486?

Emulation of old PCs, PC hardware, or PC peripherals.

486?

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-10 @ 07:03

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Postby Stiletto » 2002-7-10 @ 15:52

My thought: I've been scooped.
http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=702857&forum_id=174313

Although I believe the place where I originally heard of it was Kinox (http://www.kinox.org )

I thought it would be nice if Harekiet was working (in the long-run) on 486 emulation, as it is based on - but quite different - of Bochs (http://bochs.sourceforge.net). A useful tool, at any rate.

The correct link to the sourceforge project is here, though: http://sourceforge.net/projects/em486/

I'd never heard of RDOS before, though (http://rdos.net). Reminds me of a similar project, FreeDOS (http://www.freedos.org/).

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Postby Harekiet » 2002-7-10 @ 19:25

This thing was out before as far as i know, i know i've seen it before anyway but thought development on it had stopped. But in a way it's a too perfect cpu emulator like bochs. Although this is done in assembly should be a lot faster then. If you really wanna make a perfectly accurate 386+ emulator you'd loose a lot of speed because of all the internal tables the cpu has to check for just about every action it does.

For dos games you don't need a cpu emulator with all the options supported since dos games will never use them. And don't need to run an operating system on a dos emulator :) Still might be nice to see what a full assembly cpu core would do for speed. The dosemu linux dos emu also has a great cpu emulator with dynamic recompilation. Should be the fastest kind of solution, but that would be bad for cross platform support.

386 protected mode support ain't all that hard to implement anyway it's just a lot of work and testing, feel kinda reluctant to really start on it :)
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Postby Snover » 2002-7-10 @ 19:56

So, is this EM486 bit actually amounting/amounted to anything?
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Postby dyinginformant » 2002-10-05 @ 09:24

Do any of these programs actually help or is it actually better and more compatible to set up a dual boot so I can use Windows 98 and DOS on my Windows XP machine? I mean, then I'll still have the same CPU speed and hardware, but then speed isn't so much an issue right? You use CTBPPAT or similar right?

I still have a 486 machine, but there's no place to set it up anywhere now. I remember playing games on it and it being too fast, but there was a handy "turbo" button right on the machine. Essentially a CPU slower with the press of a button. It was great. I remember totally cheating in Space Quest 4. If anyone has played that game, you know the part where you get a job at the mall making hamburgers? LOL, I would use the turbo button AND Sierra included a speed bar in their games. I could set it so slow. Ofcourse it was not neccessarily easy to play like that, because the mouse cursor movment was also very slow, and it would 'pop' into another place on the screen rather than move smoothly. My brothers actually cheated. I remember being really good at playing that part normally. But you would NEED to use the turbo button or burgers would go zooming across the screen!

Memories... :sly:
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Postby DosFreak » 2002-10-05 @ 14:24

Which programs? Emulators? Yes they do help. Eventually DOS will not run on ANY computer (Well..unless someone decides to recompile it ;) ) Many of the old DOS functions in Video Cards/Computers BIOS'S are disappearing and Emulation IS the future. There is not other choice. Yes old hardware is the best solution for now but that old hardware is disappearing fast....

Well the Turbo button would actually speed up/slow down the processor. Unfortunately there is no Hardware level function on current computers today. Just software programs that "mimick" the function by keeping the processor busy. As you can tell that is not even close to a proper implementation for proper processor slow-down.
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Postby Snover » 2002-10-06 @ 02:51

This 486 (that I still haven't set up, heh) doesn't have a turbo. Maybe that's because it's a desktop (remember those?) and not a tower. Who knows? Maybe it's because the spring for the power button falls out. Who knows? Not me. Do you? I don't.
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Postby dyinginformant » 2002-10-06 @ 03:28

But are these DOS emulators any good NOW, or are they promising in the future only?

