Normally DOSBox tries to automatically set the emulation speed correctly for any game. If that doesn't work (game running too fast or audio/video stuttering), it is still possible to set the number of cycles manually, which affects the speed of the emulation. This allows you to fine-tune the speed for every game.

The DOSBox manual has a few hints on this topic.

In your case it would be best using the fastest PC available, because slowdown is variable, and DOSBox itself needs quite an amount CPU power for the emulation.

Some of us still maintain machines built of old hardware, for several reasons:
- The DOSBox emulation lacks some functionality or accuracy compared to the "real thing", although it is improving with every release.
- Our fastest machines are not powerful enough to run more demanding DOS programs within DOSBox.
- We simply don't want to throw away our old PCs 😉

I haven't fully checked the entire component inventory in the DX4/100 yet, though I do know it only has 32 MBs of RAM (probably EDO, but with all of those ribbon cables running everywhere (I'd sorta managed to forget that), I'm not sure what all is inside of it. I do know it actually boots into Windows95, but someone has edited the Logo, and it wasn't my doing.
😁
I see that you also have a P5A, and I remembered that as being a particularly good one, which is how it happens to still be in the parts stock, but I never did have any 3Dfx VooDoo adapters.

Our fastest machines are not powerful enough to run more demanding DOS programs within DOSBox.

Could you give examples of these DOS games that fit this category? I know Quake is a resource demanding game, but 150,000 cycles for non-acceleration or a DOS GLQuake patch should do the trick.

Great Hierophant wrote:

Our fastest machines are not powerful enough to run more demanding DOS programs within DOSBox.

Could you give examples of these DOS games that fit this category? I know Quake is a resource demanding game, but 150,000 cycles for non-acceleration or a DOS GLQuake patch should do the trick.

Sorry, my error, I meant to write "Not all of us own a PC fast enough to run more demanding DOS programs within DOSBox."

I'm aware that with recent DOSBox versions on somewhat modern systems, emulation performance is not a problem any more. However, people often tend to play old games because they are stuck with a weak PC, and in these cases it might be better to run resource demanding games natively.

Kiwi wrote:

I haven't fully checked the entire component inventory in the DX4/100 yet, though I do know it only has 32 MBs of RAM

That would be plenty for DOS programs. It is probably not EDO, but FPM (Fast Page Mode), since only very few 486 chipsets supported EDO DRAM.

Kiwi wrote:

I thought that I had a worrking K6-2/500 system with an Asus P5A, but so far, it is too picky about Hdds, so I think something is damaged.

Not necessarily. The P5A doesn't detect harddisks bigger than 32 GB, this can be fixed by flashing the last beta BIOS (1011 beta 005). With the beta BIOS it can handle harddisks up to 128 GB.

Kiwi:

check out the sidewinder part here.

http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_downloads.shtml#Drivers

In reverse order, thanks for the Sidewinder in DOS link.

The MB in the DX4's system is a SOYO of some sort, but I've lost track of any documentation I might have saved here, and it didn't come back to me with any CDs or printouts that I gave it away with.

There may have been a glitch in the form of a bad or less-than-optimal PSU when I tested the P5A, but even with the jumper on the max-32 MB pins, it wouldn't work with a 40 MB drive, nor even with a 10 or a 20 I tried. The 20 MB Hdd I keep in a "Loaner" spare here (has a Biostar VIG or VIW Socket A MB and a 2100+ Thoroughbred XP in it) was the only one it would ever recognize, for some reason.

Later, after putting a Gigabyte GA-7IXE and Duron 900 in that box, I found problems with the case's Rosewill "400 watt" (hah!) power supply. I also have a Biostar MB with the same Chipset, an M5ALA, and I thought I'd had a 60 GB matched to that one at some point

I'd just use Quake95 if you really want to play Quake. That game is one that would require a ton of CPU power within DOSBOX.

Another argument for just using DOSBOX instead of old hardware is that if you try to play some DOS games on newer hardware, such as a K6 say, they may not be stable. It's tough to get a good combination of hardware that will make those old games happy and DOSBOX neatly does that for you most of the time.

Of course, it's fun to build old puters. Otherwise I wouldn't have a drawer full of 15 yrs in video card history 🤣. And a bunch of CPUs, mobos, and sound cards to go with them. But what usually happens is I build the machine and then get bored with it. 😀 All the fun is in the set up process heh.

swaaye wrote:

I'd just use Quake95 if you really want to play Quake. That game is one that would require a ton of CPU power within DOSBOX.

Quake's nothing; try Armored Fist 2 if you want a CPU choking game that today's dualcores even have trouble running.

