of sandboxes / virtuals etc.. and because at least of security fixes there would be always fixes. I dont see there any silver bullet in near future.

You just love to rant for non-sense. Who's ever going to update a dead, EOL last decade OSes such as Win98/ME/2K/XP? Well, if one insists on playing native for 20+ years old, unsupported games, then that is just one's own trouble creation. I only keep my main OSes updated, which are Windows 10 & ArchLinux. The games go on the VMs with peace of mind isolation. The silver bullet is already out there, you just turn a blind eye. Sure, I do reckon it is not as simple or straight-forward as DOSBox.

ruthan wrote on 2021-03-16, 20:04:

For me personally biggest problem of all this, is that most of full games where during the time somehow fixed, but not demos.. which present for me that was best in this era - 95% of games had nice free demo.. and i still thing that demos have bigger target audience than full games, because they are free.. but almost nobody is fixing them as full games.

You are really living in your utopian wonderland. Game design houses, studios come and go. The demos were meant to show the technology of the time in hope of boosting the sales of the upcoming games. What value could it bring for supporting the free demos for eternity? Once the franchises established (or failed), the demos were just nice to have (or out of sight). Mind you, even open-source does not mean support for eternity because the tools/libs to build them keep changing. The best solution is to snapshot and "freeze" the time. And, this is also what I do with old Windows games on VMs.

The game demos are actually easier for QEMU if they are all you care about because the demos almost always stripped off in-game FMVs. Interleaving in-game FMVs playback and 3D rendering could really post a challenge for OpenGL/WineD3D and there is no solution yet for VMR9 video renderer through D3D9 on QEMU.

Reply 55 of 71, by BEEN_Nath_58

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ruthan wrote on 2021-03-16, 19:03:
I already made some experiments with resolutions.. with 1600x1200 there is not text in in game menus, so probably 1024x768 is la […]
Show full quote

I already made some experiments with resolutions.. with 1600x1200 there is not text in in game menus, so probably 1024x768 is last usable.
I tried to define others through reg keys, but expect resolution above i wasnt successful - for example 1920x1400 which is still 4:3 and best for my monitor is not working.
People on widescreen forums have similar results.. https://www.wsgf.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=19998
1280x800 working, 2048x1152 too.. but not 1600x1900 or 1440x1050 its quite picky.

On reddit is claim there is mentioned some widescreen fix for gog version:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dungeonkeeper/commen … run_widescreen/
But for me it only streched 4:3 to 16:9 and its not good for this game..

I have to try dgVoodoo, i never was big friend of forcing some other than ingame resolution, often it was mess and confusion and im not sure how it exactly working. Does it means that is internally rendered in 1024x768 and somehow scaled to bigger resolution? Its scalling algoritm so good that it helps?

Its there way how to make widescreen working?

BTW this game would really nice with some modern enhancement like, higher resolution, possibility to map zoom in / out on mouse wheel etc - i know that it could be done through some external key remmaper. Im also not sure about scrolling speed, i have it on minimal level and its quite quick, im not sure if working correctly, or it scale with too fast new cpus.

The GoG version has its own D3D wrapper which keeps the game in the original aspect ratio. It keeps it at 4:3, unlike the original Microsoft DirecX which stretches it to 16:9. And also the resolutions set in the menu in-game do work and they don't look blocky at 1024x768 unlike in GoG DKII. The GoG D3D surely has some upscaling to the native monitor resolution(or any resolution) on top of 1024x768 that you chose.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 56 of 71, by ruthan

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@kjliew - I know you have to add your Qemu 3D advertising to every thread..

You just love to rant for non-sense. Who's ever going to update a dead, EOL last decade OSes such as Win98/ME/2K/XP? Well, if one insists on playing native for 20+ years old, unsupported games, then that is just one's own trouble creation.

Backwards compatibility is one of Windows worlds features and like it. That no more unsupported attitude is not something what i like, MS got more than enough money for me and others to keep as least backwards compatibility, without adding new features.. if would have to pay something extra for this service i will, not there is not such possibility. Its similar with Gog games, if game companies want to still make money from old games, they should at least keep them compatible with newer OSes..

