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Proprietary 3D API's

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Reply 60 of 71, by sliderider

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swaaye wrote:

CGL was for 3D Blaster VLB, which used a stripped down 3DLabs Glint 300SX, called Game Glint. So the API was probably related to 3DLabs somehow.

There's also a little known Yamaha 3D accelerator called RPA. Rendering Polygon Accelerator, YGV611 and 612. I bet it has its own fun API as well.

It would be nice to have one of those VLB cards, but I just can't seem to justify paying very much for one in light of the fact that it's not likely to be compatible with any games requiring hardware 3D acceleration, not that you ever see any for sale anyway.

Reply 61 of 71, by robertmo

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unmei220 wrote:
Back to POD, I have POD Gold, and it came with the following executables (supporting different chipsets): -PODATIX.EXE -PODFXM64 […]
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Back to POD, I have POD Gold, and it came with the following executables (supporting different chipsets):
-PODATIX.EXE
-PODFXM64.EXE
-PODMAX64.EXE
-PODD3DX.EXE
-PODPVRX.EXE
-PODS3DX.EXE
-PODX3DFX.EXE

Maybe they only change some settings and doesn't natively support all those APIs, although the 3DFX one does ask me for glide2x when I launch it.

It also comes with Windows launchers:
-WPOD3DFX.EXE
-WPODATI.EXE
-WPODD3D.EXE
-WPODPVR.EXE
-WPODS3D.EXE

EDIT: OK, I launched the launcher (...) under windows, and it lets me see all the different install methods, this are all the different install options (it also says what the requirements for each one are):
-Playable config with ATI Rage Card (req. ATI Card)
-Playable config with S3 Virge Card (req. S3D Card)
-Playable config with 3dfx Card (req. 3DFX Card)
-Playable config with PowerVR (req. Power VR Card)
-Playable config with MaxiSound

This is under windows, as I said earlier, there are more executables for DOS (listed above).

All executables are for windows:
-PODATIX.EXE mmx ati
-PODFXM64.EXE 3dfx maxisound
-PODMAX64.EXE maxisound
-PODD3DX.EXE mmx direct3d
-PODPVRX.EXE mmx powervr
-PODS3DX.EXE mmx s3
-PODX3DFX.EXE mmx 3dfx
-WPOD3DFX.EXE 3dfx
-WPODATI.EXE ati
-WPODD3D.EXE direct3d
-WPODPVR.EXE povervr
-WPODS3D.EXE s3

btw there is no mmx with maxisound and no other 3d cards (apart from 3dfx) with maxisound. So it looks like many options but still many missing 😉

Reply 62 of 71, by Gona

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GL1zdA wrote:

ATI CIF:
ATI 3D Rage, 3D Rage II/II+/IIC, Rage Pro, Rage LT Pro
Does anyone know whether it works with ATI Rage XL (its Rage Pro based)? Which is the fastest of these cards? (Rage Pro, Rage LT Pro or Rage XL?). Is there a list of games supporting it? (i found: WipeOut, Assault Rigs, MechWarrior II, Formula 1 - probably only available bundled with ATI cards [The CD-ROMs have "Powered by ATi 3D Rage" on them])

I just finished my "ATI 3D Rage (ATI 3D CIF) API - chip and driver compatibility matrix" page.
ATI 3D CIF (ati3dcif.dll) requires Windows 95 (Win9x/ME) and requires MACXW4 driver (or atim64; ati_m64; atir3) version 4.02.0229 or later, and compatible video chip (Rage Mobility, Rage128 and laters are not compatible).
Originally the Rage XL was also not compatible because it has come out with later "ATI2DRAB" and "ATI2DRAE" drivers, but the latest MACXW4 driver the 4.11.2573 (it is a Compaq Softpaq update: SP10912.EXE) can work with Rage XL. The MACXW4 4.11.2573 driver has ati3dcif.dll version 4.11.2694 that also not compatible with Rage XL but you can downgrade to 4.11.2692.
So ATI 3D CIF API can work on Rage XL only with MACXW4 4.11.2573 driver and ati3dcif.dll 4.11.2692.
The speed with ATI 3D CIF under Tomb Raider 800x600 as same as on Rage Pro; Rage LT Pro and Rage XL (OpenGL and D3D are not tested yet). The other chips are slower then this three on Tomb Raider in 800x600.