Basically I want to know if I should dual boot or can I just use this emulator and games will work fine? I mean, DOS emulation should be perfect from Windows XP, but no, Microsoft wants to kill it off or something. Somehow the games know that it's not the real DOS, and that is not how emulation is supposed to work, right?
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Postby Snover » 2002-10-06 @ 03:36

Bochs can run Windows 95, but I can't vouch for the actual speed of the thing. I also only have Windows 98, so, sucks for me, I guess.
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Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-10-06 @ 19:41

dyinginformant wrote:Do any of these programs actually help or is it actually better and more compatible to set up a dual boot so I can use Windows 98 and DOS on my Windows XP machine?
It depends, some older programs just can't handle running on a modern PC, regardless of the OS you're using. For those, DosBox is something you should check out. I brought up the 486 emulator simply out of curiosity. Not aware of any games running on it at the moment.
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Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-10-06 @ 20:16

dyinginformant wrote:But are these DOS emulators any good NOW, or are they promising in the future only?
The best answer I can give is that they are getting there...

Check out Vlad's compatibility database and look for various reports of compatibility for DosBox.

It varies widely. (IE:It's terrible for "Faery Tale Adventure", but great for "Lost Files of Sherlock Holmes: The Case of the Serrated Scalpel").

Don't even think of trying to run any 486 game with it. It's only for 386 "real-mode" games and earlier.

IOW, Duke3D, etc... Forget it.
[B]Basically I want to know if I should dual boot or can I just use this emulator and games will work fine? I mean, DOS emulation should be perfect from Windows XP,...
Heh. Perfect is a word rarely used with computers. And even then, it's not accurate. No, there is no "just use this and everything will work fine" emulator or setup. That's just the way it is...some thing's will never change... (waits for piano solo to finish).

This why the board was set up, to try and find solutions for these problems. I would use every tool available to help me. I'm presently using a dual-boot between Win98SE and XP, along with DosBox, GliDOS, and "Virtual PC".

BTW, do you have a computer to contact VOGONS in case there's a problem while setting up a dual-boot on your PC?

Also, what kind of PC is it? Dell? Home-made?
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Postby Snover » 2002-10-06 @ 22:05

I still haven't heard from anyone that's used Bochs. *cry* How can it run Windows 95 and have problems with things like Duke3D?
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Postby Harekiet » 2002-10-06 @ 22:34

Well why don't YOU go try it out already then. Although i think it'll run, but the speed is just too horrible to do anything useful with it. Just installing windows 95 takes ages with bochs.
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Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-10-06 @ 23:07

Snover wrote:I still haven't heard from anyone that's used Bochs.
I did. Which is why I'm not using it now.
[B]*cry*
Bloody 'ell. Don't be crying in the forums. Now we gotta wipe that up.
[B] How can it run Windows 95...
I believe that the present procedure calls for setting up Bochs, then grabbing your Win95 CD, then taking LSD and "believe the dream". Bochs doesn't "run" Win95. I don't think it'll "walk" or even "crawl" Win95.

You could start an install and then leave instructions in your will for your descendents about what to do when it finishes.

For a programmer who likes to tinker and compile things, Bochs is neat. for everyone else, it's just an oddity.
[B] ...have problems with things like Duke3D?
Ok, now that's funny. I don't recall getting any game that I tried to work properly in Bochs. Never got the SoundBlaster audio to work either.

You want someone to test this? I recommend you find someone who's feeling very guilty about something and desires to visit great punishment upon themselves.
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Postby dyinginformant » 2002-10-07 @ 05:57

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:BTW, do you have a computer to contact VOGONS in case there's a problem while setting up a dual-boot on your PC?
Also, what kind of PC is it? Dell? Home-made?


I do have two other PCs, but ugh, one is so dirty and infested with teen stuff that I'll keep away from it. And the viruses! I hope my PC can't catch them since it's hooked up on the same network. And even if both of those OTHER PCs are a no go, I have a Dreamcast I can talk to you on. That cool console is not dead in THIS house. I love the thing. Leave it to Sega to screw up something so flawless and with so much potential... Now I'm trying to decide which console to get, and until I decide on ATLEAST one, I'm missing out on MANY games. But oh well, my PC and college keeps me pretty busy and entertained already.

I guess you could call my PC 'homemade' since it has the logo of the PC store I bought it from on it.

[B]You want someone to test this? I recommend you find someone who's feeling very guilty about something and desires to visit great punishment upon themselves.


Wow, if this Bochs sucks so bad, just what is it designed to accomplish? Or maybe it's really in an early stage of development right now. Anyone who tests it tests the beta version, right?
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