Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Emulation of old PCs, PC hardware, or PC peripherals.

Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2016-8-15 @ 21:12

I think somebody copy-pasted my post there, and it work - I not find that somewhere in internet, I done that myself :evil: like GenKGA - which some friend of my seems to share to whole internet (really old version with not many KGA). I have posted newer sources somewhere over here in my post (pastebin link).

@Andoi
Then you done something wrong.
SHA1 -after- patch: 14a4d8028de795210cfb8e2d5ba7e0cea8fab9b6 *dsound.dll
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Andoi » 2016-8-16 @ 06:08

I now have the newest ALchemy and HOAL installed. Applied the patches again. SHA1 of dsound.dll after patch is:
14A4D8028DE795210CFB8E2D5BA7E0CEA8FAB9B6
Which is the same as yours. So something isn't working in the ALchemy chain. ;)
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2016-8-16 @ 09:02

EAX4 works fine wih MS drivers on old ASUS AD2000B in Windows 10: http://imgur.com/a/HsUTi

EDIT: Ahh, you want to get hardware device ... is not possible, is possible only on Creative OpenAL, HOAL is NOT native Creative OpenAL, it's part of EAX emulation.
So:
Code: Select all
Using Creative Software 3D Library

Is normal emulated EAX.

PS: Even latest Creative card by default get software emulation mode because they luck of hardware support for EAX, only older cards like XFi works in native mode.
PS2: EAX in dsound.dll and HOAL seems to be emulated in very different ways, HOAL IMHO sounds terrible.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby mirh » 2016-8-16 @ 16:23

Nucleoprotein wrote:EDIT: Ahh, you want to get hardware device ... is not possible, is possible only on Creative OpenAL, HOAL is NOT native Creative OpenAL, it's part of EAX emulation.
There's no "Creative OpenAL".
Or a bit more precisely: all OpenAL belong to Creative, but there's none special outside normal one.

Then I don't know what's the deal with HOAL..
It's only a software *native* OAL device (just like OpenAL Soft), just with EAX support.
Nucleoprotein wrote:PS: Even latest Creative card by default get software emulation mode because they luck of hardware support for EAX, only older cards like XFi works in native mode.
You sure, in your testings, not to have been tricked by Creative's locks?
Nucleoprotein wrote:PS2: EAX in dsound.dll and HOAL seems to be emulated in very different ways, HOAL IMHO sounds terrible.
Dsound.dll is just the "interface" through which the game is wrapped around restored directsound... The frontend in some ways.
HOAL if any is the backend that does the required processing.
But regardless wherever we are talking about ct_oal or sens_oal, it should still be an improvement over dumbest generic "Software 3D Library".

hopes he's not that Nucleoprotein
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby MST » 2016-8-16 @ 16:31

Nucleoprotein wrote:Sens_oal (32bit) 2.02.20.3090: 0xE0A50 -> 0x40 0xC3
Sens_oal (64bit) 2.02.20.3090: 0x1189E0 -> 0x40 0xC3
You do not really need any license generator or X-Fi MB3/5 to run Alchemy/HOAL.

Not really. Before HOAL 2.02.80, like 2.02.76, 2.02.73, 2.02.51, 2.00.09 Sens_oal.dll was protected using SafeDisc 2.80.012, so patching was not easy. Then your keygen was easier way. From HOAL 2.02.80, 2.02.85, 2.02.90 dll is not protected and it is patchable.

Nucleoprotein wrote:I think somebody copy-pasted my post there, and it work - I not find that somewhere in internet, I done that myself

I do not doubt. Respect!
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2016-8-16 @ 16:56

mirh wrote:hopes he's not that Nucleoprotein


It's the same one and I know what I tell you. (I needed some reversing skills to create InputHook for x360ce - but even today FarCry 4 does not work :( - VMProtect is too hard for me)
ALchemy dsound.dll IS NOT only interface for OpenAL is a full emulation in it - I do not have HOAL installed and EAX is working fine (emulated).

@MST
Yes, old ones have Safedisk encryption.

PS: GenKGA was created with my friend long time ago and shared only to our friends so I think one of our friends leaked it to internet :/
EDIT: Sens_oal is only for EAX support under OpenAL for cards that do not support Creative native OpenAL (ct_oal).
EDIT2: Correction, I do not have ALchemy installed to, using only DLL unpacked from installer and copy-pasted to game directory.
EDIT3: @mirh Why you hope that me is not me :P? I sold my Audigy 4 because drivers was terrible, then my friend asked about EAX in CODUO, and then GenKGA was born.
EDIT4: And bought Xonar DX with even worse drivers :D I even have written some stuff for UniXonar drivers like front panel headphones switcher. I sold Xonar few years ago.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby mirh » 2016-8-16 @ 19:07

