Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Emulation of old PCs, PC hardware, or PC peripherals.

Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lowenz » 2017-1-19 @ 20:41

Thanks!
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby ZellSF » 2017-2-06 @ 20:35

Question, does this sound correct:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uejMfP0e-y8
It's using ALchemy with Creative Software 3D Library.

Some things just sound weird, like:

1: Chopper sequence. I guess everything here is supposed to be drowned out by the chopper and minigun, but still.
2: Sound changing drastically according to camera angle at times. But that might just show that the game engine wasn't quite optimized for EAX.
3: Gunfire being silent from a distance

Just not sure, I never played SiN and actually used to turn off EAX effects even when I had a EAX card as I always found the reverb to sound so fake in most games...

Software for comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-7GJwJ_T_Y
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby betamax80 » 2017-2-07 @ 16:27

Not sure if you got the answer you want but Creative actually have their OWN emulation package. If you have a Realtek chip on board, they sell a thing called "MB3" and it gives you EAX Advanced HD. Works on Windows 10 but a bit oddly, was designed for 8.1
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2017-2-07 @ 19:59

betamax80 wrote:Not sure if you got the answer you want but Creative actually have their OWN emulation package. If you have a Realtek chip on board, they sell a thing called "MB3" and it gives you EAX Advanced HD. Works on Windows 10 but a bit oddly, was designed for 8.1


MB3 is software solution ie. emulation, and can be hacked to support all audio devices.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby ZellSF » 2017-2-08 @ 08:41

If that's a reply to me, yes, I know, that's what I'm using.

My question is if it sounds right and eventually why it sounds wrong. Personally I think it sounds just like the game itself is being a bit weird (since it's good some places and less good others) and it's not ALchemy's emulation being wrong.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lowenz » 2017-3-10 @ 18:40

Nucleoprotein, can you build the lastest git version? 'cause I got serious crashes with that and I want to know if it's VS 2017 or some recent update to the code.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2017-3-10 @ 18:56

lowenz wrote:Nucleoprotein, can you build the lastest git version? 'cause I got serious crashes with that and I want to know if it's VS 2017 or some recent update to the code.

You mean OpenAL Soft ? Here:
http://www86.zippyshare.com/v/zkcdxYnY/file.html
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lowenz » 2017-3-11 @ 12:13

Thanks, same crashes. So it's not me.
You can test in UT3, crash after the intro videos (@ login).
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2017-3-12 @ 11:43

New Alchemy (2.4.2.12 found in SBP3_PCDRV_L12_1_00_06) info (HOAL is same as before):

  • Alchemy dsound.dll 2.4.2.12: 0x64A10 -> 0x40 0xC3
    • Force Passtrough to ct_oal.dll 0x18480 -> 0x40 0xC3
  • Sens_oal (32bit) 2.02.20.3090: 0xE0A50 -> 0x40 0xC3
  • Sens_oal (64bit) 2.02.20.3090: 0x1189E0 -> 0x40 0xC3

PS: 0x40 0xC3 is:
Code: Select all
inc eax
ret
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby jeckhack » 2017-3-13 @ 00:26

Hi everybody! Registered in the forum because of this thread.
Want to thank people who spent their time to find all the interesting things posted in this thread.
I just want to share what I think about HOAL and Alchemy:

I use Alchemy in software mode currently, on realtek + x-fi mb3.
HOAL works good only if particular game uses EAX. It adds some awful reverb otherwise.
Example: Load any eax game using HOAL (sens_oal > ct_oal trick), test with eax on \ off.
Fallout 3 uses DS3D, and it freezes using alchemy, no matter what buffers \ duration you choose. But if you use HOAL, game doesn't freeze and 3d sound works, but you have awful reverb, just like you set some "Bathroom" eax preset.
And even if game uses EAX, the exact same bathroom-like sound happens when particular sounds ingame doesn't use eax.
Example: Launch F.E.A.R., first intro scene when your team discusses situation in front of cctv screens. I think this scene doesn't use EAX, but when you use HOAL, voices are under reverb effect. 30 seconds later when you ride in car with your boss, his voice isn't EAX'ed when you use just alchemy. His laptop keyboard has proper suitable slight reverb. If you use HOAL, his voice uses bathroom-like reverb. So, every ingame sound not covered by EAX has some awful reverb.
What I want to say is that HOAL has exactly the same EAX quality as Alchemy's "creative software 3d library". In fact, I think that alchemy's dsound.dll has some part of HOAL's EAX code built in (I'm not programmer, I don't know for sure), and when we trick alchemy to se HOAL directly it messes things up in a way that HOAL freaks out when a game doesn't use EAX.

Maybe someone has some thoughts about this situation. Is there a way to stop HOAL from reverbing on non-EAXed sounds?

