Welcome to VOGONS!

Yes, prices for old PCs have definitely increased. Gone are the days of getting them for free.

But several hundred dollars is definitely too much, unless there are reasons for the high price (good brand, selective parts...).

Especially Pentium PCs shouldn't be that hard to fine. Easier and cheaper than 386 and 486 PCs for sure.

Building an old gaming PC is about the whole experience, including the challenges, frustration and excitement that brings.
I grew up gaming in DOS so the nostalgia trip was a big draw for me.

If you just want to play a few old games and aren't interested in the systems of the era, just use Dosbox. It's easier and cheaper.

The hardware shouldn't cost much, or anything at all in some cases. I vote for dosbox for now and then just keep your eyes peeled for a retro machine. I've found some decent stuff - including Pentium era - just sitting on the side of the road, walking distance from my house.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Welcome to VOGONS! […]
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Welcome to VOGONS!

Yes, prices for old PCs have definitely increased. Gone are the days of getting them for free.

But several hundred dollars is definitely too much, unless there are reasons for the high price (good brand, selective parts...).

Especially Pentium PCs shouldn't be that hard to fine. Easier and cheaper than 386 and 486 PCs for sure.

Thanks for the reply. It may interest you to know that earlier I discovered your Roland vs. Yamaha video on YouTube a couple of days ago. That brought back memories. I prefer the sound of the Yamaha FWIW. MIDI and music modules were my biggest music source in days before MPEG audio compression became practical.

But that got me thinking, so I popped on over to Ebay to check prices on old machines, and people are expecting $250-$300 for a Slot 1, Socket 5 or Socket 7 machine. It's crazy. 🙁 I wonder if the retro scene is driving prices up on authentic hardware.

- John

Don't take those prices as something people are actually buying. A socket 7 and slot 1 system should be very cheap to acquire if you can't find one for free/cheap locally. Just to picture how cheap slot 1 is atm, I've been trying to sell a slot 1 mb with ram and CPU for 20 euro and not a single person was interested.... (I'm not trying to promote anything here, just as an example of how low price slot 1 stuff is)

Well, I'll keep checking, but it's looking like Ebay is a ridiculous waste for sure. Never did much care for Ebay either.

What I'd really like is something from the HP Vectra line. That's a big part of what I grew up with.

- John

As always, the most important question is: what, exactly, do you want to play?

If you have something specific in mind, you might as well give it a whirl in DOSBox, as it is a heckuva lot easier to set up than an actual PC and may satisfy whatever cravings you have.

If you want to play "Everything!!!", then I guarantee you will never come anywhere close to playing Everything, and will almost certainly spend orders of magnitude more time trying to find the perfect combination of hardware that will play Everything than you will ever spend playing Anything.

EDIT: An HP Vectra may very well come with specialized OEM parts that may have bizarre compatibility problems, or require specific versions of drivers that may be difficult to find.

Some Vectras had some on board stuff like S3 Video and "SB16 Compatible" sound, but they also had a pretty generous supply of ISA and PCI slots that could be used instead. Plus, they were built like tanks. I know enough to not get locked into one chipset.

As for what I want to do, that's a harder question, but being able to play old DOS games and music applications is cool in and of itself. Plus I could try different sound card setups. I think DOSBox only does MT-32, SBPro, and GUS.

- John

Kensuke_Aida, I'm from Russia, where ebay is not quite an option, as a lot of packages are lost in customs and international post services. I never purchased retro hardware on ebay and I still have a lot of fun with it.

I got my first retro pc, 386SX-40 for 3.3 USD and my socket 7 system for 6.6 USD. I suggest you try local message boards and notice boards showing goods in your city. Going to some sort of flea market might do as well.

You should also tell other vogons members where you are from. If you lived like next door, I would be happy to share a socket 7 system with you. We all have parts we're done playing with.

Kensuke_Aida wrote:

I think DOSBox only does MT-32, SBPro, and GUS.

That's already huge. Good luck finding real MT-32 and GUS 😀

FWIW, I'm in Phoenix, AZ.

I think its far more fun to build your retro PC from parts if your era of PC gaming is above the 286 level of performance than to buy an OEM or pre-built system. If you are patient you can score decent parts for cheap.

Jorpho wrote:

If you want to play "Everything!!!", then I guarantee you will never come anywhere close to playing Everything, and will almost certainly spend orders of magnitude more time trying to find the perfect combination of hardware that will play Everything than you will ever spend playing Anything.

That is an extremely succinct piece of wisdom, but I would add to the end of it "and you will still fail to play Everything."

Incidentally, a HP vectra was one of the machines I've found on the side of the road. It was a 200MMX and a great retro machine because like you say, it was built like a tank and all of the relevant drivers - DOS included - were still available on their website!

