*** Moving to PC section ***

DOS can access file on DVD but you nead good driver:
Don't use mscdex, it can't open files/directories with lowercases in their name
Use shsucdx (it's free) or nwcdex (it come with dr-dos)
In config.sys, I use dvs.sys (I don't remember where I downloaded it)

For slot1, 440BX is the best chipset but you can't use dimm larger then 256MB (you can use 2 or 3 of them) and you need a patched bios for a fast cpu, you can use hard disk up to 137GB if your bios support it

If you want to play dos games:
You'll have to learn memory management under dos
Disable loading windows at boot up (BootGUI=0 in msdos.sys)

Keep DOSBox for the games from the 80s (up to 1992)

I agree, i440BX seems the best choice. But make sure you get a board with at least two ISA slots for the soundcards (make that 3 if you want to use a SCC-1).
As StickbyDos mentioned, the BX chipset doesn't take all kinds of DIMMs, but other chipsets from that era have similar restrictions.

For video cards I recommend a GeForce 2 MX and a Voodoo2 SLI setup (or a Voodoo5 if you want something fancy 😁).

I would not put more than 512MB of RAM in a Win98se system, the system can lock up if more RAM is installed.

Windows 98se can support versions of DirectX from 6.1 to 9.0c. I think however, you should use Windows XP for the resource demanding games and Windows 98se for the less resource demanding games. I don't know of any games that use DirectX 7+ that would refuse to work on XP. If you are going to use strictly Windows games, then there is no need for any ISA slots and you should get the fastest devices available. This includes two GeForce 8800GTX cards running in an SLI configuration, an nForce 680i motherboard, an Intel Core 2 Duo X68000 Extreme processor, an X-Fi Sound Blaster w/X-RAM, 4GB of 800MHz DDR2, etc.

None of the devices you just suggested have drivers for Windows 9x. 😀

The idea is to build the bets XP machine you can, because Vista will likely be so much a minefield of incompatibility that it will make XP seem decent by comparison.

Thanks to all the comments, and apologies for putting it in the wrong section. 😀

Great Hierophant: I want to run DOS games from '95 onwards (ones that would have trouble with both XP and DOSBox, and would also perhaps need Glide) so the last suggestion of the best system for now wasn't quite what I was looking for. I think 512MB of RAM would be more than enough to cover the period - I doubt there's any games even today that 'need' that much.

5u3: The chipset and DIMM stuff I'm not really familiar with, I don't really understand it but I could always read up on it. I assume the motherboard has to support such a chipset/DIMM thing (DIMM is a type of RAM to use, I presume).

Voodoo2 SLI is two cards linked together, I believe, not sure if a 1GHz CPU would really need double the card power would it? As long as you're getting the support that is. Regardless, what's the best card option for Voodoo2, there's half a million cards out there (none of which I can find on eBay - I'm starting to think that living in the UK I'm gonna have trouble with getting these pieces) and I'm not sure what to look for (memory etc). And GeForce2 MX (from a quick Wikipedia scan) looks like a good early 3D-supporting card, though is it the best option for 2D, as the Voodoo2 card can take care of the Glide stuff (though obviously not everything uses Glide)?

Sound-wise I'm still not much clearer, don't know what the best option for DOS and Windows MIDI and regular sound is. So, briefly, best SB16 card? Best Waveblaster add-on? Best Windows card (unless the previous two do the job fine, which I doubt somewhat)? I assume GUS Max is the best GUS to go for.

Oh, and thanks StickByDos for the technical details, though obviously I'll deal with those once I've got the bits to use.

Psyklax wrote:

Thanks to all the comments, and apologies for putting it in the wrong section. 😀

Great Hierophant: I want to run DOS games from '95 onwards (ones that would have trouble with both XP and DOSBox, and would also perhaps need Glide) so the last suggestion of the best system for now wasn't quite what I was looking for. I think 512MB of RAM would be more than enough to cover the period - I doubt there's any games even today that 'need' that much.

512MB is far more than any DOS game would need, in fact, virtually any DOS game's code would fit within that 512MB!

Psyklax wrote:

5u3: The chipset and DIMM stuff I'm not really familiar with, I don't really understand it but I could always read up on it. I assume the motherboard has to support such a chipset/DIMM thing (DIMM is a type of RAM to use, I presume).

