VOGONS


First post, by Great Hierophant

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Is it possible to get these two cards working in the same computer? Both cards are PnP, but the amount of resources they demand would but a strain on any system.

Consider the SB AWE64:
Soundblaster Port
AWE Port
SB IRQ
Low DMA
High DMA
MPU401 Port

The GUS PnP is much worse

Ultrasound Port
Ultrasound IRQ
SB IRQ
Record DMA
Playback DMA
MPU401 Port
MPU401 IRQ

This does not include potential conflicts such as the joystick port, Adlib port. Also, the GUS PnP has an Atapi CD-ROM port, the AWE64 does not.

Here are the options I would use:

Soundblaster Port 220
AWE Port 620
SB IRQ 5
Low DMA 1
High DMA 5
MPU401 Port 330

Ultrasound Port 240
Ultrasound IRQ 7
SB IRQ 7
Record DMA 7
Playback DMA 7
MPU401 Port 332
MPU401 IRQ 7

In theory, it could work. For the Ultrasound, you will have to bear what appear to be IRQ and DMA conflicts. However, as we are gaming we only need one DMA for playback, no DMA is needed because we are not recording. The Ultrasound can take up three IRQs, but because we are not using SBOS, Mega-Em or IWSBOS, the SB and MPU IRQs are not going to be triggered. The Ultrasound is at 240, so it should not conflict with a Soundblaster at 220. The CD-ROM interface of the GUS can be disabled and its resources put in places where it can do no harm.

Now that is the theory, in practice things may be different getting these two cards to select these settings. Obviously one joystick interface will have to be disabled. You should also not use games that support Adlib through 388/389 because both cards will seek to do something with those reads and writes.

Reply 1 of 8, by Zup

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I would disable SB emulation in the GUS and maybe MPU401 in the SB. Could it be done?

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 2 of 8, by 5u3

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Yes it is possible, I've installed a GUS PnP and an AWE32 in my K6 system.
Under plain DOS, the setup is not very difficult if you have some experience with ISA-PnP cards and bear a few things in mind:

  • Disable all unneeded/redundant devices, such as CDROM and joystick ports.
  • Set the I/O addresses, IRQs and DMAs manually, as the automatic PnP configuration will most likely result in settings unsupported by many games or does not work at all.
  • Set both GUS IRQs and DMAs to the same value.
  • Do not use the SB emulation features of the GUS. This also solves the "conflict" at the AdLib ports - without SB emulation, the GUS will not interfere.

So much for the DOS installation. The GUS PnP will behave exactly as a normal GUS, except for slightly better sound quality. Some games/demos/trackers support the extended features of the PnP card, usually it is called GUS PnP or AMD Interwave in the sound setup. Select this instead of the normal GUS if you want to use more than 1 MB of sample RAM.

For installing both cards under Windows 9x, prepare to go through a configuration nightmare. I recommend making a backup of your Windows installation before you begin, otherwise you might end up in a mental institution. 🙄

Basically it should work by assigning all resources for the cards manually (use the same ones as under plain DOS!) and disabling all remaining unnecessary devices. It might take you uncountable restarts and much cursing until everything is set up as desired.

Those GUS PnP Windows drivers are labelled beta for a reason: Sometimes the GUS "forgets" assigned resources and takes random ones instead, without showing them in the device manager. If you are lucky, only sound doesn't work any more. In bad cases you'll have to put up with the 16-color VGA driver, no network and sporadic hard disk read errors.

I don't remember how many times I've tried to get those drivers running stable. In the end I chickened out - I disabled all GUS devices in the device manager. There is not much use for a GUS under Windows anyways.

Reply 3 of 8, by Amigaz

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5u3 wrote:
Yes it is possible, I've installed a GUS PnP and an AWE32 in my K6 system. Under plain DOS, the setup is not very difficult if y […]
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Yes it is possible, I've installed a GUS PnP and an AWE32 in my K6 system.
Under plain DOS, the setup is not very difficult if you have some experience with ISA-PnP cards and bear a few things in mind:

  • Disable all unneeded/redundant devices, such as CDROM and joystick ports.
  • Set the I/O addresses, IRQs and DMAs manually, as the automatic PnP configuration will most likely result in settings unsupported by many games or does not work at all.
  • Set both GUS IRQs and DMAs to the same value.
  • Do not use the SB emulation features of the GUS. This also solves the "conflict" at the AdLib ports - without SB emulation, the GUS will not interfere.

So much for the DOS installation. The GUS PnP will behave exactly as a normal GUS, except for slightly better sound quality. Some games/demos/trackers support the extended features of the PnP card, usually it is called GUS PnP or AMD Interwave in the sound setup. Select this instead of the normal GUS if you want to use more than 1 MB of sample RAM.