If you want to play everything you need at least 3 machines. A pentium MMX or faster. A 386DX40 or a 486 with cache you can deactivate. And an XT/CGA or Tandy.

Look locally first, and get whatever is available. It's all fun to play with. Pentium iiis are still pretty available, and pretty good for DOS. These were the fastest computers with ISA slots, which is important for good sound support in DOS. Most games of the pentium era were timed properly, so they'll run fine on a machine that fast. For a lot of older games, disabling cache will slow it down to a playable level. But still, for games from the 80s, you're going to want a Tandy.

Kensuke_Aida wrote:

Thanks for the reply. It may interest you to know that earlier I discovered your Roland vs. Yamaha video on YouTube a couple of days ago. That brought back memories. I prefer the sound of the Yamaha FWIW. MIDI and music modules were my biggest music source in days before MPEG audio compression became practical.

But that got me thinking, so I popped on over to Ebay to check prices on old machines, and people are expecting $250-$300 for a Slot 1, Socket 5 or Socket 7 machine. It's crazy. 🙁 I wonder if the retro scene is driving prices up on authentic hardware.

- John

That's nice to hear! Now Yamaha also do external MIDI modules, so you can use these with DOSBox via USB to MIDI adapters.

I'm working on a new video, building a DOS gaming time-machine. I like using a mix of old and new parts: Easier to work with, cheaper and more flexible.

The main part you need is a Socket 7 board. They come in AT and ATX form factors. ATX boards are harder to find, but easier to work with and you can use ATX cases and power supplies.

Check out this cute little Pentium: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Unisys-Cwd5001-ZA- … =item3a5619382c

Only has a single ISA slot, but with an AWE64 and external Yamaha module you can run a ton of games.

In terms of market, there is a TON of stuff on eBay USA. Don't give up on eBay just yet.

But in general, retro gaming isn't cheap anyway. Most of us here went through a "journey" of sourcing computers and parts and spent quite a bit more coin that 300 bucks 😵

They will also rob you of time and cause you to rage once in a while 😵

DOSBox on the other hand simply works. Spend some time reading the manual and learning the settings for sounds, graphics and mounting drives. Or use D-Fend reloaded, a front-end with DOSBox that I can highly recommend.

I made a mega tutorial about buying DOSBox games from GOG.com and tweaking them (they are usually configured quite poorly).

And remember you can hook up external MIDI devices without issues 😀

I think Pentiums are a good choice. Typically runs most programs, 1981-1995. After that, it depends on the program - there were programs released 1999 that ostensibly required 66Mhz. As for DOS, I never had a whit of trouble with that type of system.

Specific games will always cause trouble, though. I wanted to run Betrayal at Antara, which unfortunately is in real mode, but also frustratingly requires some horsepower to render. Finally, as if that wasn't bad enough, it's a Windows program, so no DOSbox.

Basically, it does pretty nice on a P200MMX. It crawls at 133Mhz or below (in spite of what the box says), and 233 or higher...well...the landscape moves so fast you can't tell what's happening!

Based purely on my experience, I therefore suggest a P166 or P200 to bridge that gap of compatibility and power.

hwh wrote:

Basically, it does pretty nice on a P200MMX. It crawls at 133Mhz or below (in spite of what the box says), and 233 or higher...well...the landscape moves so fast you can't tell what's happening!

They would not be selling Antara at http://www.gog.com/gamecard/betrayal_at_krondor if there was not some simple way around the speed problem.

Old hardware costs next to nothing (i've been through loads now!)... Unless you're buying off ebay in the US! Their prices always seem a bit steep for stuff that most people give away or dump.

The real cost comes in getting it to work correctly, especially since some stuff is being dumped for a good reason.

A Pentium 3 system is a relatively inexpensive way to play games 'as is' and yet powerful enough to run DosBox if they won't run on that hardware directly. Pentium 3 systems are still ubiquitous, and they have much more compatibility with modern parts, like displays, mice, keyboards, network cables. With such systems you can even use USB peripherals (keyboards, mice, flash drives), provided you install some additional drivers.

I don't really know what are US prices (except for relatively expensive ebay), but in Russia you can get a working Pentium 3 system (not a perfect one, just 'some' system) with a games-compatible ISA soundcard for, like, 20 bucks. You'll also need a Windows 98SE to run legacy games properly, because most Pentium 3 systems have a Windows XP installed over them. I could get one for another 20 bucks.

Don't spend hundreds of $ on your first legacy system, since you don't have the experience to tell a system you want from one you don't. You will probably end regretting your spent money. Start with something cheap.