Voodoo2 SLI is two cards linked together, I believe, not sure if a 1GHz CPU would really need double the card power would it? As long as you're getting the support that is. Regardless, what's the best card option for Voodoo2, there's half a million cards out there (none of which I can find on eBay - I'm starting to think that living in the UK I'm gonna have trouble with getting these pieces) and I'm not sure what to look for (memory etc). And GeForce2 MX (from a quick Wikipedia scan) looks like a good early 3D-supporting card, though is it the best option for 2D, as the Voodoo2 card can take care of the Glide stuff (though obviously not everything uses Glide)?

If you want Glide support, save yourself two slots and get a Voodoo 3 card! Excellent 2D, 3D and Glide support. I know 5u3 would second that.

Psyklax wrote:

Sound-wise I'm still not much clearer, don't know what the best option for DOS and Windows MIDI and regular sound is. So, briefly, best SB16 card? Best Waveblaster add-on? Best Windows card (unless the previous two do the job fine, which I doubt somewhat)? I assume GUS Max is the best GUS to go for.

Oh, and thanks StickByDos for the technical details, though obviously I'll deal with those once I've got the bits to use.

In my humble opinion, the best SB16 card is the original Sound Blaster 16 CT-1740. The best Waveblaster add-on is the Roland SCD-15 (a.k.a. SCB-55.) Unless you want to record sound, any GUS, except the PnP, will work just fine. If you need Direct Sound 3D support, get an Aureal Vortex 2 or Sound Blaster Live! board

It can get tricky trying to get an optimal DOS and 9x box. I'd suggest not mixing PCI and ISA audio. Pick one or the other. A good DOS PCI card is Diamond Monster Sound MX300 (Vortex2), cuz it fairly decently emulates Sound Blaster PRO and it has a waveblaster connector. I used it with Wing Commander III just fine.

Otherwise the ISA way would be well paved with a Sound Blaster 16. The best MIDI is gotten with a Roland SCD10 or SCD15. SCC1 is an option too but it's another separate card. Yamaha DB50XG or DB60XG good DBs too. Yamaha SW60XG is a stand alone card like SCC1.

For video, I'd recommend a Voodoo3. This will work great for everything barring the earliest Glide games which can be tricky without a plain Voodoo1 and old drivers. Voodoo3 has stunningly fast 2D (DOS and Windows), it has clear analog output, and it has fine 3D support. You can't run two different Voodoo cards at once really.

64 - 128 MB RAM should be enough. HDD size of 4 GB more than enough.

440BX is a great chipset with excellent compatibility, and many of the boards have a few ISA slots. A Pentium II would be more than enough for any DOS title. Going too fast on the CPU (say a Tualatin P3) would be pushing your luck with old games.

Psyklax wrote:

5u3: The chipset and DIMM stuff I'm not really familiar with, I don't really understand it but I could always read up on it. I assume the motherboard has to support such a chipset/DIMM thing (DIMM is a type of RAM to use, I presume).

Yes, DIMM stands for a certain type of memory module which was widely used in mainboards of that age. (Wikipedia link)
What I wanted to tell was that some of the bigger memory modules (usually those with 256MB or more) will not always work in a mainboard that has the Intel 440BX chipset, even if the module has the correct speed rating and fits into the slot physically.

Great Hierophant wrote:

If you want Glide support, save yourself two slots and get a Voodoo 3 card! Excellent 2D, 3D and Glide support. I know 5u3 would second that.

Of course, the Voodoo3 is a very versatile card. Compared to my suggested solution it has some advantages. However, there also are some drawbacks. Here is a short comparison:

Voodoo3
+ Compact card, available in AGP and PCI versions
+ Passive heatsink, no noisy fan
+ Very fast 2D core
+ Good VGA signal quality on ALL models
+ Cheap price, easy to get on ebay
+ Supports DirectX, OpenGL and Glide APIs
- incomplete VESA 2.0 support (lacks 15bpp modes)
- 3D hardware restrictions: Only 16bit color depth in 3D modes, max. texture size 256x256, no T&L support, max. 16 MB Video RAM.
- 3D speed might not be adaequate for newer Win9x games

GeForce(2) (MX) + Voodoo2 (SLI)
+ Better support for newer 3D games (T&L, bigger texture sizes, more RAM)
+ GeForce 2 MX available in many variants, e.g: dual VGA output
+ Very good VESA support (depends on manufacturer and model)
+ Voodoo2 SLI can be combined with any VGA card, so there are more choices
- Takes up three slots (with Voodoo2 SLI)
- Poor VGA signal quality (depends on manufacturer and model but is usually quite bad)
- More expensive than a Voodoo3

swaaye wrote:

I'd suggest not mixing PCI and ISA audio.

