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First post, by joeguy3121

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I'm very stupid with computers so please watch this video I made of what the computer does when I power it on and look at the condition of the motherboard and it's LED lights to try to identify what the problem is and if you have a fix for it, please tell me. 😟

The motherboard is a MSI MS-6153 VER:2.1

Last edited by joeguy3121 on 2022-09-08, 11:42. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 40, by zyga64

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If the diagnostic LEDs on each MSI board have the same meaning, this table may be useful.
I didn't find it in MS-6153 manual on MSI webpage (probably because it is for ver:1.0 of the board).

green-red-green-red (1-0-1-0) is Test shadow memory.

What I would do:
1. remove all cards except graphics card
2. clear CMOS settings by jumper
3. test with only 1 memory stick in (in 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd slot). Repeat for all three memory sticks
4. try another graphics card (AGP, PCI, ISA).

Attachments

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4MB /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16MB /TGUI9440 /YMF718+GUS
3) i440BX /P!!!750 /256MB /MX440 /SBLive!+Vibra16s

Reply 2 of 40, by joeguy3121

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zyga64 wrote on 2022-09-08, 10:22:
If the diagnostic LEDs on each MSI board have the same meaning, this table may be useful. I didn't find it in MS-6153 manual on […]
Show full quote

If the diagnostic LEDs on each MSI board have the same meaning, this table may be useful.
I didn't find it in MS-6153 manual on MSI webpage (probably because it is for ver:1.0 of the board).

green-red-green-red (1-0-1-0) is Test shadow memory.

What I would do:
1. remove all cards except graphics card
2. clear CMOS settings by jumper
3. test with only 1 memory stick in (in 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd slot). Repeat for all three memory sticks
4. try another graphics card (AGP, PCI, ISA).

clear CMOS settings by jumper? how do i do that?

Reply 3 of 40, by zyga64

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everything is in manual 😀

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  • clear_cmos.png
    Filename
    clear_cmos.png
    File size
    62.07 KiB
    Views
    402 views
    File license
    Public domain

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4MB /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16MB /TGUI9440 /YMF718+GUS
3) i440BX /P!!!750 /256MB /MX440 /SBLive!+Vibra16s

Reply 4 of 40, by joeguy3121

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zyga64 wrote on 2022-09-08, 10:22:
If the diagnostic LEDs on each MSI board have the same meaning, this table may be useful. I didn't find it in MS-6153 manual on […]
Show full quote

If the diagnostic LEDs on each MSI board have the same meaning, this table may be useful.
I didn't find it in MS-6153 manual on MSI webpage (probably because it is for ver:1.0 of the board).

green-red-green-red (1-0-1-0) is Test shadow memory.

What I would do:
1. remove all cards except graphics card
2. clear CMOS settings by jumper
3. test with only 1 memory stick in (in 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd slot). Repeat for all three memory sticks
4. try another graphics card (AGP, PCI, ISA).

Did every step and no luck. 😭

I only get a breif post of the boot screen before it shuts down, see the photo if the numbers are right with the power and battery.

20220830_225549.jpg
Filename
20220830_225549.jpg
File size
611.75 KiB
Views
380 views
File license
Public domain

Also I forgot I have the pdf manual of the MS-6153 ver 2 stored on the driver CD that was included with the pre-built PC. 😂
I add them here in case you still need the manual.

Filename
6153via-1.pdf
File size
34.72 KiB
Downloads
9 downloads
File license
Public domain
Filename
6153via-2.pdf
File size
334.32 KiB
Downloads
7 downloads
File license
Public domain
Filename
6153via-3.pdf
File size
99.22 KiB
Downloads
7 downloads
File license
Public domain
Last edited by joeguy3121 on 2022-09-08, 21:27. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 5 of 40, by Namrok

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I'd be more immediately worried about the psu. Is it known good? Is it newer or older? If its older, is the input voltage correctly set?

