VOGONS


First post, by Bop

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I have a bunch of parts lying around and I'm thinking of building a machine capable of playing DOS and Windows games from the 90s.

Parts:

Pentium II 450mhz w/ ASUS P2B-F, 256MB RAM
Intel 486DX2(may not work), no board or RAM
2x40GB IDE HDDs

RivaTNT, 3dfx Voodoo Banshee(Quantum 3d)
3dfx Voodoo1(Diamond) and 2x 3dfx Voodoo II SLI (Canopus)
17" CRT(too big?)

SB Live! (CT4620), SB16(CT1740)
Roland MPU-IPC, MT32

Probably a minor thing or two I'm missing...

I have a copy of Windows 98 SE and I was wondering what pitfalls I need to avoid as it has been a very long time since I have used this hardware and software.

I've been searching these boards for a few days and here are some questions:

Since I am using an MPU-IPC do I not need to worry about the hanging note bug? If I don't, should I just get a SB16 with better SNR (AWE64?) or should I just use the CT1740 or the Live w/ SB16 emulation?

Will the intelligent mode of the MPU-IPC not work with Windows 98? Should I dual-boot with DOS?

If I were to rebuild the 486 PC: I sadly don't have my old floppy games anymore except for x-wing, but have the game files. What would be the best way to copy them over? Is there a good tutorial for formatting and installing DOS 6.2(is 40GB too big a HDD?)?

I apologize if these questions have been answered before, but I haven't seen a direct answer in my search (yet... okay the last question about DOS I haven't looked up 😁 ). I'm really looking forward to playing some classics the way they were intended to be played. 😀

Reply 1 of 11, by DonutKing

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Welcome to the forums!

Since I am using an MPU-IPC do I not need to worry about the hanging note bug?

Correct, MPU-IPC will be fine. Hanging note only occours when using one sound card for both digital audio and MIDI, and then its pretty much only Creative sound blasters that are affected. Since the MPU-IPC is a MIDI only card it's not a problem.
I did notice some occasional hanging notes trying to play some DOS games on a P3-500 with a Yamaha sound card, however I think this is just a timing issue with the faster processor rather than a bug in the sound card. I haven't noticed any hanging notes playing the same games, on the same card, on a 486.

should I just get a SB16 with better SNR (AWE64?) or should I just use the CT1740 or the Live w/ SB16 emulation?

I'd reccomend it 😀 I personally can't stand the hiss and crackle in a CT1740, I was using one for a while until I upgraded to a CT2800, which is a much cleaner sounding SB16. But give it a go, you might not mind it so much.

AWE64 is good but it doesn't have a real OPL3 chip unlike the CT2800, instead it uses creative's CQM FM synthesis. Again, you might not mind the sound of it, and its only going to be an issue in older games that don't support MIDI/MT32 music.
SB LIVE can be a bit iffy working under DOS. It's pretty good for windows though.

Will the intelligent mode of the MPU-IPC not work with Windows 98?

I haven't tried it but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Should I dual-boot with DOS?

win 9x has MS-DOS mode, and you can configure it to come up via a boot menu. So I wouldn't worry about a seperate installation of DOS.
Which brings me to the question about MS-DOS 6.2 on a 40GB hard drive: its too big 😜 You are limited to 2GB partitions with DOS 6.2 however win9x comes with DOS 7 which supports much larger partitions. However, some BIOS versions of that era don't like anything above 32GB either - hopefully there is a BIOS update available for your board if this is the case, otherwise you can usually jumper such drives to limit them to 32GB.

Depending on the age of your 486 board it might not like any drives bigger than 512MB! there are 'dynamic drive overlay' software solutions for this if you are so inclined.

What would be the best way to copy them over?

Burn them to a CD? otherwise install your OS, pul lthe drive and stick it in your main PC and copy the files manually. If you are using win9x just do it over the network. (You can get a network going over DOS but its a lot more complicated. Even then I'd stick to FTP as the easiest method of transfer)
That slot 1 board should have USB on it, just install the Windows mass storage USB driver and you can use USB thumbdrives.There is even a DOS USB driver out there somewhere so you can use thumbdrives under DOS. There are also IDE compact flash adapters so if you have a card reader you can format a CF card with FAT16/32 and copy it that way. Lots of options 😀

Finally, your 450MHz P2 might be too fast for some games. If you need to slow them down, you can try disabling L1 and L2 cache in your BIOS setup. Some games will crash with 'runtime error 200', there is a fix for this here: Fix "Error 200" (Divide by zero) - by Snover and Stiletto (updated!)

Reply 2 of 11, by Bop

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Thanks for the response! I think I will put off rebuilding the 486 system due to the complications and lack of small HDDs. For games that run too fast I may have to use DosBox w/ a USB MT-32 adapter. 🙁 I did just manage to find a CT2890 that is supposed to have the OPL3 chips with the Vibra16-S.

