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connecting IDE and power cables?

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First post, by Odiseo

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Hello, I used to visit this place half a year ago because I was upgrading my old DeskPro system (thread). As this upgrade process was rather unsuccessful, I gave up somewhere in February, and didn't touch the machine for months. Basically, I was trying to install Windows 2000, but the installation process kept failing. A few days ago, I decided to try again. I remembered the last pieces of advice which fillosaurus and vlask gave me, namely to use only paired RAMS and to take out all unnecessary PCI devices (sound card, etc.).

So I did what I was advised to do and turned the power on. After booting the system, it resumed the Windows 2000 installation process. Much to my surprise, it succeeded – either because I had taken out one RAM module or the unnecessary devices (thank you, fillosaurus and vlask). Installation succeeded without any further problems, the machine loaded Windows 2000 and completed some final configuration. The CPU upgrade (AMD K6-2) worked great, and 128MB of RAM were detected. I used it for a time, then powered down, powered back on again, used it some more time. All without any problems.

Then I remembered about the second optical drive (DVD reader; the first optical drive is a regular CD reader) – which I had not yet connected – in the other drive bay. I powered down once more, opened up the case and connected the DVD drive to a power connector that was not in use by another device and used a spare 40-wire IDE cable I had lying around to connect that DVD drive to the secondary connector on the mobo. I also got out two more RAM modules because I was wondering whether the machine was even using all the modules I had inserted (six). I powered back on, but the machine didn’t boot. So I changed the way I had connected the primary and secondary IDE cables (and some power cables too, because I had noticed before that the way power cables are connected on this thing can determine whether the device in question can be operated). When I tried to boot this time, it again failed to do so. After POST the following message came on-screen: “Non-system disk or no disk error. Replace and press any key.”

I can’t remember how the IDE and power cables were connected before, nor after, I tried to connect the DVD drive. I can tell, however, that I have tried about any way I could think of to connect the primary 80-wire cable.

(80-wire cable; 19th pin missing on the connectors)
M |----------------------------------------------------------C-------------------| H
O |----------------------------------------------------------D-------------------| A
B |----------------------------------------------------------D-------------------| R
O |----------------------------------------------------------R-------------------| D
|------------------------------------------------------------I--------------------| D
|------------------------------------------------------------V-------------------| R
|------------------------------------------------------------E-------------------| I
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------| V
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------| E
-----------------------------------------------------------(slave)---------------(master)

I tried this set-up several times. I took care to connect the blue connector to the primary connector on the mobo. In most cases I put the jumper on the hard drive to Master (a few times to CS). I did not connect the CD drive in all cases, but if I did, I always put it to slave. Now that I think of it; sometimes I connected the CD drive to its own cable, which I connected to the secondary connector on the mobo. In these cases, I forgot to make the CD Drive master on its own cable. Since this boot problem started I have left out the DVD drive.

I figured something could be wrong with the hard drive. I got it out, set the jumper to slave, put it in my newer computer and connected it to the middle connector on the 80-wire cable that came with my newer computer. My 120GB hard drive was on the master connector. My Pentium 4 computer booted just fine and I could open up the deskpro hard drive. For testing purposes, I formatted it in Windows XP and then copied some new data to it. The hard drive should be fine.

I figured something could be wrong with the 80-wire cable in the DeskPro. I got it out and connected it to the hard drive in my newer computer (blue connector on the mobo; master connector on the 120GB hard drive). When I then powered on my Pentium 4, it wouldn’t boot. However, when I tried to connect the Pentium 4 80-wire cable in my old Deskpro (blue on the mobo; master on the hard drive), that machine still didn’t boot. Do you think the deskpro 80-wire cable could be broken, or is it possible that the cables of these computers can’t be used in the other computer (for whatever reason)? Oh, and the Pentium 4 80-wire cable works for sure; it’s right now connected to the hard drive in the newer Pentium 4 computer I am writing this text on.

All I need to know is how to connect the IDE and power cables in the Deskpro type of machine. I repeat that right after I had gotten out one RAM module and all PCI devices, the deskpro booted, loaded Windows 2000 and was very stable. No boot errors, slowdowns, lockups, error messages or anything. And I had it reboot and run several times. I was very close to having it work the way I wanted it (save the DVD drive and two of the PCI devices), and then this happened 🙁.

I assume the cause of the hard drive not being detected must either be the IDE cable being incorrectly connected, or having gone faulty. I have already tried some standard advice for this kind of problems (jumper on the HDD to master, HDD on the end of the cable, blue connector on the mobo). That didn't help anything, so maybe the deskpro type of machine requires the IDE cable being connected in another, special way?