Patches for demos - i dont meant demos updates not from original developers, but from community.. someone can argue than whole computer gaming is silly, or retro gaming is pointless.. or fixing old games is silly.. that there is not any real business in such community free thing.. For me all these things make sense, especially when from design perspective lots of old games are better than new games.. and they consumed much less manpower to develop.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 57 of 71, by BEEN_Nath_58

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ruthan wrote on 2021-03-17, 09:47:

MS got more than enough money for me and others to keep as least backwards compatibility, without adding new features.. if would have to pay something extra for this service i will, not there is not such possibility. Its similar with Gog games, if game companies want to still make money from old games, they should at least keep them compatible with newer OSes..

The problem isn't all with Microsoft. When Microsoft updated DirectX components, it had to make a lot of changes to make it compatible with newer versions(say for eg d3dim.dll). So in such cases, old games with older DirectX requirement may not work properly or not work at all. So to remedy this, wrappers like dgVoodoo2, aqrit's ddwrapper, DxWnd or DDrawCompat came into being. In the past backwards compatibility was poorer than what it is now, it improved now not only because of Microsoft's efforts but also because of these wrappers and also custom community fixes. MS has done a lot with its shims to keep the old games compatible with new version of Windows, and hardware manufacturers also contribute to this too. Just like we know Nvidia is better compatible with older games than AMD is, it doesn't mean Windows is the problem, but instead Nvidia is doing better with its drivers than AMD is.

And also there is user's accountability in ruining backward compatibility. Just like 'a3dapi.dll' in your SysWOW64 directory didn't allow DKII to run, there was no MS's part, hardware manufacturer's part or GoG's part in this thing. Some other game or software installed this wrapper which you didn't want. Now if Microsoft blocks 'a3dapi.dll' from being used in this game anymore, then in the future if any better A3D wrapper gets developed which should work with this game, won't work as Microsoft blocked it. GoG won't want to contact them everytime for "unblock a3dapi.dll for DKII" situations. If the 'a3dapi.dll' was something like a community provision, it will become more difficult for them to reach out to Microsoft.

Microsoft wants to keep it simple. They provide their best they can, although there is clearly room for improvement(for eg- winmm and d3drm). Its mostly apps, programs, modified registries, hardware wrappers, or even device drivers that mess things up. If these things modify the core of the OS or cause conflicts with other apps/components or unsupport a feature through their driver, then Microsoft can't help much with their Windows offerings.

Although what Microsoft can do is to make standards and initiatives to make backwards compatibility better, although this is only my idea.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 58 of 71, by ruthan

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In my view MS could still provide some old version of library for backwards compatibility -there are already some DirectX libabry versions(d3dx9_25,d3dx9_27 etc.. in standard package ) , i know that it cost money, but who else have more of them, than they.. It backward compatibility would be provided through some wrapper, or it could be.. but it could be developed by MS itself, when that incompatible change is made.. not later by community reverse engineering. Same with Dos compatibility layer, with XP / Win2000 MS could provide "own Dosbox" .. and Dosbox developers could actually made something else, some other great retro gaming tool.

I overall i thing that MS could make better job in lots of areas and they have resources for it. For example Win 10 updates should be priority.. and on my machines, so some reason it keeps trying installing some Vista upgrade (Visual Studio 2005 Services pack 1 update for Windows Vista) and it fails for 5 years with every update cycle.. i dont have VS 2005 installed is probably some wrong detection script.. because of some VS runtime registry key leftover , other users have same problem, every time when someone open some MS forum thread about it, you get generic update anything else and other hints... ask for some logs, you give them it.. and later no action and thread is closed.

Similar thing would is Windows 10 upgrade - i for example had to temporary delete or hide mi Linux, MacOS partition, because there is some all disc incompatible with next upgrade application scanning, is failing on other filesystems and upgrade is canceled.

They quite ignored PC gaming for long time and mainly cared about Xbox, made such failed project like Games for Windows Live API, DX10, which would kill other companies, but because their strong position they could afford that, same as Windows 10 UWP platform, which is very user unfriendly. How mad they were, was shown when they launched Win8 - tablet edition for everyone, or original Xbone online only with Kinect - TV watching box + some gaming.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 59 of 71, by ZellSF

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Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-03-17, 04:45:

unlike the original Microsoft DirecX which stretches it to 16:9.

It does not. Your display driver might, however.

The GOG scaler also has several options:
https://www.gog.com/forum/dungeon_keepe ... a_settings
I see no reason to use it over dgVoodoo though.