Win95/DOS 7.1 - P233 MMX (@2.5 x 100 FSB), Diamond Viper V330 AGP, SB16 CT2800
Win98 - K6-2+ 500, GF2 MX, SB AWE 64 CT4500, SBLive CT4780
Win98 - Pentium III 1000, GF2 GTS, SBLive CT4760
WinXP - Athlon 64 3200+, GF 7800 GS, Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 6 of 40, by joeguy3121

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Namrok wrote on 2022-09-08, 21:24:

I'd be more immediately worried about the psu. Is it known good? Is it newer or older? If its older, is the input voltage correctly set?

I was thinking that the PSU which is older ie period corrected from the Win 98 era (don't know when it came out as I didn't build the PC) might be the cause and was considering replacing it with a modern PSU.

I have no clue what input voltage is but this occured when I was in the BIO settings trying to undo the possible mistakes the computer repair service did when I took the PC in to fix a previous issue it had which was no post when booting up after I attempted to upgrade it's CPU. What I did was and the only thing I did in BIOS was ran IDE HDD auto detection due to the CD drive being reassigned incorrectly as IDE Primary Master instead of IDE Secondary Master.

Reply 7 of 40, by darry

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A 400MHz Celeron should run at 2.0 volts. 2.6 volts seems a bit high, as in 30% higher than nominal. I haven't checked the datasheet to see if that is "tolerable", but it definitely won't help thermals and may impact stability as a result.

Also, the CMOS battery is dead .

Finally, and possibly most importantly, 5.0V, 12V, -12V and -5.0V are all out of range . Granted motherboard monitors (especially on consumer boards of that vintage) are not always reliable, so testing with a multimeter while the system is running (careful not to accidentally short something) is a good idea .

Reply 8 of 40, by joeguy3121

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darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 21:57:

A 400MHz Celeron should run at 2.0 volts. 2.6 volts seems a bit high, as in 30% higher than nominal. I haven't checked the datasheet to see if that is "tolerable", but it definitely won't help thermals and may impact stability as a result.

Also, the CMOS battery is dead .

Finally, and possibly most importantly, 5.0V, 12V, -12V and -5.0V are all out of range . Granted motherboard monitors (especially on consumer boards of that vintage) are not always reliable, so testing with a multimeter while the system is running (careful not to accidentally short something) is a good idea .

I tried replacing the CMOS battery with one from the original motherboard of the same model that came with the prebuilt-PC (got a exact replacement that's currently installed due to the original one going bad) and it didn't work.

How do I tone down the volts?

Reply 10 of 40, by joeguy3121

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dondiego wrote on 2022-09-08, 22:33:

That clear CMOS thing didn't make sense. PSU is bad, replace it. May be the motherboard too.

I sticking with the motherboard that I already replaced. Replacement PSU that's modern so nothing would go wrong (hopefully) might be a go.

Reply 11 of 40, by darry

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joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 22:27:
darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 21:57:

A 400MHz Celeron should run at 2.0 volts. 2.6 volts seems a bit high, as in 30% higher than nominal. I haven't checked the datasheet to see if that is "tolerable", but it definitely won't help thermals and may impact stability as a result.

Also, the CMOS battery is dead .

Finally, and possibly most importantly, 5.0V, 12V, -12V and -5.0V are all out of range . Granted motherboard monitors (especially on consumer boards of that vintage) are not always reliable, so testing with a multimeter while the system is running (careful not to accidentally short something) is a good idea .

I tried replacing the CMOS battery with one from the original motherboard of the same model that came with the prebuilt-PC (got a exact replacement that's currently installed due to the original one going bad) and it didn't work.

How do I tone down the volts?

The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). I don't believe it is causing the shutdown issue, but wanted to point that out as as something to eventually address.

As for the PSU voltages, first you should consider measuring them with something you can trust, like a multimeter. Then, if actually needed (multimeter confirms that voltages are off), you can consider what to do. Some PSUs apparently have trimpots to adjust voltage. Even if yours does, that does not mean you should try adjusting anything, as

a) if you don't know what you are doing, you could be risking your life
b) you may not be able to get a given rail into spec without affecting others
c) your current setup might not be loading the PSU enough for it to regulate its outputs properly
d) A measured average DC voltage does not tell the whole story. The PSU could be generating extreme ripple due to crappy design and/or degraded capacitors while still appearing mostly in-spec to a garden variety non RMS multimeter . Such issues can cause instability and damage hardware.

