This seems to be a very sensible setup if you don't want to pay through your nose for a LAPC-I or a SCD-15.
Also, since your proposal contains two GM devices (SCC-1 and DB50XG), you can always choose between them and find the optimal sound for each game.

Mike 01Hawk wrote:

1)Doesn't the DB50xg and MT-32 stomp on each other's grounds?

No, not these two, but the SB16 and the SCC-1, which both would provide a MPU-401 port in your setup. In order to avoid resource conflicts at the 330H and IRQ2/9 standard settings, you'd have to set one of them to 300H and a different interrupt. I'd suggest doing that on the SB16.

Mike 01Hawk wrote:

2)Guess this will be a PITA software wise to point to which setup. Guess different boot ups/game install setups will be required

Not at all. Some older MT32 games won't take anything other than the standard settings, but it wouldn't be a problem with the setup you proposed. Usually games supporting GM can easily be set up to use a different address/IRQ.

Mike 01Hawk wrote:

3)Physically how to connect all this stuff. I'm guessing just a Y from the two ISA cards into a single output, or better yet, a reciever with 2 inputs.

You'd have to deal with 3 outputs: SB16+DB50XG, SCC1 and MT-32. The cleanest solution would be a Y cable from the MT32 and SCC-1 outputs to the SB16 line-in. Then you'd have everything available at the SB16 line-out.

Mike 01Hawk wrote:

4)Am I really causing a huge fuss over nothing? Should I just stick with one or the other and just live with it?

IMO it pays off to install good midi devices for GM and MT32. Of course you could do with less, but it wouldn't be the same experience. 😀

1)Doesn't the DB50xg and MT-32 stomp on each other's grounds? 2)Guess this will be a PITA software wise to point to which setup. […]
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1)Doesn't the DB50xg and MT-32 stomp on each other's grounds?
2)Guess this will be a PITA software wise to point to which setup. Guess different boot ups/game install setups will be required
3)Physically how to connect all this stuff. I'm guessing just a Y from the two ISA cards into a single output, or better yet, a reciever with 2 inputs.
4)Am I really causing a huge fuss over nothing? Should I just stick with one or the other and just live with it?

Answers:

1. The question you should be asking is "Do the SCC-1 and the SB 16 create a hardware conflict?" The answer is no if you set each card to use different I/O channels and IRQs. As far as sounds drowning each other out, get a switchbox and put that between the devices and your speakers.

2. You will need to setup each game to use either the Roland midi or the Sound Blaster midi. The SCC-1 should be kept to its default values: I/O 330h-331h, IRQ2/9 because many games expect this when you select the Roland option in the install program. The Sound Blaster 16 must use other values and you will need to set these values in the autoexec.bat file and in each game's setup. Fortunately, the MPU-401 emulation of the SB 16 doesn't use a separate IRQ, so just make sure the I/O ports are changed to use 300h-301h.

3. To connect the SCC-1 to the MT-32, you will need a DIN cable and a mini-DIN to DIN adapter (obtain at Creative's Americas site of all places.) You connect the midi-in of the MT-32 to the midi out of the SCC-1. The Yamaha DB50XG attaches to the Sound Blaster 16.

4. If I were you, I would probably stick with just the MT-32/SCC-1 combo. Hundreds of games supported the LA synthesis of the MT-32 and hundreds of later games were composed with the SCC-1 General Midi/GS patches in mind. The DB50XG came too late for most games. No real need for a CM-500 with this setup.

Hmm.. Thanks for the inputs guys.

So I'm confused a little bit, so the MT-32 provides something completely different from the DB50xg? It's the SB16 SCC-1 that overlap in funcationality? I coulda sworn it was the other way around.

Guess I should point out I already have a SB16 ISA.

I guess from a what to buy first point, I'm guessing I could hook both the MT-32 and the DB50XG up to the SB16, so.. go with either of those first. Once both are purchased and if I'm still in 'tweak mode', look for a SCC-1?

Mike 01Hawk wrote:

So I'm confused a little bit, so the MT-32 provides something completely different from the DB50xg?

Not completely different, but somewhat. The MT-32 (or LAPC-I, which is basically an internal MT-32) is much older, it came out before there was a General Midi standard. It uses a different method to generate instrument sounds, one that is very difficult to emulate (LA synthesis is quite complex and can also be used to generate custom sound effects). That's what makes these synths so special, because they are the only devices which sound "right" in very old games.
The DB50XG and the SCC-1 are General Midi synths, so they are compatible with all newer games that support GM wavetable music, but they cannot emulate the LA synthesis of the MT-32.

Mike 01Hawk wrote:

It's the SB16 SCC-1 that overlap in funcationality? I coulda sworn it was the other way around.