I second that. I once tried to get a SB Audigy running along with a SB AWE64 and it was a configuration nightmare. It might be easier with other cards though.

If you want to use a wavetable daughterboard on a SB 16 or AWE32, remember that most SB ISA cards have a buggy MIDI interface. This thread has more information.

A GUS is nice to have, but is almost useless under Windows. It would only make sense if you want to watch scene demos or have programs which specifically support the GUS.

swaaye wrote:

It can get tricky trying to get an optimal DOS and 9x box. I'd suggest not mixing PCI and ISA audio.

Hold on. This is interesting. I mean, why?

Correct me if I'm wrong, and frankly I haven't ever tried it myself, but I alwasy thought, in a DOS/Win9x dual-boot environment, PCI sound card and ISA sound card will naturally get isolated from each other. Thus, I couldn't imagine what kind of resource conflict could happen.

If I recall correctly, a PCI sound card needs a TSR driver to run in DOS. Without loading the driver, I guess the PCI sound card won't get recognized at all in DOS. Therefore, the ISA sound card will be the only one functioning in DOS, and there won't be any resource conflict, I guess.

In Win9x environment, both ISA and PCI sound card will be detected by Windows, and it could potentially lead to resource conflict. However, I think resource conflicts can be avoided (by careful assignment of IRQ, DMA, etc) and both cards can coexist together in Windows. Of course, if resource conflict is inevitable, one can always disable the ISA sound card in Windows (disable in this hardware profile).

But of course, all was just theoritical, since I haven't tried such thing myself. However, I do plan to use both ISA and PCI sound card for the dual-boot rig I'm about to build: one is an AWE64 Gold to play DOS games, another is an Aureal Vortex PCI sound card to be ran under Windows and play those A3D or EAX games.

So again, what's the worst could happen by having both PCI and ISA sound cards in your rig?

Confilct between ISA and PCI sound cards can be a driver problem
I have instaled AWE32 and Live! in the same pc.
When I used Live! with kX project's drivers, I got bsod when I tried to used huge soundfont in Live! with awe32 installed, I replaced kX project with CT AudioHQ, no more problem.

Woah, lots to take in. Okay...

I was not sure about which Voodoo chipset to go for, as I'd read that Voodoo3 was a bit of a disappointment, compared to its predecessor, but if it can be a one-stop solution to all my 2D and 3D video worries (including all 3 APIs) it sounds like the one to go for. Question is, what card should I get with a Voodoo3 chip on it? I don't know what differences the cards have other than onboard RAM, and I don't really know what difference RAM makes to anything. At the end of the day, the processor should be more than fast enough (contemplating a P2 300MHz I have) so any speed deficiencies in the card might not be a big issue. If I have compatibility probs with early Glide games I can always get a Voodoo1 card and slot it in when necessary (not likely though).

Looks like I'm gonna need to find a good old SB16, but the daughterboard to stick on to it seems a little less clear. There's a PCI version of the SB16, but would that solve any Windows sound issues? I assume 9x doesn't go for ISA slots. That MIDI problem mentioned by 5u3 also makes me wonder what the best solution is. I suppose I could always buy a few cards and experiment... but I'm assume a Roland Sound Canvas is the way to go, DOS wise anyway. This website seems to suggest my search could be tough, though: http://www.midisite.com/info/synth/SCD15.htm

Found this one on eBay, but the reserve suggests the same: http://cgi.ebay.com/Roland-Sound-Canvas-SCB-5 … 1QQcmdZViewItem

StickByDos wrote:

DOS can access file on DVD but you nead good driver: Don't use mscdex, it can't open files/directories with lowercases in their […]
Show full quote

DOS can access file on DVD but you nead good driver:
Don't use mscdex, it can't open files/directories with lowercases in their name
Use shsucdx (it's free) or nwcdex (it come with dr-dos)
In config.sys, I use dvs.sys (I don't remember where I downloaded it)

I know Win9x cannot read multisession DVDs using the UDF filesystem (at least, aside from the first session). Is SHSUCDX different in that respect?

SB16 PCI is not compatible with SB16 ISA, it's actually based on Ensoniq AudioPCI, It need a TSR, which emulate sb16 isa with midi, to work under dos. (its name is just for marketing purpose)

PCI cards can't really work under dos
When a dos software needs to make sound, it directly programmes the soundcard.
Most of isa soundcards emulate sb isa in hardware to get maximum compatibility under dos but data are not sent to pci cards in the same way as with isa.