Please share the brand and model number of the supply. It may turn out to be worth testing and possibly having it refurbished, or it may be pointless.

Also, please share clear photos of the motherboard, or at least visually inspect the capacitors for signs of bulging and/or leakage. This can also cause instabilities.

Reply 12 of 40, by darry

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joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:03:
dondiego wrote on 2022-09-08, 22:33:

That clear CMOS thing didn't make sense. PSU is bad, replace it. May be the motherboard too.

I sticking with the motherboard that I already replaced. Replacement PSU that's modern so nothing would go wrong (hopefully) might be a go.

What modern PSU brand model will you be using ? Will it be new ?

Reply 13 of 40, by joeguy3121

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darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:05:
The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). […]
Show full quote
joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 22:27:
darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 21:57:

A 400MHz Celeron should run at 2.0 volts. 2.6 volts seems a bit high, as in 30% higher than nominal. I haven't checked the datasheet to see if that is "tolerable", but it definitely won't help thermals and may impact stability as a result.

Also, the CMOS battery is dead .

Finally, and possibly most importantly, 5.0V, 12V, -12V and -5.0V are all out of range . Granted motherboard monitors (especially on consumer boards of that vintage) are not always reliable, so testing with a multimeter while the system is running (careful not to accidentally short something) is a good idea .

I tried replacing the CMOS battery with one from the original motherboard of the same model that came with the prebuilt-PC (got a exact replacement that's currently installed due to the original one going bad) and it didn't work.

How do I tone down the volts?

The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). I don't believe it is causing the shutdown issue, but wanted to point that out as as something to eventually address.

As for the PSU voltages, first you should consider measuring them with something you can trust, like a multimeter. Then, if actually needed (multimeter confirms that voltages are off), you can consider what to do. Some PSUs apparently have trimpots to adjust voltage. Even if yours does, that does not mean you should try adjusting anything, as

a) if you don't know what you are doing, you could be risking your life
b) you may not be able to get a given rail into spec without affecting others
c) your current setup might not be loading the PSU enough for it to regulate its outputs properly
d) A measured average DC voltage does not tell the whole story. The PSU could be generating extreme ripple due to crappy design and/or degraded capacitors while still appearing mostly in-spec to a garden variety non RMS multimeter . Such issues can cause instability and damage hardware.

Please share the brand and model number of the supply. It may turn out to be worth testing and possibly having it refurbished, or it may be pointless.

Also, please share clear photos of the motherboard, or at least visually inspect the capacitors for signs of bulging and/or leakage. This can also cause instabilities.

My video has a complete view of the motherboard close up. Watch it to see if you can spot anymore wrongs since I'm that stupid.

Reply 14 of 40, by joeguy3121

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darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:06:
joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:03:
dondiego wrote on 2022-09-08, 22:33:

That clear CMOS thing didn't make sense. PSU is bad, replace it. May be the motherboard too.

I sticking with the motherboard that I already replaced. Replacement PSU that's modern so nothing would go wrong (hopefully) might be a go.

What modern PSU brand model will you be using ? Will it be new ?

Sort of. It would be a EVGA 450 BT from 4 years ago. This guy used it for his build and that's where I got the idea of using a modern PSU and will use the model Tech Tangents used just to be sure it would actually work.

Reply 15 of 40, by joeguy3121

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darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:05:
The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). […]
Show full quote
joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 22:27:
darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 21:57:

A 400MHz Celeron should run at 2.0 volts. 2.6 volts seems a bit high, as in 30% higher than nominal. I haven't checked the datasheet to see if that is "tolerable", but it definitely won't help thermals and may impact stability as a result.

Also, the CMOS battery is dead .

