Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Emulation of old PCs, PC hardware, or PC peripherals.

Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby dongerdog » 2018-3-02 @ 16:56

MST wrote:"Failed to initialize Creative ALchemy, falling back to dsound.dll" means you do not have valid license. Does it work fine with any other game or not?
Maybe following post will help with your RX: http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=741967&p=613093&viewfull=1#post613093

lowenz wrote:Splinter Cell series AND R6 series use "DARE Audio" tecnology, maybe the problem with ALchemy is related to that technology and not to Dsound (an interface for the device) EAX handling.
Try another Splinter Cell, can you?

Sorry for the slow response, work n stuff. As for EAX capable games...

SC: Pandora Tomorrow - Can not check the EAX box in audio settings. Setting "EAX" to True and "EAX_Capable" to True in SplinterCell2User.ini have no effect, still greyed out box in audio settings and no difference in-game as far as I've heard. Same goes for the first game.

Hitman: Blood Money - Extremely subtle, just a small touch of reverb/echo for the guns (it is not there when turning off EAX) but not nearly as drastic as I've seen EAX tests on YouTube demonstrating the effect, I assume they're using MB3/SB Z and it's emulated/software FX thus giving it a more pronounced effect compared to Rx hardware EAX?

F.E.A.R. - Can tick "use HW mixing" and "EAX 2.0" in settings, but not EAX HD (EAX 3). Enabling HW mixing and EAX 2.0 results in "Failed to initialize sound driver "SndDrv.dll". Execution may terminate...". and no sound in-game.

Star Wars: Jedi Knight II - Works. Yay.

That thread seemed promising, but it did nothing for my case as some of the above games acted the same as before. Tried reinstalling the drivers multiple times and following exactly as stated without success. Tried uninstalling old Realtek drivers (that obviously wasn't enabled) as I thought they might be conflicting with some games - nope. Obviously what I hunger for is to get Chaos Theory EAX fully working, the other Splinter Cells would be sweet too, but good knowing that my card at least does something for some games.

I'm confused about the license thing though (Forgive my ignorance, pretty green at the whole subject atm. :dead: ). Bought the Rx new from a retailer days ago, tried both the official drivers and Daniel_K's drivers and it gives the same message in dsoundlog.txt with both, do I need a correct Audigy Rx version/license of ALchemy? There's no official ALchemy version available for download for the Rx on the Creative site and I assume you're good to go as long as you use the latest version.

Also, could the issue maybe be with Windows 10 and the rearrangements of folders/dll files and such? I think I read something about that...

So much for fully enjoying old games, heh.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby usernamed » 2018-3-04 @ 16:40

If it's not too much hassle, i suggest doing XP dualboot. No Alchemy hassle and direct access to your card thanks to intact HAL layer. All the effects at full level present, too (which often is not the case with Alchemy on post-Vista systems).
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby jonpol » 2018-3-04 @ 18:50

Regarding IndirectSound vs. ALchemy: There is no reason to use IndirectSound if you have an actual SoundBlaster and ALchemy is working.

Regarding how to know whether EAX is working or not:
  • If you want to hear what EAX sounds like I recommend RightMark 3D Sound. It will let you choose different software/hardware and EAX configurations, and change different properties to hear the difference. This would be a good way to hear what your sound card is actually doing so that you have a better idea of what to listen for in games.
  • Another program with even more options is included in the EAX 2.0 SDK. It lets you change every possible parameter in EAX 2.0 and experiment to hear the difference. Unfortunately, the SDK is hard to find nowadays, but if you get it the program is located in Samples\DSound\bin\EAXPanel.exe.
  • If you want to know whether a specific game uses EAX or not you can use IndirectSound to help figure this out (it won't help you know what to listen for, but it can at least let you know what the game is doing). Run a game using IndirectSound with EAX emulation enabled in the INI file and then look at the generated log file. Messages will be output when a game does something related to EAX. I haven't experimented with older cards, but my X-Fi has different modes for each of the different EAX versions, and a mode is determined by what version of EAX has a value set first (that's a slight simplification, but close enough). So, if a game sets any EAX value it means that EAX will be enabled, and EAX will use default settings and behavior from that first set value's version. (Unfortunately, no game will try to set a value higher than 2.0 using IndirectSound and so you won't be able to use this method to test for sure whether a game supports a higher level; if a game queries for support for a higher level, however, there's a reasonably good chance that it would use that higher level if it could.)
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby usernamed » 2018-3-10 @ 15:16

jonpol wrote:Regarding IndirectSound vs. ALchemy: There is no reason to use IndirectSound if you have an actual SoundBlaster and ALchemy is working.