I have "Tomb Raider: Unfinished Business" (Tomb Raider Gold).
The 2nd CD the Unfinished Business also have "Ati patch" but it is not working (I have tried a lot driver and chip configuration).

All compatible drivers and the Tomb Raider patch available on my site:
http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_3D_CIF/

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI 3D CIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix | Ati drivers for Mac OS Classic | Commodore monitor informations and compatibility

Reply 64 of 71, by Gona

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marxveix wrote on 2020-09-10, 13:16:

Probably latest driver for 3DCIF MACXW4 4.11.2582
https://www.upload.ee/files/12256171/w82582en.zip.html

This driver is mostly the same as Gona RageXL driver R3, with updated macxw4.drv and opengl.

Great finding and good idea/job.
Could you upload the original MACXW4 4.11.2582 (w9x_rpro_5386b6a.zip) package somwhere to my ATi 3D CIF driver archivum and for 3D CIF compatibility tests?
I would like to test it to see if it has the same errors in 3D CIF as the 4.11.2573 and comparing with this modded version too (by all compatible cards).

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI 3D CIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix | Ati drivers for Mac OS Classic | Commodore monitor informations and compatibility

Reply 65 of 71, by marxveix

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Great finding and good idea/job.
Could you upload the original MACXW4 4.11.2582 (w9x_rpro_5386b6a.zip) package somwhere to my ATi 3D CIF driver archivum and for 3D CIF compatibility tests?
I would like to test it to see if it has the same errors in 3D CIF as the 4.11.2573 and comparing with this modded version too (by all compatible cards).

Of course i can, you can download it. w9x_rpro_5386b6a.zip driver was downloaded some time ago from driverguide site and other one from chinese site, that i do not remember. As i remember, with rage pro cards this 5386b6a driver worked well, xl/lt and wipeout maybe not, without any file change, but you have more experience here.

These two drivers are dx6.1 and also 3dcif compatible:
https://www.upload.ee/files/12257581/gona.zip.html

My goal would be put together as good as possible driver for ATi Rage that works well with 3DCIF, Direct3D and OpenGL. Of course it would be more limited with older drivers and the latest seems to be dx6.1 ones, but these Rage cards are also old and can work well in older systems (Celeron/Pentium II 300-400/K6-II/III+ 400-550) with voodoo1or2 and powervr card, like early 3D gaming machine (3in1). I already have similar setup with 3 cards in one pc, it is amd k6-II+ 400@500MHz 1.6v at the moment. XL card is better for power consumption, but rage pro tweaker 1.2 is not working very well with these older drivers, mostly it is little picky with XL cards and overclock option does not work with XL, Powerstrip can help, but i am not so much to overclocking. My first 3D videocard was ATi Rage Pro and i remeber playing NFS3 with it, it worked ok, CPU was Celeron 300A, the fast one.

Extra bonus would be, well working ATi DVD Player, i have 3.10 and 3.2 versions from older times and one even older that started to work good even with original K6 266MHz MMX , no 3DNow, but that with Rage128Pro, not Rage Pro. Need to check, how they work.