Maybe it's the mobo sorting out. How do I check that?

I repeat that the error message I get is the following: “Non-system disk or no disk error. Replace and press any key.”

Thank you!!

EDIT: I can boot the PC to MS-DOS using a Windows 98SE Boot floppy. There still is no hard drive support if I do so, but I would say that the fact the mobo recognizes the floppy drive implies that the mobo is not broken.

EDIT#2: I always make sure to insert the riser board (without the PCI devices inserted).

Last edited by Odiseo on 2010-07-08, 20:11. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 9, by Odiseo

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Update:
I tried to clear the CMOS memory. I first removed the jumper from pins 1-2 (Internal Battery Jumper according to a Deskpro manual I downloaded) and waited a few minutes. According to the manual, to clear the CMOS, the jumper should be put on pins 5-6. The problem is that I only see a fifth pin. There is nothing where pin 6 should be. There is another pin in position 7, but it's quite far from pin 5 so I can't place the jumper on pins 5 and 7 at the same time. So I put the jumper over pin 5 and the small opening where pin 6 should be. I booted and the PC produced the following error messages: "162-System Options Not Set" and "163-Time & Date Not Set". I powered down, removed the jumper from pin 5, waited a few minutes and put the jumper on pins 1-2 again. I powered on the machine once more, it booted and showed the error messages again. It went on to automatically reboot and again showed error message 163 (but not 162). After that, it again showed the earlier error message “Non-system disk or no disk error. Replace and press any key.”

Oh and if I let the PC boot using a WIN98SE boot floppy and then execute FDISK in the command prompt, it produces error message "No fixed disks present". Same for the FORMAT command.

The machine really refuses to detect the hard drive, while I know it works. Floppy disks ARE detected.

Any ideas?

Reply 4 of 9, by Odiseo

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h-a-l-9000 wrote:

On old computers you usually need to configure them for a harddisk in the BIOS setup, they don't have autodetect.

Ooh so even when you put the jumper to master and put the HDD on the end of the cable, an old computer probably won't detect the drive?

I'll buy some new cables tomorrow and a few floppies (I think the floppies on which I saved the compaq BIOS utilities are broken.... even my pentium 4 won't read from them).

Reply 5 of 9, by tikbalang

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Ooh so even when you put the jumper to master and put the HDD on the end of the cable, an old computer probably won't detect the drive?

this is true for both 40 and 80 pin cables. i believe your pc is modern enough to have hdd autodetection in the BIOS since you were able to run win2k. verify and enable it anyway.

KEEP *REDS* CLOSE TOGETHER.

ide ribbon cables and molex power cables (4-wire) both have a distinct RED wire. molex has a specific shape so you can't go wrong (red=5v, black=0v, yellow=12v). most ide cables also has a key or a nulled pinhole to prevent improper insertion. if yours does not have either, look for the single COLORED wire at either edge (can be red, blue or black, solid or striped). this is the marker for PIN1 which should be the edge closest to the red wire of the molex at the hdd end. at the mobo end, the colored wire should go closest the "PIN1" or just "1" label of the slot.

the same is also true for cdroms and 3.5 fdd drives.

ESS PCI DOS Drivers
_________________

Reply 6 of 9, by Odiseo

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My old 80-wire cable must be broken. After I had connected my new round cable the mobo did detect the HDD and the CD-drive. I formatted the HDD, inserted the spectra 400MHz cpu upgrade once more and reinstalled Windows 2000. The system now loads the OS and is stable again. The soundcard and DVD Hardware Decoder card both work.

I do have three remaining problems.

--PROBLEM #1: the RAM memory.

I put in 6 72pin Parity SIMM modules of 32MB each (FPM).
Model: HP Netserver Parity Module, D4892A

picture here: http://www.randomfactory.com/estatesale/office/hp32mb.jpg

I put these RAM modules in slots 3 through 8, but only 4 modules are detected (slots 3-4 and 7-8). The total memory is about 128 Megabytes. After I turn on the system it says "131072KB detected".