For installing both cards under Windows 9x, prepare to go through a configuration nightmare. I recommend making a backup of your Windows installation before you begin, otherwise you might end up in a mental institution. 🙄

Basically it should work by assigning all resources for the cards manually (use the same ones as under plain DOS!) and disabling all remaining unnecessary devices. It might take you uncountable restarts and much cursing until everything is set up as desired.

Those GUS PnP Windows drivers are labelled beta for a reason: Sometimes the GUS "forgets" assigned resources and takes random ones instead, without showing them in the device manager. If you are lucky, only sound doesn't work any more. In bad cases you'll have to put up with the 16-color VGA driver, no network and sporadic hard disk read errors.

I don't remember how many times I've tried to get those drivers running stable. In the end I chickened out - I disabled all GUS devices in the device manager. There is not much use for a GUS under Windows anyways.

And in Windows 3.11?

I plan to use my Compaq ultrasound together with my SB16 non PnP, but my Win3.1 knowledge is slim...can you switch between soundcards in Win3.1?

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 5 of 8, by Amigaz

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c.imp wrote:

http://www.maz-sound.com/archives/iweeprom13.zip
Just disable unuseful card parts (IDE, SB, MPU-401) with this tool and be happy.

Nice, thanks!

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 6 of 8, by Riboflavin

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You have every chance of getting this to work properly.

Be Forewarned. There is a slight possibility that you could encounter the dreaded so-called "Adlib conflict". This seems to be a result of both cards monitoring memory location 388h (even with the SB emulation completely OFF on a GUS). I am fairly sure that this problem springs from a motherboard BIOS issue, and depends entirely on what motherboard you are using. It was because of this and not being able to find a motherboard BIOS update for my particular system that finally forced me to switch from an GUS PnP to an ACE on my main retro system.

The "Adlib conflict" simply manifested as never being able to hear any Adlib music/sound. My test for that was the good old game SkyRoads. If you can hear both music and the "roar" of the spaceship that flies in when you immediately start the game, you are good. If all you can hear is the "roar" and no music... you've got the Adlib conflict.

Other than that, I had the GUS and the SB AWE64 PnP set up with the exact same IRQ values you described, and everything else worked.

Anyway, since other brands of motherboards do not have this issue, and I finally found a BIOS update (which solved other problems as well), I am convinced that this is now solved on my system and I probably could go back to a PnP at this point.

So, yes... the setup you described works very well. Also if you can hear the music in SkyRoads after it is all set up, you know you are golden.

Oh, and a nice utility I found useful for the testing process of getting them to coexist in a Win9x environment was vanBasco's Karaoke Player.

http://www.vanbasco.com/karaokeplayer/

It's very handy as a Midi player, because you can simply right click and change the hardware you'd like the song to use... even mid-song. Gotta admit it creates a warm fuzzy feeling being able to switch from SB-FMsynth, to GUS, to AWE, right on the fly. Then you KNOW you set it up right. Also a Roland card will be in there too if you have one. 😀

Best of luck. As I'm sure you know, A GUS is your ticket to explore the retro Demoscene (www.pouet.net). That's what the GUS is really best at IMHO.

Have Fun!

**Don't forget to enjoy the sauce**

Reply 7 of 8, by gekiere

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SB16 Vibra PNP and GUS PNP in my system. Doing a nostalgia retro build 😉 Same issue as you have all described, a 388 memory address conflict. Neither Gravis' iwavecfg.exe or pnpcfg.exe released the 388 adlib address from the GUSPNP for me in DOS (Win98SE does see the changes).
I looked where Gravis stores it's parameters that are called from the autoexec.bat and went into the IW.INI. There I changed 388 to 0 (which appears to be the equivalent of OFF) in the AdlibBase=388 line and that worked to stop the GUS from taking the adlib address. Both cards fully work without conflict and can switch between DOS games without rebooting.

Hope this helps after all these years 😉

Reply 8 of 8, by gras

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@gekiere Thank you very much. This particular piece of information helped me get my GuS PnP working alongside my SB Pro 2 (non PnP). I can now hear adlib music and SB sounds in Wolfenstein 3D and have GUS sound in Pinball Fantasies, Epic Pinball and Doom, without needing to reboot or reload drivers. 😀

For anyone who might be interested, here are the contents of the relevant parts of my IW.INI:

[setup 0]
SynthBase=240
CodecBase=34C
CDBase=1E8
ATAPIBase=376
MpuBase=336
AdlibBase=0
GamePort=0
IRQ1=11
IRQ2=11
CDIRQ=15
MPUIRQ=10
SBIRQ=7
DMA1=7
DMA2=7
CDDMA=4
mode=legacy
GPusage=IRQ
revision=B0
csn=1
pnprdp=20b
UseDma=true
SBDMA=5
vendor_id=GRV0001
effects=on
winrdp=273
dosrdp=20b
config=0

My autoexec.bat runs iwinit, setenv and so on for the gus first.

The important part for the SBPRO2 is that the drivers are loaded in config.sys and that SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4 is run after the gravis-stuff in autoexec.bat

I hope this might help someone.