I would like to find older verision of rage pro tweaker, this one maybe. If someone has, i would be glad.
https://www.super7.net/software/Rage/rptweaker.html

3D-Demo i did get from Rage Pro Tweaker 1.2 and i just found one older version of it, Public Release 1:
https://www.upload.ee/files/12258377/rageprot … andnew.zip.html

Also, i have not done much for this w82582en driver, mostly your xl r3 files, but direct3d seems to work quite well, even better than 4.11.601 7 HAL, that should be fast Direct3D version. 3dmark 1999 does not work with any macxw4 driver or it is my pc setup question? What Direct3D test would be good to use? For OpenGL i have used Quake II some time ago and 1077 seems to be working well, for newer games maybe 1094 is better, but also slower. Ok for now, already big post for one driver link 😀

Reply 66 of 71, by Gona

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marxveix wrote on 2020-09-10, 20:08:

Of course i can, you can download it.

Thank you much, I'm going to test them.

marxveix wrote on 2020-09-10, 20:08:

My goal would be put together as good as possible driver for ATi Rage that works well with 3DCIF, Direct3D and OpenGL.

I have built a "3D CIF only" system because I have another one for retro Direct3D/OpenGL (Matrox G200+Voodoo1), but for early Direct3D/OpenGL games the Rage Pro also perfect so a 3DCIF, Direct3D and OpenGL system is a good idea.

marxveix wrote on 2020-09-10, 20:08:

I already have similar setup with 3 cards in one pc, it is amd k6-II+ 400@500MHz 1.6v at the moment.

Yes, a 3D Rage with Voodoo1or2 and PCX2 is a great choise because the lot API support: Direct3D; OpenGL; 3D CIF; Glide and SGL. Although PowerVR cards gives a bit better compatibility and performance pairing with a Rendition card (which has also native API: Speedy3D/RRedline) so my PCX2 system will have Vérité 2200 AGP card.

marxveix wrote on 2020-09-10, 20:08:

XL card is better for power consumption, but rage pro tweaker 1.2 is not working very well with these older drivers, mostly it is little picky with XL cards and overclock option does not work with XL, Powerstrip can help, but i am not so much to overclocking. My first 3D videocard was ATi Rage Pro and i remeber playing NFS3 with it, it worked ok, CPU was Celeron 300A, the fast one.

Yes, those times usually later cards have lower power consumption, so XL card sonsumes less power than Rage Pro, and most cases XL can reach the Rage Pro performance, but sometimes XL is 20% slower than Rage Pro.

marxveix wrote on 2020-09-10, 20:08:

3dmark 1999 does not work with any macxw4 driver or it is my pc setup question? What Direct3D test would be good to use? For OpenGL i have used Quake II some time ago and 1077 seems to be working well, for newer games maybe 1094 is better, but also slower. Ok for now, already big post for one driver link 😀

As I remember 3DMark99 has worked for me with Rage Pro and macxw4 driver but I'm not sure what was my PC setup, but most of my 3D CIF tests I have made on an Intel Pentium II 350MHz and BX chipset machine, so likely that was my setup with 3DMark99 too. I'm goin to retest this too. On DirectX 6.x systems testing Direct3D the 3DMark99 is the best, but for earlier DirectX versions and systems 3DMark99 is too much. For DirectX 5 you can use Final Reality and Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire. I like Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire because it writes if has not found a 3D feature (here the bottom picture: https://vintage3d.org/virgedx.php).

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI 3D CIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix | Ati drivers for Mac OS Classic | Commodore monitor informations and compatibility

Reply 67 of 71, by marxveix

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Good news, MACXW4 4.11.2582 is not the latest working 3dcif driver, latest at the moment is 4.11.2611 ATI2DDAD display driver. 3d-demo and wipeout did work well, knight demo did not start out of box and other 3dcif games i have not tested yet. Original file names Z6110C06.exe (5.40 T07 older) and Z6110C07.exe (5.40 BO1S newer), they are both 5.40.0_DELL_ENU.

Dell 4.11.2611 original files inside w82611en.zip (3dcif compatible):
https://www.upload.ee/files/12283139/w82611en.zip.html

Seems that with 4.11.2611 even NFS5 menu and game is working, but with my via mvp3 and chipset driver, that most of ati drivers likes to overwrite, makes sometimes direct3d and opengl unstable, it is maybe better to remove CYRX-ALI.EXE, AMD-SIS.EXE, AMD-VIA.EXE from driver folder and inf file. It is not driver fault, but chipset or via famous drivers for chipset. It is better to find out and install working chipset drivers and settings and after that install ati or other drivers without chipset driver overwritten later on.