The next thing I am worried about: I realized the MPU-IPC has a fixed IRQ and that ACPI interferes with IRQ9. I don't think I can turn off ACPI for the P2B. Which brings me to this idea:

I found a Pentium MMX 200mhz with a board that has USB and onboard video (which I hope I can disable). I was thinking about splitting the machines so that the 3dfx Voodoo can go into the MMX machine along with the SB16 and Roland equipment.

I was also thinking about using Windows 95 SR2.5 with that machine, but I'm not sure if I'd just be better off sticking with 98 SE again for that box. Though as you stated with the 486 boards, I hope that 40GB is not too big for this Pentium board. Could I partition it on a different system or would the issue simply be the fact that the drive is physically 40GB?

Reply 3 of 11, by Mau1wurf1977

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That Pentium is much better suited for DOS games!

Go into the BIOS and see if there are options to disable / enable L1 and L2 cache. If there is:

L1 and L2 On: Pentium speed
L1 Off and L2 On: 486DX2 speed
L1 Off and L2 Off: 386DX speed

Put the MPU-IPC in the Pentium machine and pair it with a Sound Blaster card of your choice...

99.9% of DOS games will work with this L1 / L2 Cache trick.

The P2 machine I would use solely for W98 or as a Voodoo 3DFX machine.

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Reply 4 of 11, by Bop

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That is a neat trick! Would it still be too fast w/ cache disabled since it is one of the faster Pentiums (200mhz)?

I'll still be putting the Voodoo1 in that machine for Glide DOS games (the voodoo 2s can go into the P2 rig for Windows 3DFX games). I guess the main issue now is getting a 40GB HDD to work with Pentium era boards and Windows 95?

Reply 5 of 11, by Jorpho

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Bop wrote:

Though as you stated with the 486 boards, I hope that 40GB is not too big for this Pentium board. Could I partition it on a different system or would the issue simply be the fact that the drive is physically 40GB?

The issue would be that the drive is physically too big. Partitioning is a software issue. (If there's a problem, you can always check if ASUS has a BIOS update – and pray that you don't fry your BIOS when you try to use it.)

Bop wrote:

That is a neat trick! Would it still be too fast w/ cache disabled since it is one of the faster Pentiums (200mhz)?

...Do you actually plan on running anything with which that might be an issue?

Reply 6 of 11, by Bop

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Jorpho wrote:

Do you actually plan on running anything with which that might be an issue?

I vaguely remember one of the Wing Commander games running way too fast on the Pentium 2 a long time ago.

Reply 7 of 11, by Mau1wurf1977

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Bop wrote:

That is a neat trick! Would it still be too fast w/ cache disabled since it is one of the faster Pentiums (200mhz)?

Nope!

The only other thing that affects performance is the FSB speed. On newer boards you can go up to 100MHz and that gives you a bit control. But nothing major...

Pentiums are my favourite Retro machines 😀

Reply 8 of 11, by RogueTrip2012

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Hey bop.

I think others may know, but if you want to move forward with the 486 machine, Some of these fellas are using small Compact flash cards with CF to IDE adapters.

If using a copy of win95 it is fat16 which limited to 2gb. Dunno about the last version (c) which I though implemented fat32?! You can create multiple 2GB partitions if you wanted to.

Windows 98SE can have a 48bit LBA patch and as long as your either have a mobo with 48-bit support or pci ide controller you can do up to about 2TB under Fat32. If you have no 48bit support you will be limited to about 127gb.

> W98SE . P3 1.4S . 512MB . Q.FX3K . SB Live! . 64GB SSD
>WXP/W8.1 . AMD 960T . 8GB . GTX285 . SB X-Fi . 128GB SSD
> Win XI . i7 12700k . 32GB . GTX1070TI . 512GB NVME

Reply 9 of 11, by Tetrium

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:
Nope! […]
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Bop wrote:

That is a neat trick! Would it still be too fast w/ cache disabled since it is one of the faster Pentiums (200mhz)?

Nope!

The only other thing that affects performance is the FSB speed. On newer boards you can go up to 100MHz and that gives you a bit control. But nothing major...

Pentiums are my favourite Retro machines 😀

I wonder how Sis530 compares to this with it's 133Mhz fsb support?

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Reply 10 of 11, by Mau1wurf1977

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The FSB makes a difference when L1 is disabled and L2 enabled. You'd have a faster 486DX2 with 133 FSB.

The chip also matters. The Cyrix and MMX are the fastest in this case.

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Reply 11 of 11, by Bop

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Ok so I got some parts for the Pentium MMX machine, but I'm having problems.

I have one Intel AN430TX board which works, but has no cache options. Takes FOREVER to scan for disks at boot.

I also got an Iwill XA100 Plus, but I cannot even get a CMOS beep out of that board. I'm positive the jumpers are set correctly and I tried reseting the CMOS and changing batteries. No sign of life yet aside from a green light on the bottom of the board.

Also, the previous owner of this MT-32 bundled it with a 16V AC output adapter, but the MT-32 calls for 9v DC output. I hope this unit is not damaged before I even try to use it!