Windows NT4 VM ideas

Emulation of old PCs, PC hardware, or PC peripherals.

Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-10-05 @ 02:42

(Technically not emulation, but it's close enough)

I've been thinking of setting up a couple NT4 servers in a VM and having them connected in a domain (BTW, I've never set-up a domain before). My question is, what fun things can be done with a set-up like this and which software (on Windows 7) provides the best support for virtualizing NT 4?
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby gca » 2017-10-05 @ 13:59

Virtualbox has support for NT4 and will work just fine hosting NT4 server and workstation (I tried it a while back, worked just fine) but you will need SP6 on hand because its required to install Virtualbox guest add-ons. And remember to set the networking to Internal network so the VMs are just talking among themselves rather than venturing out into the real world which is not a good thing for any NT4 box (be it virtual or otherwise) to be doing these days.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-10-05 @ 20:09

gca wrote:Virtualbox has support for NT4 and will work just fine hosting NT4 server and workstation (I tried it a while back, worked just fine) but you will need SP6 on hand because its required to install Virtualbox guest add-ons. And remember to set the networking to Internal network so the VMs are just talking among themselves rather than venturing out into the real world which is not a good thing for any NT4 box (be it virtual or otherwise) to be doing these days.


okay thanks. Any good ideas of fun things to try in this set-up?
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby gca » 2017-10-05 @ 22:19

Not sure about what you class as fun, but after the basics of DHCP, DNS, user accounts and adding a client or two are set up you could try:

Setting up a web site using IIS (yeah, I know it will never be accessible on the real internet but its an interesting experiment).
Remote boot.
MAC services (I think I did try that one so my old G3 could come play as well).

Less fun but necessary sometimes: Roaming profiles which is useful to know even for modern servers.

Sadly older versions of server like NT4 come with fewer cool toys out of the box when compared to its modern counterparts. So the number of fun things is limited.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-10-07 @ 18:57

gca wrote:Not sure about what you class as fun, but after the basics of DHCP, DNS, user accounts and adding a client or two are set up you could try:

Setting up a web site using IIS (yeah, I know it will never be accessible on the real internet but its an interesting experiment).
Remote boot.
MAC services (I think I did try that one so my old G3 could come play as well).

Less fun but necessary sometimes: Roaming profiles which is useful to know even for modern servers.

Sadly older versions of server like NT4 come with fewer cool toys out of the box when compared to its modern counterparts. So the number of fun things is limited.


I see. I don't know anything about setting up DHCP/DNS or anything about roaming profiles.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby gca » 2017-10-07 @ 21:24

Well, DHCP & DNS are the most basic functions a server has allocating IP addresses and associate those addresses with machine names. Roaming profiles are not really necessary but they are nice to know about. But basic user accounts, yeah you will need one of those unless you want to run as administrator all the time (NOT in any way recommended, even if you are just working on a hobby VM. Not running as administrator all the time is a good habit to get into). Here, maybe these will help:

http://www.digitalissues.co.uk/html/os/ ... n_nt4.html

http://www.garykessler.net/library/dhcp.html

Compared to newer servers (like 03 or higher (can't vouch for 2k, never worked on one)) NT4 server is a lot more hands on to configure and does not do anywhere near as much hand holding or helping you along the way. Which is better in a way for someone new to servers because it forces you to think about what you are doing rather than blindly following wizards and just clicking Next now and then.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-10-09 @ 01:34

gca wrote:Compared to newer servers (like 03 or higher (can't vouch for 2k, never worked on one)) NT4 server is a lot more hands on to configure and does not do anywhere near as much hand holding or helping you along the way. Which is better in a way for someone new to servers because it forces you to think about what you are doing rather than blindly following wizards and just clicking Next now and then.


I see, thanks for your responses.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby gca » 2017-10-09 @ 18:09

Okay I had a slow day so I threw together a few short(ish) tutorials that might make things a little cleared on the DHCP and DNS front. At least you will get a better feel for what you are up against. Note these haven't been proof read or looked at by anyone who hasn't had hands on experience with a server so don't be surprised if there is a typo or two in there. I recommend you read them in the order below. Also, you will need to be running as administrator for this stuff as its all admin related. If the links below don't work let me know:

Basic server network card configuration: https://www.dropbox.com/s/99k8lzl1ckiek ... g.pdf?dl=0

Basic DHCP configuration: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ddujeye0kd4l ... p.pdf?dl=0

Basic DNS configuration: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bby2wv34vo2g ... g.pdf?dl=0

Hope these help.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-10-12 @ 02:00

gca wrote:Okay I had a slow day so I threw together a few short(ish) tutorials that might make things a little cleared on the DHCP and DNS front. At least you will get a better feel for what you are up against. Note these haven't been proof read or looked at by anyone who hasn't had hands on experience with a server so don't be surprised if there is a typo or two in there. I recommend you read them in the order below. Also, you will need to be running as administrator for this stuff as its all admin related. If the links below don't work let me know:

Basic server network card configuration: https://www.dropbox.com/s/99k8lzl1ckiek ... g.pdf?dl=0