ISA soundcards get data using dma: a chip on the mobo which is programmed to exchange data between memory and isa bus.
PCI soundcards gets data using bus mastering: they read directly from memory.

When you want to make sound under dos with pci card:
- The software knows how to programme your pci card directly (I only know mpxplay who do this)
- Else, you have to emulate sb isa using a tsr which intercept dma programming but it require some feature of protected mode like io permissions which are easier to use in a multitasking os than under dos.

For serious dos gamming, use an isa soundcard.

StickByDos wrote:

Confilct between ISA and PCI sound cards can be a driver problem

But in general, that should be okay, right?

Psyklax wrote:

Question is, what card should I get with a Voodoo3 chip on it? I don't know what differences the cards have other than onboard RAM, and I don't really know what difference RAM makes to anything.

This is easy, since all Voodoo3 cards were made by a single manufacturer: STB Systems. Three models do exist:
Voodoo3 2000: core/RAM clock: 143 MHz
Voodoo3 3000: core/RAM clock: 166 MHz, TV-out on AGP models
Voodoo3 3500: core/RAM clock: 183 MHz, TV/S-video-out, TV tuner
Otherwise the cards are identical. There are some cut-down OEM models which have only 8 MB RAM installed. These cards are slower in games that cannot fit all their textures into the video RAM (or have to use lower-quality textures). Since the Voodoo cards do not support all AGP features, this effect is even more noticeable than with other 3D cards.
The high-end models are known to get very hot, so make sure you have good case ventilation.

Psyklax wrote:

Found this one on eBay, but the reserve suggests the same: http://cgi.ebay.com/Roland-Sound-Canvas-SCB-5 … 1QQcmdZViewItem

Hehe, that one looks familiar 😁
Good luck, Mike 01Hawk, hope you get a decent price for it 😉

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

StickByDos wrote:

Confilct between ISA and PCI sound cards can be a driver problem

But in general, that should be okay, right?

Yes, if you can assign different resources to the cards. In my case it was almost certainly a driver issue, but I didn't bother long enough to find out.

Voodoo3's lack of real AGP support is also a plus though. The cards are very lenient about what board/chipset they run on, unlike many many other 3d cards.

Voodoo3's 3D should be more than adequate for older games. If it isn't fast enough you aren't playing games that really fit in the VOGON mentality. Voodoo3 is really very fast. You can run Unreal at like 1600x1200 fairly well on one, for example. And that's a V3 2000. And Unreal is about as new as you should be going anyway with a "retro" rig.

Voodoo3 + Compact card, available in AGP and PCI versions + Passive heatsink, no noisy fan + Very fast 2D core + Good VGA si […]
Show full quote

Voodoo3
+ Compact card, available in AGP and PCI versions
+ Passive heatsink, no noisy fan
+ Very fast 2D core
+ Good VGA signal quality on ALL models
+ Cheap price, easy to get on ebay
+ Supports DirectX, OpenGL and Glide APIs
- incomplete VESA 2.0 support (lacks 15bpp modes)
- 3D hardware restrictions: Only 16bit color depth in 3D modes, max. texture size 256x256, no T&L support, max. 16 MB Video RAM.
- 3D speed might not be adaequate for newer Win9x games

GeForce(2) (MX) + Voodoo2 (SLI)
+ Better support for newer 3D games (T&L, bigger texture sizes, more RAM)
+ GeForce 2 MX available in many variants, e.g: dual VGA output
+ Very good VESA support (depends on manufacturer and model)
+ Voodoo2 SLI can be combined with any VGA card, so there are more choices
- Takes up three slots (with Voodoo2 SLI)
- Poor VGA signal quality (depends on manufacturer and model but is usually quite bad)
- More expensive than a Voodoo3

A very concise analysis. However, I would like to make a few observations:
If you are one of the lucky few to find a Quantum3D Obsidian2 X-24, you would only need one ISA slot and may even enjoy better VGA quality than most other cards could (for the price, you should!)

Why use a MX model when you could use a Geforce 2 GTS? Actually, I am partial to a Geforce 4 because those cards almost always have a DVI connector, which equates to the best video quality with TFT panels that sport a DVD connector. In that case, you should stick with a Voodoo 2 because no Voodoo card really utilizes a DVI connector. Do games use those 15bpp VESA modes the Voodoo3 does not support?