Here is what the Compaq BIOS utility has to say about the RAM:

INSPECT - Version PC10.28A =========================== […]
Show full quote

INSPECT - Version PC10.28A
===========================

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Memory :

Memory Boards Identified:
System Board
SIMM Slot 1 . . . . . . . . 0 Megabytes
SIMM Slot 2 . . . . . . . . 0 Megabytes
SIMM Slot 3 (FPM) . . . . . 32 Megabytes
SIMM Slot 4 (FPM) . . . . . 32 Megabytes
SIMM Slot 5 . . . . . . . . 0 Megabytes
SIMM Slot 6 . . . . . . . . 0 Megabytes
SIMM Slot 7 (FPM) . . . . . 32 Megabytes
SIMM Slot 8 (FPM) . . . . . 32 Megabytes
Total Compaq Memory . . . . . . 128 Megabytes

Base Memory
System Total . . . . . . . . . 639 Kbytes
Amount Free . . . . . . . . . 580 Kbytes (594144 Bytes)

Extended Memory
System Total . . . . . . . . . 130048 Kbytes

Expanded Memory
LIM Driver Support . . . . . . LIM driver not loaded

How can I have the system detect all the memory I inserted?

Moreover, I noticed there is a strange opposition between my motherboard and the advice in the Deskpro manual I downloaded. As I already said, I inserted 6 72-pin SIMM modules of 32MB each. However, the manual advises to upgrade the system with 66MHz or faster 168-pin synchronous DRAM DIMMs (unbuffered). The manual goes on to say that "the system board includes three memory module slots". It furthermore mentions that each of these slots supports up to 128MB of memory; the maximum memory supported is "384 Megabytes".

The manual in question is specifically meant for the DeskPro 4000 line of systems, so it's very strange it should mention only three memory slots are installed while I clearly see 8 slots on my motherboard.

Regardless of what the manual says, what type of memory would be best for this system? Can I buy 3 modules of 168-pin DIMMs, 128MB each, and expect them to work in my system? Or do you think they wouldn't even fit in the memory slots?

--PROBLEM #2: the USB controller

The USB Controller I temporarily inserted caused the system to crash while Windows 2000 was loading. Depending on the PCI controller I inserted the USB controller into, this crash could also occur just after Windows had finished loading. I know it wasn't the PCI controllers causing these crashes because the other PCI devices (the DVD hardware decoder and a Voodoo 2) I have so far tested in those controllers did not cause any crashes at all.

Another USB controller of the exact same type has been inserted in my pentium 4 system for months. On that system, the controller shows up as a VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller. It's possible that the USB controller that was in the deskpro is broken. It's night where I live, so any suggestions until I get myself to switch the VIA USB controllers between my two systems?

--PROBLEM #3: The Voodoo 2 card

I inserted a working voodoo 2 card into a working PCI controller and powered up the deskpro. After Windows 2000 had detected the card, I installed the FastVoodoo2 4.0 driver as is described in the documentation on the 3dfxzone.it website. I know the card works because it would play some games under Windows 98SE months ago. I know the PCI controller works because my sound card has worked in it just fine. Any suggestions?

Thank you.

----EDIT----

--PROBLEM #3

The primary graphics card in the deskpro is an integrated Cirrus Logic 5446 PCI Card with 2MB. I connected it to the 3D Voodoo 2 card using the pass-through cable that came with the Voodoo 2. The driver installed correctly, and still the voodoo 2 wouldn't work when I tried to start some 3D games.

Reply 7 of 9, by Odiseo

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I have by now figured out that it's impossible to insert 168-pin RAM modules into 72-pin slots. Still I would need some help with the three problems (RAM modules, USB controller and Voodoo2) I described in my previous post.

(summary) The RAM problem is as follows. I inserted 6 72pin Parity SIMM modules of 32MB each (FPM). 6 times 32MB makes 192MB, but only 128MB is detected. Wat could be the reason for this?

Otherwise, maybe this kind of RAM is far from optimal, so what kind of RAM modules do I need to get most and fastest RAM?

Cirrus Logic CL-GD5446
My primary graphics card has 2MB RAM (through an optional 1MB module), so the maximum resolution it supports is rather low. I did some research and it appears that optional RAM modules providing more than 1MB were never developed for this card.

Is that correct, or did Cirrus Logic in fact produce 2MB or maybe 4MB upgrade modules for the Cirrus Logic series? If they didn't, are there any other ways to get higher resolutions on this type of card?

Reply 8 of 9, by candle_86

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Computer cant use over 128mb its using the Intel 430VX supports 128mb Max ram and 64mb cacheable ram. This means the chipset can only cache 64mb at a time, and that it supports a maximum of 128mb of ram period. This was a value chipset but back in the mid 90's using 128mb of memory wasn't for normal folks, as your desktop shipped with 32mb of ram which was fairly normal for that time. So your stuck with 128mb max or fine a working Super7 board, ATX PSU, and likly have to by 168pin EDO or SD-Ram and an ATX Case.

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