Nucleoprotein wrote:(but even today FarCry 4 does not work :( - VMProtect is too hard for me)
Well, what can I say? In nefarius new feat we trust.
Nucleoprotein wrote:ALchemy dsound.dll IS NOT only interface for OpenAL is a full emulation in it
Yes, sorry, clearly there is where Software Library must be implemented. But that's the fallback path after all.
Nucleoprotein wrote:I do not have HOAL installed and EAX is working fine (emulated).
And we'd be telling you with HOAL it should be better?
Nucleoprotein wrote:Yes, old ones have Safedisk encryption.
Which tbh nowdays doesn't look all that cumbersome.
Nucleoprotein wrote:EDIT: Sens_oal is only for EAX support under OpenAL for cards that do not support Creative native OpenAL (ct_oal).
And isn't that exactly our case?
Also please, just say "cards without Creative native OpenAL device". It sounds odd otherwise and some dumb might think there's a "special openal" API
Nucleoprotein wrote:EDIT3: @mirh Why you hope that me is not me :P? I sold my Audigy 4 because drivers was terrible, then my friend asked about EAX in CODUO, and then GenKGA was born.
Cause you aren't the first person that I randomly continue to find around the net and it starts to feel creepy to chat more here than irl :dead:
Anyway audigy isn't all that bad with right shit
Nucleoprotein wrote:EDIT4: And bought Xonar DX with even worse drivers :D I even have written some stuff for UniXonar drivers like front panel headphones switcher. I sold Xonar few years ago.
MRW I had you around for the most part of the last half decade.
Besides, I really never had problems with UniXonar and I'm relatively happy, for as much in the last 5 years its utility quite decreased.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2016-8-16 @ 19:51

mirh wrote:And we'd be telling you with HOAL it should be better?

For my current finding dsound.dll is not capable to use HOAL as output, but I need to recheck this.

mirh wrote:Also please, just say "cards without Creative native OpenAL device". It sounds odd otherwise and some dumb might think there's a "special openal" API

Even better word is OpenAL implementation or ICD (like OpenGL ICD)

mirh wrote:Cause you aren't the first person that I randomly continue to find around the net and it starts to feel creepy to chat more here than irl :dead:

Yes, we are everywhere ! :cool: Hurry! Open refrigerator, I'm freezing in there !

EDIT: OT @mirh: https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/commen ... se42_cpus/ YEY somebody from AMD seen this !
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby mirh » 2016-8-16 @ 22:29

Nucleoprotein wrote:For my current finding dsound.dll is not capable to use HOAL as output, but I need to recheck this.
So I hope you'll retest it, taking into account great MST findings.
Nucleoprotein wrote:Even better word is OpenAL implementation or ICD (like OpenGL ICD)
Mhh.. implementation is semantically better, you are right.
Devices are what stands after implementations.
Nucleoprotein wrote:EDIT: OT @mirh: https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/commen ... se42_cpus/ YEY somebody from AMD seen this !
Mhh.. That doesn't really seem like an AMD employee.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Andoi » 2016-8-17 @ 06:48

Nucleoprotein wrote:EDIT: Ahh, you want to get hardware device ... is not possible, is possible only on Creative OpenAL, HOAL is NOT native Creative OpenAL, it's part of EAX emulation.
So:
Code: Select all
Using Creative Software 3D Library

Is normal emulated EAX.

Can we all agree on this? Step 8 in this post seems to imply that all device restrictions could be lifted and ALchemy could be used on any soundcard (even onboard).
If "Creative Software 3D Library" is the best I can get then my journey ends here. ;) Thanks for your help and helpful thread!
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2016-8-17 @ 07:23

Andoi wrote:
Nucleoprotein wrote:EDIT: Ahh, you want to get hardware device ... is not possible, is possible only on Creative OpenAL, HOAL is NOT native Creative OpenAL, it's part of EAX emulation.
So:
Code: Select all
Using Creative Software 3D Library

Is normal emulated EAX.

Can we all agree on this? Step 8 in this post seems to imply that all device restrictions could be lifted and ALchemy could be used on any soundcard (even onboard).
If "Creative Software 3D Library" is the best I can get then my journey ends here. ;) Thanks for your help and helpful thread!


If ct_oal in that package was real Creative implementation then is worth to try, if it was renamed HOAL - is not.

EDIT:
Yep, works only with HOAL so it's you only change what emulates EAX, HOAL or dsound.dll ...
Magic now: Alchemy dsound.dll 2.4.2.10: 0x13767 -> 0x90 0x90 will force native renderer, you need to copy HAOL dll file ie. sens_oal.dll to ct_oal.dll and place it in proper system directory.
ie. "Using Native OpenAL Renderer" means only that dsound.dll is passing trough ct_oal.dll, if ct_oal.dll is native hardware implementation - then yes, it will provide full hardware based EAX.
And "Native Device not default" can happen also when ct_oal.dll does NOT provide EAX support.

PS: HOAL EAX implementation is worse I think so using it do not make any improvement, it can cause too much reverb.