Finally, and possibly most importantly, 5.0V, 12V, -12V and -5.0V are all out of range . Granted motherboard monitors (especially on consumer boards of that vintage) are not always reliable, so testing with a multimeter while the system is running (careful not to accidentally short something) is a good idea .

I tried replacing the CMOS battery with one from the original motherboard of the same model that came with the prebuilt-PC (got a exact replacement that's currently installed due to the original one going bad) and it didn't work.

How do I tone down the volts?

The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). I don't believe it is causing the shutdown issue, but wanted to point that out as as something to eventually address.

As for the PSU voltages, first you should consider measuring them with something you can trust, like a multimeter. Then, if actually needed (multimeter confirms that voltages are off), you can consider what to do. Some PSUs apparently have trimpots to adjust voltage. Even if yours does, that does not mean you should try adjusting anything, as

a) if you don't know what you are doing, you could be risking your life
b) you may not be able to get a given rail into spec without affecting others
c) your current setup might not be loading the PSU enough for it to regulate its outputs properly
d) A measured average DC voltage does not tell the whole story. The PSU could be generating extreme ripple due to crappy design and/or degraded capacitors while still appearing mostly in-spec to a garden variety non RMS multimeter . Such issues can cause instability and damage hardware.

Please share the brand and model number of the supply. It may turn out to be worth testing and possibly having it refurbished, or it may be pointless.

Also, please share clear photos of the motherboard, or at least visually inspect the capacitors for signs of bulging and/or leakage. This can also cause instabilities.

This is the PSU that was included with the built.

20220908_162715.jpg
Filename
20220908_162715.jpg
File size
1012 KiB
Views
298 views
File license
Public domain

Reply 16 of 40, by darry

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joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:30:
darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:05:
The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). […]
Show full quote
joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 22:27:

I tried replacing the CMOS battery with one from the original motherboard of the same model that came with the prebuilt-PC (got a exact replacement that's currently installed due to the original one going bad) and it didn't work.

How do I tone down the volts?

The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). I don't believe it is causing the shutdown issue, but wanted to point that out as as something to eventually address.

As for the PSU voltages, first you should consider measuring them with something you can trust, like a multimeter. Then, if actually needed (multimeter confirms that voltages are off), you can consider what to do. Some PSUs apparently have trimpots to adjust voltage. Even if yours does, that does not mean you should try adjusting anything, as

a) if you don't know what you are doing, you could be risking your life
b) you may not be able to get a given rail into spec without affecting others
c) your current setup might not be loading the PSU enough for it to regulate its outputs properly
d) A measured average DC voltage does not tell the whole story. The PSU could be generating extreme ripple due to crappy design and/or degraded capacitors while still appearing mostly in-spec to a garden variety non RMS multimeter . Such issues can cause instability and damage hardware.

Please share the brand and model number of the supply. It may turn out to be worth testing and possibly having it refurbished, or it may be pointless.

Also, please share clear photos of the motherboard, or at least visually inspect the capacitors for signs of bulging and/or leakage. This can also cause instabilities.

This is the PSU that was included with the built.
20220908_162715.jpg

The video isn't clear enough to evaluate the visual condition of the capacitors with any degree of confidence .

I wouldn't have been enticed by that L&C PSU when it was new . In its used/worn state, I wouldn't touch it with somebody else's ten foot pole. In the hands of someone with proper knowledge , skills and test equipment it could probably be made into something usable and safe, but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort. See [1] for some opinions and test results .

[1]
Re: A tale of two PSUs
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50041
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/power/rk-psu11.html

Reply 17 of 40, by darry

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joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:21:
darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:06:
joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:03:

I sticking with the motherboard that I already replaced. Replacement PSU that's modern so nothing would go wrong (hopefully) might be a go.

What modern PSU brand model will you be using ? Will it be new ?

Sort of. It would be a EVGA 450 BT from 4 years ago. This guy used it for his build and that's where I got the idea of using a modern PSU and will use the model Tech Tangents used just to be sure it would actually work.