There exist Z6110C08.exe but it is 4.11.2635 J5.11.1_OEMS_12Lang-CD and this does not work, but inf file still has lot MACXW4 text inside, like Z6110C06.exe and Z6110C07.exe.

4.11.2635 z6110C08.exe 3dcif does not work:
https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-ee/drive … driverid=r16633

How to add more resolutions to the driver and some more cards to the inf file:
https://www.oocities.org/ziyadhosein/inf.htm

More info about rage pro and drivers (not about 3dcif drivers):
https://www.oocities.org/ziyadhosein/rpro.htm

Reply 68 of 71, by Gona

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marxveix wrote on 2020-09-17, 07:07:

Good news, MACXW4 4.11.2582 is not the latest working 3dcif driver, latest at the moment is 4.11.2611 ATI2DDAD display driver. 3d-demo and wipeout did work well, knight demo did not start out of box and other 3dcif games i have not tested yet. Original file names Z6110C06.exe (5.40 T07 older) and Z6110C07.exe (5.40 BO1S newer), they are both 5.40.0_DELL_ENU.

This is surprising. I'm going to test it too. I'm about mid way of the 4.11.2582 3D CIF testings. It seems to me MACXW4 drivers not likes 3DMark 99 if the DirectX is 6.1 or later. I have succesfully run 3DMark 99 on 3D Rage Pro with MACXW4 4.11.2582 and DirectX 6.0.

marxveix wrote on 2020-09-17, 07:07:

Seems that with 4.11.2611 even NFS5 menu and game is working, but with my via mvp3 and chipset driver, that most of ati drivers likes to overwrite, makes sometimes direct3d and opengl unstable, it is maybe better to remove CYRX-ALI.EXE, AMD-SIS.EXE, AMD-VIA.EXE from driver folder and inf file. It is not driver fault, but chipset or via famous drivers for chipset. It is better to find out and install working chipset drivers and settings and after that install ati or other drivers without chipset driver overwritten later on.

My current test config is an Intel LX with PII 233, after the 3D CIF tests might I will test MVP3 with the included AMD-VIA.EXE too (AMD-VIA.EXE should work with MVP3 with DirectX 6, but for DirectX 7 or later I can imagine it can be problematic).

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI 3D CIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix | Ati drivers for Mac OS Classic | Commodore monitor informations and compatibility

Reply 69 of 71, by marxveix

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Gona wrote on 2020-09-17, 13:32:

This is surprising. I'm going to test it too. I'm about mid way of the 4.11.2582 3D CIF testings. It seems to me MACXW4 drivers not likes 3DMark 99 if the DirectX is 6.1 or later. I have succesfully run 3DMark 99 on 3D Rage Pro with MACXW4 4.11.2582 and DirectX 6.0.

My current test config is an Intel LX with PII 233, after the 3D CIF tests might I will test MVP3 with the included AMD-VIA.EXE too (AMD-VIA.EXE should work with MVP3 with DirectX 6, but for DirectX 7 or later I can imagine it can be problematic).

With 4.11.2611 directx 6.1 and 7.0a is working well with 3dmark99 and win98se, probably even newer directx versions, but 4.11.2611 has direct3d glitches with two tested games, MotoRacer, NFS5 and probably with other direct3d games. Tomb Raider with ati 3dcif patch also working and it works out of box with 2611 and rage lt pro, xl i have, but not tested with 3dcif downgrade , it should work. 4.11.2628/2623 direct3d picture quality seems better, but 3dcif picture not normal if i copy 2628 /2623 ATI2DDAD.DR_ to 2611 driver or use regular 2628/2623 driver. 2628/2623 is also little faster, but it is to do with direct3d hal, so 2611 is on the way with mix of 2628/2623/2611 files, that fixes direct3d glitches that dell 5.40.0 and mitac 5.40.1 has, so i stay with 2611 drv, that still works with 3dcif. I already have well working version of 4.11.2611 with direct3d and 3dcif on my PC, inf update and opengl check/version change on the way.

