VOGONS


Reply 20 of 151, by Mau1wurf1977

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Yea you will find that building a single machine is always a compromise.

IMO a SS7 system with a fast AMD K6 is the best you can do. It allows you to slow down to a 386DX, various 486 speeds and full speed for W98SE.

For DOSBOx I use D-Fend Reloaded. IMO it's the best frontend out there and it comes with a copy of DOSBox and has auto update. So I would install just that and then things are a lot easier. There is no command line typing needed with D-Fend reloaded!

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
My YouTube channel

Reply 21 of 151, by Tetrium

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sliderider wrote:

There's a Hot433 motherboard on ebay right now but it's a regular auction and there will probably be a lot of VOGONers bidding for that one because they are popular for building fast 486 machines for speed runs as they have a lot of overclocking potential.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dumpster-Diving-Shuttle-H … =item20b705d2dd

This one will go for $$$++!!

Just look at the memory modules and you'll see why...

Reply 23 of 151, by Tetrium

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EscapeVelocity wrote:
That 386 is sweet, but yeah, Ill probably be working on 2 machines. […]
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That 386 is sweet, but yeah, Ill probably be working on 2 machines.

A 486 Dos Box and a Pentium Win98.

Or maybe I should just use DosBox?

I guess I can build and then sell if I go DosBox. Itll be fun.

BTW, Ive been having trouble trying to run DosBox. Ill work on it some more.

Imo you should only bother not using DOSBOX if you're not into playing around with (old) hardware. Generally building the real thing is more expensive and time consuming...but imo also a LOT more fun! 😉

I agree with maulwurf on this one, a SS7 rig is the most flexible you can get regarding what it might cost you.
A 486 is good but requires more dedicated hardware (and probably more time and money) to get right.
SS7 has the advantage of being ATX, is easier to change speeds (remember that 486 class cpu's have just 2 multipliers at the most) and much more "predictable" as the hardware is more alike and better documented.
AND as it's faster, you can play more games with it.

I wouldn't recommend a Voodoo in a 486 machine, imo yopu should look into the S3 Virge and Trio cards. Anything faster in a 486 is basically just a waste (unless you want certain features perhaps). I once build a 486 using a Rendition 2100 and that card wasn't really a good match for it.

Of course there are other options, but all of them are, overall, less flexible and/or harder to set up (for instance, using an unlocked Deschutes on a slot 1 board).

But 1 thing you already done right, you found the right forum for this kind of stuff! 😉

Reply 25 of 151, by Mau1wurf1977

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Tetrium wrote:

SS7 has the advantage of being ATX

ATX is a huge convenience!

Half of my parts are brand spanking new. E.g. the Case is brand new, so is the ATX PSU and the rear Case fan. The IDE DVDRW is also brand new (20x Samsung DVD Burner).

IDE cables, CF cards as HDD substitute, CF > IDE adapter are also all new.

AGP video cards are very easy to get, so is SDRAM Memory. Socket 7 CPUs are cheap and plentiful.

The only thing you need to hunt down somewhat is the SS7 mainboard. But apart from that everything is really easy to obtain.

And as you mentioned it's well documented, Y2000 compliant, most manufacturers still have online download pages (drivers, manual, BIOS, jumper tables).

But still, when I'm done with playing with hardware, I prefer to sit down and play my games with DOSBox 😜

Reply 26 of 151, by sliderider

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Tetrium wrote:
sliderider wrote:

There's a Hot433 motherboard on ebay right now but it's a regular auction and there will probably be a lot of VOGONers bidding for that one because they are popular for building fast 486 machines for speed runs as they have a lot of overclocking potential.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dumpster-Diving-Shuttle-H … =item20b705d2dd

This one will go for $$$++!!

Just look at the memory modules and you'll see why...

256megs in a 486? Is that even possible? The BIOS can't be reading that RAM correctly. If it is reading it correctly, there's 4 RAM slots so you could then theoretically have 512mb which would be wasted in a 486 machine.

Reply 27 of 151, by retro games 100

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If your primary interest/concern is with late 80s to early 90s DOS games, you either want a 386 or a 486. If you go for a 486, it can be effectively slowed down using options I describe at the end of this message.

DOS 6.22 is OK, and can be found easily.

I'm not an expert on ISA or VLB VGA cards. Over the years, I've briefly tested about 30 of them, and none of them provide as good a signal quality as a good PCI video card, if that's an area of concern although it may not be. For PCI, leileilol's suggestion of a S3 Trio 64v+ 2MB is a good one, because it has good compatibility. I like cards manufactured by STB, and they do a S3 Trio 64v+.

SB Pro 2.0 is OK, and also kind of era appropriate for your needs. For your area of interest (80s-90s), you could get an MT-32 or a CM-32L or another variant. There's a small number of games which need a specific version to sound correct. The SCC-1/MIDI will not be era appropriate for your needs, although the old SCC-1 card sounds incredibly good, when listening to games using MIDI music. (Games supporting MIDI began circa '92+.)