Well, it was apparently very affordable (was 25$ to 40$ when new) and didn't review disastrously [1]. On the plus side, it seems to be OK at handling mainly 5V loads.
So assuming it is still in working order and in-spec, it should be a lot better than your original one .

[1]
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-450 … e-psu,5605.html
https://www.overclock.net/threads/why-you-sho … -bt450.1715802/
https://web.archive.org/web/20190724102211/ht … w-power-supply/

Reply 18 of 40, by joeguy3121

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darry wrote on 2022-09-09, 04:32:
Well, it was apparently very affordable (was 25$ to 40$ when new) and didn't review disastrously [1]. On the plus side, it seem […]
Show full quote
joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:21:
darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:06:

What modern PSU brand model will you be using ? Will it be new ?

Sort of. It would be a EVGA 450 BT from 4 years ago. This guy used it for his build and that's where I got the idea of using a modern PSU and will use the model Tech Tangents used just to be sure it would actually work.

Well, it was apparently very affordable (was 25$ to 40$ when new) and didn't review disastrously [1]. On the plus side, it seems to be OK at handling mainly 5V loads.
So assuming it is still in working order and in-spec, it should be a lot better than your original one .

[1]
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-450 … e-psu,5605.html
https://www.overclock.net/threads/why-you-sho … -bt450.1715802/
https://web.archive.org/web/20190724102211/ht … w-power-supply/

Here are clear close up images of the capacitors, they all look fine to me but what do I know? 😋

20220908_224239.jpg
Filename
20220908_224239.jpg
File size
1.9 MiB
Views
254 views
File license
Public domain
20220908_224247.jpg
Filename
20220908_224247.jpg
File size
1.41 MiB
Views
254 views
File license
Public domain
20220908_224300.jpg
Filename
20220908_224300.jpg
File size
1.69 MiB
Views
254 views
File license
Public domain
20220908_224318.jpg
Filename
20220908_224318.jpg
File size
1.2 MiB
Views
254 views
File license
Public domain

Reply 19 of 40, by joeguy3121

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darry wrote on 2022-09-09, 04:19:
The video isn't clear enough to evaluate the visual condition of the capacitors with any degree of confidence . […]
Show full quote
joeguy3121 wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:30:
darry wrote on 2022-09-08, 23:05:
The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). […]
Show full quote

The battery from another board of this vintage will probably also be dead (unless it was changed less than 10 or so years ago). I don't believe it is causing the shutdown issue, but wanted to point that out as as something to eventually address.

As for the PSU voltages, first you should consider measuring them with something you can trust, like a multimeter. Then, if actually needed (multimeter confirms that voltages are off), you can consider what to do. Some PSUs apparently have trimpots to adjust voltage. Even if yours does, that does not mean you should try adjusting anything, as

a) if you don't know what you are doing, you could be risking your life
b) you may not be able to get a given rail into spec without affecting others
c) your current setup might not be loading the PSU enough for it to regulate its outputs properly
d) A measured average DC voltage does not tell the whole story. The PSU could be generating extreme ripple due to crappy design and/or degraded capacitors while still appearing mostly in-spec to a garden variety non RMS multimeter . Such issues can cause instability and damage hardware.

Please share the brand and model number of the supply. It may turn out to be worth testing and possibly having it refurbished, or it may be pointless.

Also, please share clear photos of the motherboard, or at least visually inspect the capacitors for signs of bulging and/or leakage. This can also cause instabilities.

This is the PSU that was included with the built.
20220908_162715.jpg

The video isn't clear enough to evaluate the visual condition of the capacitors with any degree of confidence .

I wouldn't have been enticed by that L&C PSU when it was new . In its used/worn state, I wouldn't touch it with somebody else's ten foot pole. In the hands of someone with proper knowledge , skills and test equipment it could probably be made into something usable and safe, but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort. See [1] for some opinions and test results .

[1]
Re: A tale of two PSUs
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50041
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/power/rk-psu11.html

Of course, I'm no tech savage so I guess I'll press forward in snagging me a EVGA 450 BT.