Basic DHCP configuration: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ddujeye0kd4l ... p.pdf?dl=0

Basic DNS configuration: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bby2wv34vo2g ... g.pdf?dl=0

Hope these help.


thanks, I'll check them out

EDIT: third link is broken.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby gca » 2017-10-12 @ 11:30

Third link looks ok on my end (used a different machine and os to my original post to verify it was working) but I'll post it again anyway just in case:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bby2wv34vo2g ... g.pdf?dl=0
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby chinny22 » 2017-10-12 @ 15:34

NT4 predates active directory so is quite different to Windows 2000 and above, but messing round with User accounts and setting up folder permissions can be kinda fun.
It was pretty common back then to have NT4 server with WIn9x clients so don't forget to add a few of those to the domain, You can even add Windows for workgroup machines as well.
If you have 2 servers you can play around with promoting and demoting the PDC and BDC,

I also had Backoffice 4.5 in the early 2000's included in this is Exchange 5.5 if you want to play with email server but what was actually useful at the time was MS Proxy, which allowed me share my internet (in my case Dial up connection with all my PC's.
Of course no need for a server to do that today but still pretty cool
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby DosFreak » 2017-10-12 @ 15:58

You can play around with VLANS with GNS3 and NT4
https://virtuallyfun.com/2017/10/11/vlan-part-1/

or play DOS games with DOSBox:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=55706&p=619113#p609435
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-10-14 @ 03:59

gca wrote:Third link looks ok on my end (used a different machine and os to my original post to verify it was working) but I'll post it again anyway just in case:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bby2wv34vo2g ... g.pdf?dl=0


thanks, it works now

chinny22 wrote:NT4 predates active directory so is quite different to Windows 2000 and above, but messing round with User accounts and setting up folder permissions can be kinda fun.
It was pretty common back then to have NT4 server with WIn9x clients so don't forget to add a few of those to the domain, You can even add Windows for workgroup machines as well.
If you have 2 servers you can play around with promoting and demoting the PDC and BDC,


I'll keep that in mind, but my PC is not very good. What is the difference between the PDC and BDC?

chinny22 wrote:I also had Backoffice 4.5 in the early 2000's included in this is Exchange 5.5 if you want to play with email server but what was actually useful at the time was MS Proxy, which allowed me share my internet (in my case Dial up connection with all my PC's.
Of course no need for a server to do that today but still pretty cool


I'll have to be on the look out for disc ima... i mean physical discs of Backoffice

DosFreak wrote:You can play around with VLANS with GNS3 and NT4
https://virtuallyfun.com/2017/10/11/vlan-part-1/


True and I have thought about that following that guide

DosFreak wrote:or play DOS games with DOSBox:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... 13#p609435


why is there link to the compilation thread? doesn't doesn't dosbox run on NT4? I remember seeing dosbox run on Windows 95, so why not NT4?
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby DosFreak » 2017-10-14 @ 09:06

0.74 works on 95,NT4+. My build is the latest SVN which works on NT3.51+.
Most of the compiled SVN vers that you find for download will only work on XP+.

May have just found an issue with the newer GCC versions an older CPUs so tracking that down.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby gca » 2017-10-14 @ 20:15

The BDC (Backup Domain Controller) is a carbon copy of the PDC (Primary Domain Controller). Its purpose is to take over in the event of the PDC going down for whatever reason thus allowing for 100% (or as close to that as you can get) up time for client machines. So in the event of PDC failure (if all goes according to plan) the end user should be oblivious to the failure taking place.

The BDC can also take some of the load off the PDC by way of load balancing to help improve performance.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby retrogamerguy1997 » 2017-10-16 @ 21:29

gca wrote:The BDC (Backup Domain Controller) is a carbon copy of the PDC (Primary Domain Controller). Its purpose is to take over in the event of the PDC going down for whatever reason thus allowing for 100% (or as close to that as you can get) up time for client machines. So in the event of PDC failure (if all goes according to plan) the end user should be oblivious to the failure taking place.

The BDC can also take some of the load off the PDC by way of load balancing to help improve performance.


So how do i configure something to be the BDC?

DosFreak wrote:0.74 works on 95,NT4+. My build is the latest SVN which works on NT3.51+.
Most of the compiled SVN vers that you find for download will only work on XP+.

May have just found an issue with the newer GCC versions an older CPUs so tracking that down.


okay
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby gca » 2017-10-16 @ 22:22

When you install NT4 server you are asked if you are installing the new machine as a PDC, BDC or Standalone Server (which is neither just to keep things nice and confusing :D) so just select the appropriate check-box during installation for the role you want the server to fulfil. Remember to set up the PDC first and have it up and running before installing the BDC.
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Re: Windows NT4 VM ideas

Postby chinny22 » 2017-10-19 @ 15:32

gca explains it well.
Once its up and running you can then pretend the PDC has crashed, (just shut it down) see how well your client PC's are able to logon, and promote it up to PDC.
Its all just messing round for the sake of it, but something administrators dreaded back in the day!
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