As sliderider pointed out, old mobos are getting expensive and thin on the ground. I would grab anything you can for now, and just see how you get on with it. If you have a choice, I like UMC chipset-based PCI 486 boards because you have these flexible bus speed options: 20,25,33,40,50,60,66. The first 4 speeds are useful for slowdown projects, as mentioned at the end of this thread.

Also, the old stuff you need for a 486 system are only the mobo + CPU + RAM + video card + sound card. 486 CPUs aren't rare, neither are 72-pin SIMMs, although some of the older mobos only accept 30-pin SIMMs. Era appropriate video cards aren't rare either. It shouldn't take you long to get a SB Pro 2.0, eg model CT1600. Everything else can be new. That's the ATX PSU, ATX to AT PSU adapter, 5-pin to PS/2 keyboard adapter, PS/2 keyboard, all cabling, 3.5" floppy drive, HDD/CF, and optical drive. I'm not sure which new cases can accept an old 486 mobo. You can buy serial mice fairly easily. Some 486s have PS/2 ports, but not many.

I would recommend a 486 SX-33 CPU. The reason for this can be found at the end of this message.

For a 386 system, just fill up the SIMM bank with whatever it needs. 4MB will do. For an early DOS 486 machine, 4MB will also be OK.

I would recommend an NEC CDR-273 quad speed CD-ROM drive. They are quiet.

Re: 5.25" and 3.5" Floppys. Yes why not.

I would put Windows 9x on a slot 1 Pentium 3 machine. Around the 1GHz speed will cover almost all ground. If you're lucky and you can get a Powerleap adapter, then that can go up to about 1.4-1.5 GHz. A good mobo choice is Asus P2B, but there are lots of others available.

PS. How to slow a 486 down. Please see this thread here. Scroll half way down, and look at the large table. It's a 3DBench benchmarking results table, using a 486 SX-33 CPU. All I do is adjust the mobo's resources, and I get a *very granular* 3DBench results table. And those tests are far from complete. The point is, you can slow a 486 down to achieve a variety of speeds for 286 and 386 games. Other systems won't be as flexible as this, even a 386 itself!

Reply 30 of 151, by EscapeVelocity

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Here is a nice case...

8 BAY AT SMALL TOWER SERVER COMPUTER CASE VINTAGE NEW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem … T#ht_3582wt_818

!BwJP99g!mk~$%28KGrHqN,!hkEv1+0FVpiBMHnB0OTQ!~~_12.JPG

Last edited by EscapeVelocity on 2011-02-13, 22:14. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 32 of 151, by sliderider

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EscapeVelocity wrote:

Dang, I missed this one...

PCI-486 Main Board with AMD P75 CPU Motherboard

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem … T#ht_726wt_1051

I deliberately didn't bid for that because I knew you were looking and thought it might have been you. I'd have gone for it myself had I known it was going to finish so low.

Reply 33 of 151, by EscapeVelocity

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Yeah, I was going to bid on it, but didnt put an autobid in and then missed it doing other things.

Darn. Brand New with Cables and everything. Im really down that I missed it.

Reply 35 of 151, by Mau1wurf1977

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Yea D-Fend Reloaded is awesome.

If you have any questions about it, just send me a message. But some tweaks in advance:

Under Sound set the sample rate's to 49716 (for mixer and Sound Blaster and PC Speaker)

Under graphics make sure:

Full Screen resolution is: 0x0
Start in Full Screen is ticked
Keep correct Aspect Ratio is ticked
Render is ddraw
Scale is Nearest Neighbour... (normal2x)

If old games run too fast a good cycle setting for 386 games is 6000.

Reply 36 of 151, by EscapeVelocity

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What?

Where do you access those? From what I can tell, the designers have loaded a bunch of recommended settings based on individual games, and then there are half a dozen stock configurations to choose from.

Granted I dont even know how to change the info on each game in the main screen.

Reply 37 of 151, by EscapeVelocity

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S3 Virge and Trio cards for maximum compatibility.

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I might look into a Socket 7 set up then, especially if its cheaper and I can find more new parts. Always nice to have new parts.

Does Asus make the best Motherboards?

Thanks for all the tips and sharing your knowledge with a newbie.

Reply 38 of 151, by EscapeVelocity

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SB Pro 2.0 is OK, and also kind of era appropriate for your needs. For your area of interest (80s-90s), you could get an MT-32 or a CM-32L or another variant. There's a small number of games which need a specific version to sound correct. The SCC-1/MIDI will not be era appropriate for your needs, although the old SCC-1 card sounds incredibly good, when listening to games using MIDI music. (Games supporting MIDI began circa '92+.)

From what I understand, retro, The SCC-1 has the SC-55 GS set on it, and is basically a SC-55 on a card, but it also has a MPU-401 interface that I can then hook up a MT-32 with. This will save money, and will give me GM (and Sound Canvas at that) and MT-32 LA standards.