Xeen and Roland synths

Emulation of old PCs, PC hardware, or PC peripherals.

Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby TURRICAN0 » 2011-9-25 @ 17:08

HunterZ wrote:TURRICAN0:

Thanks for sharing that info and DOSBox patch! I put down Xeen not long after last posting in this thread because it was a bit too cheesy to keep me interested, but it's good to know what's going on and that there's a workaround available thanks to your efforts.

I would also guess that the DOSBox developers would not be interested in incorporating the patch, but there is a healthy community of DOSBox users who like to incorporate unofficial patches into unofficial builds. I'm sure your efforts will be appreciated by people one way or another.


Well, it's already appreciated by other people, here : http://queststudios.com/smf/index.php?topic=2483.0


robertmo wrote:TURRICAN0, Munt emulates cm32-l/lapc-i perfectly so no need for your patch :)
(you can test that in latest ykhwong's dosbox build)


Jan3Sobieski wrote:So for the sake of argument, will any of these external Roland devices play World of Xeen correctly at default with all correct sounds present? I mean with no modifications?

1. MT-32 1st gen
2. MT-32 2nd gen
3. SC-55
4. SC-55MKII
5. CM-32L
6. CM-64
7. CM-300
8. CM-500


Both "Might and Magic IV : Clouds of Xeen" and "Might and Magic V : Darkside of Xeen" (= "Might and Magic : World of Xeen") are meant to be played (and then work fine) with the original Roland Sound Canvas SC-55/SCC-1, and with any other Sound Canvas product based on it, like the SC-155, CM-300 and CM-500 (in GS mode of course).

These games make use of many instruments that the MT-32 based synthesizers don't have, one of the most noticeable being the Choir : if these games also have MT-32/CM-32L/LAPC-I support, it's for the same obvious reason that they also have FM synthesis (OPL2/OPL3) support too.

However, the prequel, called "Might and Magic III : Isles of Terra", is a game meant to be played with the MT-32, or rather the CM-32L/LAPC-I : it makes heavy use of most of the extra sound effects, like the Footsteps, Punch, Thunder, Stream, Bubble, Heartbeat, Screaming ... in fact, unlike the 2 sequels, it doesn't play any digitized sound effect at all with the Sound Blaster cards.
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby tikalat » 2013-5-07 @ 16:37

Made ips patch from TURRICAN0's info. Can be used with MM4 + MM5 (standalone or world xeen).

Not fully tested. Haven't done Swords of Xeen.
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world of xeen - roland midi fix.7z
mm4 + mm5 rolan midi fix
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby robertmo » 2013-5-08 @ 05:28

Why games meant to be played on sc-55/scc-1 use instrument variations which don't exist on those modules? Developers bug they didn't care about as it worked correctly? or music was actually written for some other module?
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby HunterZ » 2013-5-08 @ 15:43

robertmo wrote:Why games meant to be played on sc-55/scc-1 use instrument variations which don't exist on those modules? Developers bug they didn't care about as it worked correctly? or music was actually written for some other module?

If I understand correctly, it does play as intended on first-generation SC-55, but only because they were depending on an anachronism of its design to avoid having to send Bank Select events to switch from using a non-capital instrument A to a capital instrument B.

Unfortunately the fallback behavior is different/absent in later SC synths, causing the music to play back improperly without those Bank Select events being present.

What I don't understand is why a Program Change without a Bank Select wouldn't implicitly result in selection of Bank 0. Why would you even want to switch between instruments/programs within the same bank? Most of the bank numbers have unique meanings for each instrument.
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby KainXVIII » 2015-6-25 @ 09:26

So the way its meant to be played (if you can't use real soundcard) in dosbox is to use virtual sound canvas? Or some soundfont (which?) for bassmidi? Or even cm-32l emulation through munt?
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby HunterZ » 2015-6-25 @ 14:24

Best option is probably CM-32L via Munt.
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby KainXVIII » 2015-6-25 @ 14:44

HunterZ wrote:Best option is probably CM-32L via Munt.

Thanks!
Too bad it will sounds not as cool as in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n4U-mZ-uho
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby lordskylark » 2018-11-23 @ 04:48

I know this is a very old post. But I do have contacts with some of the game's creators, specifically with the music composers. All of the music for Xeen (with an exception of the alternate Sound Canvas versions) were made for MT-32 NOT SC-55. So the MT-32 version of the soundtrack is the version that the original composers composed. It was later adapted into an enhanced Roland Canvas version by some programmer who was NOT the original composer. (You can see some relics of this too, such as in "outday4" where the MT-32 instrument is a "timpani", but the SC-55 instrument is "tinker bell". They are the same midi channel, but the ROland Enchancer did not change the SC-55 version to the proper "timpani".) I think the SC-55 versions overall sound better, but they are not how the music was originally intended. And Darkside has much more problems with the SC-55 version than the MT-32 does. The main problem is that SC-55 only has 24 polysnyth, whereas MT-32 has 32 polysnyth. So many of the notes keep dropping out due to this polysnyth problem. (It actually doesn't have much (if at all) to do with capital tones when dealing with the music.) And because they were originally MT-32 midis, merely with the instruments changed for the SC-55 version, some of the SC-55 instruments are not entirely properly balanced. The SC-55 versions of Clouds seem to be nearly perfect, but Darkside are not. But Todd Hendrix did the sound programming for Clouds and Mike Heileman (or something) did it for Darkside. And Todd definitely did a much better job.
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby HunterZ » 2018-11-23 @ 05:58

lordskylark: Thanks for the info. It's odd that you mention the MT-32 rather than the CM-32L, though, as it appears that the games take special advantage of the latter.
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby lordskylark » 2018-11-23 @ 06:58