EDIT: Above magic forces passtrough to ct_oal.dll always so will crash if not present and DisableNativeAL=true (yes, true, 1 will NOT work) will not work too so better magic is:
Alchemy dsound.dll 2.4.2.10: 0x183B0 -> 0x40 0xC3
Then with DisableNativeAL=true will work as software, and without it will passtrough to ct_oal.dll

EDIT: I wonder is this OpenAL implementation supports EAX : http://www.blueripplesound.com/products/rapture-3d-user - special version of this is used in Dirt games. //EDIT: it does not: http://www.blueripplesound.com/compatible-games
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby mudlord » 2016-8-19 @ 02:48

Nucleoprotein wrote:
mirh wrote:hopes he's not that Nucleoprotein


It's the same one and I know what I tell you. (I needed some reversing skills to create InputHook for x360ce - but even today FarCry 4 does not work :( - VMProtect is too hard for me)


If VMProtect 2 is hard, wait till you see VMProtect3/Denuvo. Securom 7 was also infested in virtualized code hell. That said, I do know some people that are into VMProtect/Obsidium/Denuvo stuff, but dunno if they are invested into game reversing much sadly. D:

Amusing thing: Windows 10 Anniversary Update completely broke my antiantidebug tools D:, had to go back to plain Win10 for debugging things.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby RealSpArTeN » 2016-8-22 @ 06:08

Nucleoprotein wrote:EDIT:
Yep, works only with HOAL so it's you only change what emulates EAX, HOAL or dsound.dll ...
Magic now: Alchemy dsound.dll 2.4.2.10: 0x13767 -> 0x90 0x90 will force native renderer, you need to copy HAOL dll file ie. sens_oal.dll to ct_oal.dll and place it in proper system directory.
ie. "Using Native OpenAL Renderer" means only that dsound.dll is passing trough ct_oal.dll, if ct_oal.dll is native hardware implementation - then yes, it will provide full hardware based EAX.
And "Native Device not default" can happen also when ct_oal.dll does NOT provide EAX support.

PS: HOAL EAX implementation is worse I think so using it do not make any improvement, it can cause too much reverb.

EDIT: Above magic forces passtrough to ct_oal.dll always so will crash if not present and DisableNativeAL=true (yes, true, 1 will NOT work) will not work too so better magic is:
Alchemy dsound.dll 2.4.2.10: 0x183B0 -> 0x40 0xC3
Then with DisableNativeAL=true will work as software, and without it will passtrough to ct_oal.dll


New to the party here, but just wanted to double check...are you guys using OpenAL Soft? Right now I have the modded ct_oal.dll, OpenAL32.dll and wrap_oal.dll (installed from oalinst.exe version 2.1.0.0) in my sys dirs and can't get EAX to pop up ( using the modded dsound.dll games usually just crash) :/

Also, did "0x183B0 -> 0x40 0xC3" mean to insert 0x40 0xC3 or overwrite it at location 00 of offset 0x183B0?

Soz for all the questions and thanks for this awesome thread!
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2016-8-22 @ 09:38

It wont work with OpenAL Soft - only with HOAL. About second question - overwrite.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby RealSpArTeN » 2016-8-22 @ 17:00

Nucleoprotein wrote:It wont work with OpenAL Soft - only with HOAL. About second question - overwrite.


Awesome! Got everything where it needs to be but...whenever I put the 64bit version of ct_oal.dll in system32, something seems to be changing the hex values to the 32bit version values???

Before: https://ibin.co/2sScDq5AxpFA.png

After: https://ibin.co/2sScVK6TtCjo.png

EDIT: After testing all is working except FEAR, which doesnt output surround sound (fix is to use OpenAL Soft, but would break EAX, so...) thanks for all the help! :happy:
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby mirh » 2016-8-24 @ 11:36

For whatever oddity changes your files, log stuff with process monitor.
For the remainder, remember FEAR requires ALchemy.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby RealSpArTeN » 2016-8-24 @ 19:33

Looks like DLLHOST is editing the file the second I rename/paste it in.

And I've setup FEAR to use the modified ALchemy dsound, but whenever I go ingame, EAX is greyed out and surround is a no go.

Thanks for the swift replies btw!

EDIT: also tried making ct_oal read-only (which is what i used in the log attached)
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Logfile.txt
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby mirh » 2016-8-24 @ 20:02

Do other games work?
Or Rightmark Audio Analyzer for example.

Dllhost isn't expected to touch your files then. Are you doing the whole thing with admin privilege?
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby RealSpArTeN » 2016-8-24 @ 20:26

Yes and yes. :confused:
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lagonauta » 2016-8-25 @ 10:40

uzernaem wrote:Hello everyone! I've enabled EAX in Doom 3 with Alchemy and there's one thing that bothers me - there are no gradual transitions between rooms. The sound changes instantly to a different reverb preset when you go from one room to another and it kinda breaks the immersion. Was it like this on the original Creative hardware?

I've tried Host OpenAL solution too but couldn't hear any difference in quality with it compared to "Creative Software 3D Library". Yes, dsoundlog.txt says "Using Native OpenAL Renderer" so it works.


Don't worry, this is how it is supposed to be. Doom 3 EAX implementation is really bad (probably because they really hated being forced to implement it). It is more like EAX2 with high quality reverb and occlusion. I have a X-Fi Titanium and noticed the same thing.
Prey and Quake 4 have better implementations, specially Prey.
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