P.S. And emulation quality is... yes, it differs from game to game. Mafia and Hitman BM, for example, sound the same with alchemy-software and my old Audigy 4 on XP. But Tomb Raider AOD, which was tested on youtube, has significant degradation in EAX quality no matter what you use - HOAL or dsound.dll
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lowenz » 2017-4-26 @ 00:02

lowenz wrote:Thanks, same crashes. So it's not me.
You can test in UT3, crash after the intro videos (@ login).

New updated master from github is working.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lowenz » 2017-4-30 @ 21:50

Nucleoprotein, can you release a new version of WIP binaries (with the configurator too)? Thanks!
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2017-5-01 @ 07:47

lowenz wrote:Nucleoprotein, can you release a new version of WIP binaries (with the configurator too)? Thanks!


http://www65.zippyshare.com/v/09r6cHxh/file.html

PS: VS2017 build
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lowenz » 2017-5-01 @ 09:53

Thanks!
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby RealSpArTeN » 2017-6-16 @ 05:29

Nucleoprotein wrote:New Alchemy (2.4.2.12 found in SBP3_PCDRV_L12_1_00_06) info (HOAL is same as before):

  • Alchemy dsound.dll 2.4.2.12: 0x64A10 -> 0x40 0xC3
    • Force Passtrough to ct_oal.dll 0x18480 -> 0x40 0xC3
  • Sens_oal (32bit) 2.02.20.3090: 0xE0A50 -> 0x40 0xC3
  • Sens_oal (64bit) 2.02.20.3090: 0x1189E0 -> 0x40 0xC3

PS: 0x40 0xC3 is:
Code: Select all
inc eax
ret


Looks like HOAL was just updated...SBP3_PCDRV_L12_1_01_06 driver available (sens_oal version 2.02.20.3093)

Also, has anyone been able to get surround sound working with FEAR? Tried everything to no avail
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby ZellSF » 2017-6-18 @ 10:40

RealSpArTeN wrote:
Nucleoprotein wrote:New Alchemy (2.4.2.12 found in SBP3_PCDRV_L12_1_00_06) info (HOAL is same as before):

  • Alchemy dsound.dll 2.4.2.12: 0x64A10 -> 0x40 0xC3
    • Force Passtrough to ct_oal.dll 0x18480 -> 0x40 0xC3
  • Sens_oal (32bit) 2.02.20.3090: 0xE0A50 -> 0x40 0xC3
  • Sens_oal (64bit) 2.02.20.3090: 0x1189E0 -> 0x40 0xC3

PS: 0x40 0xC3 is:
Code: Select all
inc eax
ret


Looks like HOAL was just updated...SBP3_PCDRV_L12_1_01_06 driver available (sens_oal version 2.02.20.3093)

Also, has anyone been able to get surround sound working with FEAR? Tried everything to no avail

I did manage to get surround sound working with FEAR on Windows 10. So it's definitely possible. I don't remember how though.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2017-6-18 @ 11:14

Alchemy 1.45.12 & HOAL 2.02.93 found in SBP3_PCDRV_L12_1_01_06

  • Alchemy dsound.dll 2.4.2.12: 0x64A10 -> 0x40 0xC3
    • Force Passtrough to ct_oal.dll 0x18480 -> 0x40 0xC3
  • Sens_oal (32bit) 2.02.20.3093: 0xE0A70 -> 0x40 0xC3
  • Sens_oal (64bit) 2.02.20.3093: 0x118A30-> 0x40 0xC3
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby flyingsaucer » 2017-8-02 @ 04:20

@Nucleoprotein
First all thanks for info.
Now exist this one SBP3_PCDRV_L12_1_01_07 (5 july 2017) maybe something new inside. OpenAL Soft 1.18.1 is now available, could you please do a new compile from git.
Only one question what is better to have openal support on Windows 7 64bit with Sound Blaster Audigy Rx? Maybe use only dll inside game directory and not a system wide install?
What do you use?
@ everyone
Maybe a bit OT. There's a way to redirect all system wide audio to openal-soft? In this way it's possible give HRTF to everything, for games and audio application. But must be possible feed openal-soft with not only two channels but also with 5.1 or 7.1 for example. In this way also modern games that has no hrtf could benefit. We could set speaker out to maximum channels inside app or game and then give these information to openal maybe in asio mode using a virtual audio cable.
Thanks in advance
Tony
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lowenz » 2017-8-14 @ 16:08

About Soft OpenAL, you know that it can resurrect a "dead" game like Turning Point - Fall of Liberty?

The game is a failed bloakbuster (kind of a BLOATbuster :D ) as we all know, but what a sound with Soft OpenAL! (DLL in binaries folder + empty device name in ini file)
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Sir_Tuttles » 2017-8-15 @ 06:08

If there's anyone who happens to have Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and is willing to check something for me...

When using my Audigy 4 with ALchemy ( native enabled ), the goggles seem to double up on the clicking sound played when enabling or disabling a vision mode.

This doesn't occur when using the Creative Software 3D Library. I wanted to try using HOAL but can't seem to get passed "Native device not default"

Unfortunately I can't really test in XP because basically every aspect of my hardware lacks Windows XP drivers :dead:
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