The music for MM3 (most), MM4 (all), MM5 (most) and Planet's Edge (50%) were all done by Tim Tully and his friends, even though he is not credited in MM3. George Sanger did the title theme for MM3 and Planet's Edge. I have no idea who did the rest. Both of them composed using MT-32 (I am in personal contact with both of them). It is possible that the game itself was designed for CM-32L, even though the music was composed on MT-32 (except for the alternate Canvas version of the MM4 and MM5 Openeing -- those were designed for SC-55 by Tim Tully -- someone else, probably the sound programmers designs the Canvas versions for the rest of the music).

There is also a strange programming error with all of those four games. The programmer of .M music format used in those games, made a programming error. So ALL of the music tracks play 2 semitones lower than the original compositions as composed.
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby KainXVIII » 2018-11-23 @ 08:30

One day maybe we will play M&M games with intended music (dare to dream!)
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby lordskylark » 2018-11-23 @ 09:09

I purchased an MT-32 (new -- must use to avoid buffer error, and quieter for sound quality) and SC-55 (original make ROM 1.20) to record the music from MM3~5 in order to preserve it properly. I'll be doing both the MT-32 and SC-55 soundtracks. I am also going to be recording each instrument channel completely separately, in order to avoid all polysynth problems, and then combine them into one file. At the moment, I will plan to upload it to youtube when I am finished.
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby KainXVIII » 2018-11-23 @ 09:34

lordskylark wrote:I purchased an MT-32 (new -- must use to avoid buffer error, and quieter for sound quality) and SC-55 (original make ROM 1.20) to record the music from MM3~5 in order to preserve it properly. I'll be doing both the MT-32 and SC-55 soundtracks. I am also going to be recording each instrument channel completely separately, in order to avoid all polysynth problems, and then combine them into one file. At the moment, I will plan to upload it to youtube when I am finished.

Thanks, looking forward to hear it!
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby lordskylark » 2018-11-27 @ 11:22

Also, does anyone have an actual Soundblaster Pro or 16 (I'm not sure what was the intended soundcard for the FM version) they could use for recording? For this project, I would be interested in getting the music recorded with an authentic non-emulation SBPro/16. I have a DOS music player for playing the unique .M file format associated with Xeen. (And the might and magic 3 files shouldn't be too difficult to record by playing the game itself). I would much rather have something like that for the project than using my previous emulation rip. (I did one back in 2000 on my old computer then, but the encoding was only 128 and features some errors as well as missing some unused tracks.)
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby lordskylark » 2018-12-07 @ 07:14

KainXVIII wrote:
lordskylark wrote:I purchased an MT-32 (new -- must use to avoid buffer error, and quieter for sound quality) and SC-55 (original make ROM 1.20) to record the music from MM3~5 in order to preserve it properly. I'll be doing both the MT-32 and SC-55 soundtracks. I am also going to be recording each instrument channel completely separately, in order to avoid all polysynth problems, and then combine them into one file. At the moment, I will plan to upload it to youtube when I am finished.

Thanks, looking forward to hear it!


I have the MM4 SC-55 soundtrack recorded and uploaded (both as an individual playlist and as separate tracks) to my youtube account:

Single file soundtrack: https://youtu.be/5ihLBARqf6g
Playlist for separate files: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... nh1RIXAWzb

I am planning for the SC-55 MM5 one to be done by next weekend.
Once the Roland MT-32 arrives, I will be working on MM3~5, plus Planet's Edge, and some other misc. stuff. Since the MT-32 are the original versions, this version will have more alternate and unused tracks than the SC-55 one.
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Re: Xeen and Roland synths

Postby KainXVIII » 2018-12-07 @ 08:27

lordskylark wrote:
KainXVIII wrote:
lordskylark wrote:I purchased an MT-32 (new -- must use to avoid buffer error, and quieter for sound quality) and SC-55 (original make ROM 1.20) to record the music from MM3~5 in order to preserve it properly. I'll be doing both the MT-32 and SC-55 soundtracks. I am also going to be recording each instrument channel completely separately, in order to avoid all polysynth problems, and then combine them into one file. At the moment, I will plan to upload it to youtube when I am finished.

Thanks, looking forward to hear it!


I have the MM4 SC-55 soundtrack recorded and uploaded (both as an individual playlist and as separate tracks) to my youtube account:

Single file soundtrack: https://youtu.be/5ihLBARqf6g
Playlist for separate files: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... nh1RIXAWzb

I am planning for the SC-55 MM5 one to be done by next weekend.
Once the Roland MT-32 arrives, I will be working on MM3~5, plus Planet's Edge, and some other misc. stuff. Since the MT-32 are the original versions, this version will have more alternate and unused tracks than the SC-55 one.

Thanks, what a great work!
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