Downgrade MACXDD16.DLL ( 4.11.5029) and MACXDD32.DLL ( 4.11.5029) did not work for the knight demo and the driver file naming is different for ATI2DDAD 4.11.2611 driver or newer , changed/renamed with ATID16AD.DL_ and ATID32AD.DL_, MACXDD32.DLL is bigger on size, so maybe it is other files, that needs to change or time to make cleen win98se install and start form zero . Also different driver packages and their files sometimes to not work each other, so maybe for this release knight demo will not work, but 3dcif games and little newer direct3d and opengl games will work just fine, even with xl i hope, Gona has more experience with 3dcif, so lets see how it goes.

Not all via agp drivers work with ATi Rage Pro, it is so different from version to version and from one graphics card to another, at least in my mvp3, nvidia geforce2 mx likes best 405b agp driver and via 4.17 agp, probably rage pro also if it would work with these, 4.17 should work, it has rage pro fix for mvp3 and is fast. Via 4in1 4.23 agp driver seems to work with rage pro and my mvp3. Maybe it is time to make ghost backup and start testing in that way, not just installing windows. Even ide driver version makes 3d mark score to change, but graphics drivers and agp drivers are the main components for that, without cpu and gpu overclocking.

If someone has Rage ATI2DDAD drivers between 4.11.2611 and 4.11.2623, let me know, and other 5.40.x drivers as well.
I would like to get this driver (ATI_5401T02.exe), file link broken.
https://www.sony.jp/support/vaio/download/W-D08-U07-0.html

Reply 70 of 71, by Stiletto

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marxveix wrote on 2020-09-18, 09:29:

I would like to get this driver (ATI_5401T02.exe), file link broken.
https://www.sony.jp/support/vaio/download/W-D08-U07-0.html

Might be inside these 459GB, long shot tho: https://archive.org/details/ftp.vaio-link.com

If it's there, it's thanks to VOGONS' cyclone3d: Re: Sony ending downloads for anything prior to Windows 7

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 71 of 71, by Gona

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marxveix wrote on 2020-09-17, 07:07:

There exist Z6110C08.exe but it is 4.11.2635 J5.11.1 ... inf file still has lot MACXW4 text inside...

The Z6110C08 is very different than Z6110C06 and Z6110C07. 6 and 7 are ATI2DDAD but the 8 is ATI2DRAE which is more different. All ATI2DRAB and ATI2DRAE drivers also has a lot MACXW4 text inside the inf but cannot use ATI3DCIF at all. But it seems early ATI2DDAD drivers with Rage PRO and Rage LT Pro can use ATI3DCIF. This was great a found.

marxveix wrote on 2020-09-18, 09:29:

Gona has more experience with 3dcif, so lets see how it goes.

I have finished with 4.11.2582 and 4.11.2611 ATI3DCIF tests. 4.11.2582 is very similar/close to 4.11.2573.
4.11.2611 is a bit different although with MechWarrior 2 it as good as 4.11.2573 and even better because can worh with Rage IIC (2573 and 2582 are freezes with IIC), but unfortunately with ATI3DCIF Tomb Raider 4.11.2611 works only with Rage Pro and Rage LT Pro, and serious errors on Rage XP.
I have updated my tables with the new results, and I have reordered a bit the drivers (all ATI2DDAD drivers go before ATI2DRAB/ATI2DRAE drivers), but there is something problem with my website, because my uploaded updated html still not online.
So temporarily I upload here.

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Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI 3D CIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix | Ati drivers for Mac OS Classic | Commodore monitor informations and compatibility