Also Quake95 is just a Windows TCP driver wrapper on top of dos Quake to get it working with that protocol, nothing more

I'd just use Quake95 if you really want to play Quake. That game is one that would require a ton of CPU power within DOSBOX.

Actually, Quake plays pretty damn smoothly at 100K cycles, dynamic core in a 640x480 resolution. This is what I found in single player, multiplayer may prove to be more of a performance hog. If there were a 3D accelerated version of Quake available for DOS, it would run even better. If you can run Quake smoothly, I cannot think of a single DOS game that will not run very well if you have the underlying hardware to back up your cycle settings. This is why I am seriously considering a Win 9x only system. No more ISA cards, no more tiny hard drive partitions, networking, 3d Acceleration, surround sound, etc.

Great Hierophant wrote:

If there were a 3D accelerated version of Quake available for DOS, it would run even better.

Vquake is an official DOS port that takes advantage of Rendition Verite chipsets.

I guess since the Quake source is out, a glide enabled DOS version could be possible.

Between this foum and WCCIC (Wing Commander CIC), both groups have pretty well convinced me to go with DOSbox on a spare PC (which has to be assembled) -- I have an AMD 3200 single core CPU and a choice of an AGP or PCIe (MSI) mainboard for it. One NF3 250, the other NF4. Either can be Overclocked easily.

I'd much rather build out of the spares cabinet, and I only have a Sapphire X1600 or a Leadtek PSX 5900 to choose from in PCIe. (I have no spare DDR2 at all; both of those MSIs are DDR400 mainboards.)

Are there any preferred hardware choices (such as different AGP video choices, of which I have more variety to choose from).
😎

Hi Kiwi, 5u3 ... I read your thread and replies with much interest regarding the Old Hardwares and DosBox.

I'm one of the old time gamers who grew up with the days of Ms-Dos 3.3 onwards.
And I've been building my own pcs for quite sometime now.
What I would like to share is about my own systems setup and how it may relate to you regarding the classic gaming experiences.

I have two pcs, a contemporary pc, which I keep upgrading whenever time and money permit, and another is a classic pc.

[A]
My new system is a Quad Core based Intel system in which I play the new games and Dosbox. It's very important to build a fast (or the fastest you can afford) to bring back Dos gaming experiences. But once you have a good enough system, most of the games will run very comfortably.
Not to mention playing back those classics which have support for GM and MT32 music. With the MT-32 emulator, Dosbox brings back the MT32 music almost like the actual one. For this you need a fast processor too.

If you want to use Dosbox, use it in your newer/faster system.

As 5u3 said, not all games will run smoothly. Especially those newer protected mode games. Most of the post-1993 era games are resource intensive, since at these times, 486DX2 systems were ruling the world and they were able to handle all the things the games wanted at that time.

Unfortunately, Dosbox can only emulate a very fast 386 well, but cannot yet play like a fast 486/early pentium based system. Yet. But things will change and improve, since once upon a time, Dosbox could only load real-mode games. And looking at how Dosbox is functioning nowadays, my homage goes to the Dosbox creator and the community.

Now my classic machine. After I came back from graduation, I was almost heart-broken when I found out that my old 286 and Pentium 133 had been sold off. After started working, I got myself the new system. But I was still missing the good old days of Dos gaming.
I searched everywhere for a classic machine, but to no avail. But then, one day I saw one system sold locally in my country in a website, which is like e-bay.

It was a Pentium III 450MHz. It came with 96MB RAM, 5GB HDD and a generic S3 PCI graphics card and an Ensoniq ISA sound card. The DFI motherboard has 4 ISA, 3PCI and 1 AGP slots.

I got it immediately. And know what? I didn't stop there...

I browsed somemore and got 2 256MB PC-133 SDRAM sticks, a 3dfx Voodoo 4 4500 AGP video card, and I fitted it with my own SB AWE64 ISA soundcard. All these I put in a newly bought casing.
And I bought a new 80GB HDD for it, and added a DVD writer.

I used the old 5GB HDD for Dos. Installed Dos 6.22 and made 3 partitions in the HDD. Also installed Win3.11 for workgroups. (Some games were made for win 3.11 those days and win3.11 won't recognize a PCI soundcard. Though you can use w95 to play w3.11 games, I use it for nostalgic sake)

Then in the other HDD, I installed Win98SE. And I switch booting when required, by going to bios and changing the boot drive.
So I get the best of both worlds.

And know what? If you're using a voodoo card, you don't need a seperate vesa driver to play hi-res DOS games, like Terminator Skynet's 640x480 version or Crusader No Remorse/Regret series or any other hi-res games for that matter. That's what I found.