The SB16 and the SCC-1 overlap, because they both have a MPU-401 interface. The SB16 interface has not the full MPU-401 functionality, which doesn't matter with newer wavetable boards such as the DB50XG, but for a MT-32 it would be nice to have a real Roland MPU-401 interface (the SCC-1 does provide that).
The SCC-1 and the DB50XG also overlap in functionality, because they both are GM synthesizers. Most game music was composed on a SCC-1 or similar Roland synth. The DB50XG sounds a little different, some people prefer the sound of this module.

Mike 01Hawk wrote:

I guess from a what to buy first point, I'm guessing I could hook both the MT-32 and the DB50XG up to the SB16, so.. go with either of those first. Once both are purchased and if I'm still in 'tweak mode', look for a SCC-1?

The SB16 is not the best interface for a MT-32, but it would be possible. Of course it always depends on availability and price, and most important, the kind of games you want to play. You see, high-end DOS-era audio cards are a somewhat complex and expensive matter, that's why most people contented themselves with just a simple SB card.

Ahhh... well all this info is slowly starting to seep into my thick skull.

I loaded up Wing Commander 3 last night on my old Dos Box (MAN I coulda sworn the FMV was sooo much 'cleaner' looking back in the day, guess I've been spoiled with all the new tech).

Anyway, man.. the music on the SB16, well.. uh... SUCKS! 🤣

I was on the bridge and had the music going thru my headphones, then I went over to WCnews on my other PC that's hooked up to my Z-5500s and checked out their WC3 sounds samples that were produced using a Roland Sound Canvas (SC-55) and my jaw literally dropped!!! Check out the samples! (I'm sure most on here are aware of them)
http://www.wcnews.com/music/#wc3

So, what it looks like I really need to do is get the SCC-1 first which is the ISA card version of the external Sound Canvas SC-55 box. I've been reading up that the SCC-1 can also do MT-32 emulation 'right' most of the time so that should satisfy me for a little bit until I get my grubby hands on a real MT-32.

Needless to say, I'm pretty estatic just from the retro/nostalgia of playing games of my youth, but to now be able to play them 'better' is just amazing.

I had my fiance listen to both the SB16 midi of the Bridge sound track, and then the Sound Canvas version and she wasn't that impressed!!! 😳

I wanted to smack her!

She said yeah, she could hear a difference, but didn't see what the big deal was. I then told her I could get a SCC-1 off ebay for ~$130 shipped and HER jaw dropped! 🤣... she said she'd only be willing to pay maybe $10 for that kind of sound difference!

Needless to say, we might be going to war over my retro upgrades that I 'MUST' have.. 🤣. She needs to just wait until I start plopping down $50+ for vintage original DOS adventure games! Oh man... it's gonna be war I tell ya!

Sounds like she got quite the catch...

Perhaps this is a subject best left unraised between you. She obviously doesn't share your righteous conviction in this matter.

I never had the luxury owning Roland wavetable synthesizers until recently, so I sometimes find it hard to believe that DOS games were capable of such quality music back in the day unless it came on a CD track.

Mike 01Hawk wrote:

I then told her I could get a SCC-1 off ebay for ~$130 shipped and HER jaw dropped!

😳 Mine too! 🤣
Seriously, 130$ is quite expensive for a SCC-1. With a bit of patience you should be able to get one for half the price or even less.

I got ripped off on a SCD-15 for $70. I still regret paying that much, but they are so rare. Compared to my Soundscape Elite it is better only because of seriously superior choir voices, believe it or not. It actually sounds a bit odd at times and inferior. 😀

Honestly you'd be better off with a $5 SBLIVE! with some 50 meg soundfonts and DOSBOX or VDMSound. It can sound a lot better too. I even have a 2meg SCC-1 replication soundfont. Get it here

I have a SBLIVE! (in storage) and also a SB Audigy 2 ZS Gamer (in my main rig, an Athlon XP 3000+ with 1 gig mem, 6800gt, 2405fpw, 😁 )

Anyway, I'm trying to go the real dos route with my old clunker in my sig.

Something is just 'cool' with being able to dual boot into MS-DOS 6.22 / Win 98.

So yeah, trying to be a purist and having what was available back in the day (yeah, I know, a P1 200 mmx kinda nicks that, but eh, give me some slack 😁 )

well then u need a AMD 5x86 133 overclocked to 160 on a VLB motherboard with some wicked VLB video card like a ET4000/W32p or maybe a S3 Vision 968. Slap in a sweet VLB IDE controller while you're at it (I recommend the Promise EIDE2300 Plus), or even a caching IDE controller heh.

http://computers.search-desc.ebay.com/VLB_Com … rchiZQQsaprcloZ
http://cgi.ebay.com/AMD-AM5x86-P75-5x86-486-1 … 1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Promise-EIDE2300-PLUS-VES … 1QQcmdZViewItem

I only use modern hard drives tho cuz I hate the old skool ball bearing spindle noise. You just can't see the entire drive on these old rigs usually unless you use a dumb drive overlay (meh, forget those things).