I use my Classic system's Dos environment to play all the "newer" dos games, and especially those that came on CDs. As a general rule, most of the CD based DOS games were resource intensive and are protected mode games. Example : Wing Commander III, IV, etc..

So build a classic system to play resource intensive Dos games and if for nothing else, you can use it for nostalgic sake.

All my games run smoothly. And of course, although I do have MoSlo, for those games that require slowdown, I prefer to use Dosbox in my new system, since it can handle "too-fast" games better.

Err...sorry for the extremely long reply. Guess I was too excited speaking of my classic system. 😀

Malik wrote:

Unfortunately, Dosbox can only emulate a very fast 386 well, but cannot yet play like a fast 486/early pentium based system.

What

Download Dosbox 0.72, try some new games (post-1995 ones in particular) and come back and tell us that dosbox can still only emulate a lowly 386

Hmmm....leileilol, maybe you're right. Dosbox should have got better. I'm using 0.71 only now. Since I've been playing the resource intensive games in my classic dedicated pc, I haven't tested these in dosbox yet.

Thanks for the info. Dosbox is getting better sooner than I anticipated, I guess. 😀

As of today, I "only" have a moderately older system available for playing early Win9x games in Win98se, using 384 MBs RAM, with a GF3 Ti-200 and a sub-GHz CPU. The DX4/ 100 MHz 486 system is apart while I transfer its internals to a somewhat more up to date chassis to enable me to swap parts more easily. (I need a power switch for its power supply, though -- won't work with a modern ATX front panel switch, and the old MB won't work with a modern power supply !)

It has an SB-16 sound card and an S3 Trio PCI video card. Right now, it has 32 MBs of RAM, but I'm certain it's EDO, and I have another 32 MBs that I can add. The OS on it is Win95c, and I do not have an MS-DOS 6.2 or PC-DOS 6.3 on 3 1/2 to work with (I suspect those were on High Density 5 1/4 floppies, and all of the 5 1/4 stuff is long gone now).

I didn't want to add the DOSbox emulator to an existing system, but the real fact is that my fastest, most powerful PC has an A64 4000 single core processor and X800 XT-Platinum VGA. There are several PCs and a LAN, including a few multi-player games my granchildren can play together on visits here. None of my PCs are kept near the High Tech bleeding edge because the cost of one being that well equipped would limit the funds available for another PC.

I never liked paying leading edge prices when I had a salaried income, and so I keep three systems at roughly the level of two years ago, by waiting that long to buy the parts, after they depreciate enough I feel I can afford them. I can build a fourth of the same tech level a lot more cheaply than to upgrade one of my three right now to today's newest tech level.

I do plan to OC the dedicated DOSbox machine (I OC most of my PCs), and I'm looking at some XP-120 heat sink options right now.
😁

OK, what I'm trying to say is this...to use Dosbox, use it in the fastest system you have. If what you're building is inferior to the fastest system you have, you're gonna compromise the quality of and degrade Dosbox's performance.

You don't need to build a dedicated Dosbox machine since an existing latest system you have is the best platform you can give for your Dosbox.

The classic system's components that you mentioned on the other hand, like EDO RAM, SB16,etc,..are best suited if you're building a pure DOS/Win3.11 system running in their native mode.

If you're using Dosbox, you don't need to worry of the system components since Dosbox "channels" your modern graphics card and sound card, etc. from windows to the emulation.

I will really worry about my specific components when I'm building a pure DOS machine. Oh, by the way, the best graphics card imho for a DOS machine would be a 3dfx voodoo, since almost all hi-res games will run as it is without a separate vesa driver. Not sure of other cards though. And an ISA based sound card is the best for it. A SoundBlaster ISA can't go wrong there. A SBAWE32 or AWE64 will be sweet. 😀

And uh, don't worry about frequent upgrading and all the stuff.... I only upgrade one of my systems... sort of hobby for me.... sigh...though a very expensive one...I guess this will be the last time I upgrade...getting old already. And I prefer the older PC games anyway. As for newer games, I prefer to use my consoles for them. No need to worry about upgrading. 😉

Malik wrote:

Oh, by the way, the best graphics card imho for a DOS machine would be a 3dfx voodoo

Good luck running 15-bit color.

The "best" VGA chipset for DOS era gaming is subjectional. The oldschool pre-3d acceleration guys will say ET4000 is best as it's the most widely supported and could do many Xmodes well and planar shifts pretty smoothly. The pre 3Dfx crowd will tell you that s3 Virge is best as it has support in many titles and it's cheap. The Voodoo lovers will assume that no other VGA card compares - to any of it's features - some of which are non existant such as proper fully compliant VESA support. Meanwhile the Matrox zealots just are from another plane of existence entirely...