Are you sure? AFAIK EAX is nothing more than audio extension library, it just provides different effects not positional audio. For example in Thief 3 i still have positional audio if EAX is disabled or not using Creative (Alchemy) card, you just don't get different effects regarding the environment you are in.

IndirectAudio, AFAIK, enables positional audio for old games.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby jonpol » 2018-3-11 @ 05:31

usernamed wrote:
jonpol wrote:Regarding IndirectSound vs. ALchemy: There is no reason to use IndirectSound if you have an actual SoundBlaster and ALchemy is working.

Are you sure? AFAIK EAX is nothing more than audio extension library, it just provides different effects not positional audio. For example in Thief 3 i still have positional audio if EAX is disabled or not using Creative (Alchemy) card, you just don't get different effects regarding the environment you are in.

IndirectAudio, AFAIK, enables positional audio for old games.


You are correct that EAX is separate from positional audio, but the way that IndirectSound restores positional audio is the same thing that ALchemy does and the end result is the same (or, said another way, a working ALchemy and Sound Blaster installation will restore positional audio just like IndirectSound does, but additionally make EAX available). IndirectSound doesn't add any positional audio that old games don't already have; it just tricks them into using their existing positional audio code by pretending that hardware acceleration is available. If ALchemy is working it does the same thing, and real hardware acceleration actually is available (using the Sound Blaster).

I guess when I said that there was "no reason" to use IndirectSound instead of a Sound Blaster + ALchemy that may not have technically been accurate because there are a few situations I can think of where IndirectSound might be preferable. These situations are exceptional, though. For most people who have a Sound Blaster and ALchemy and are happy with them there isn't any reason to use IndirectSound instead (and those were the situations being discussed earlier in this thread).
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby lowenz » 2018-3-11 @ 10:19

jonpol wrote:
usernamed wrote:
jonpol wrote:I guess when I said that there was "no reason" to use IndirectSound instead of a Sound Blaster + ALchemy

Maybe 1 reason exists: ct_oal.dll no more updated for old driver packages/old sound cards.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby brad86 » 2018-4-08 @ 16:00

EAX keeps cutting out randomly on Splinter Cell.

It is working fine in Chaos Theory, KOTOR, and Halo CE.

Settings.

Buffers: 5
Duration: 25
Maximum Voice Count: 125
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2018-4-18 @ 18:05

There is hidden ini option to disable HW 3D engine when is detected as supported:
Code: Select all
DisableNativeAL=true
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby jeckhack » 2018-7-28 @ 21:47

Hi! First, thank you very much, MST, for the explanation about compiling. Sorry for delay : ) FYI i haven't been able to activate mb5 no matter what, it really requires modded realtek software, so screw that.
--
I have a question for X-fi MB3 users, but it's maybe a bit offtopic. Anyway:
Lately I've been driven mad by strange stutters in every game. Small hiccup happens when loading every new sound ingame, be that music track or weapon sound etc. First I thought that my hdd is the cause, but later I found that using X-Fi MB3 is what causing the stutters. Strange, i didn't notice this in the past, this started to happen only about month or two ago. Turning off virtual surround doesn't do much, I think it't Creative driver itself.
I think that latest Win 10 updates to sound subsystem did that, but I'm not sure.

So, maybe someone have the same happening or have some clues how to fix this? Because it doesnt look like MB3 will be ever updated in the future. Is it becoming incompatible with new WDDM or whatever?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Emulating EAX on any onboard sound hardware?

Postby Nucleoprotein » 2018-8-19 @ 15:35

dongerdog wrote:Sorry for the slow response, work n stuff. As for EAX capable games...

SC: Pandora Tomorrow - Can not check the EAX box in audio settings. Setting "EAX" to True and "EAX_Capable" to True in SplinterCell2User.ini have no effect, still greyed out box in audio settings and no difference in-game as far as I've heard. Same goes for the first game.

Hitman: Blood Money - Extremely subtle, just a small touch of reverb/echo for the guns (it is not there when turning off EAX) but not nearly as drastic as I've seen EAX tests on YouTube demonstrating the effect, I assume they're using MB3/SB Z and it's emulated/software FX thus giving it a more pronounced effect compared to Rx hardware EAX?

F.E.A.R. - Can tick "use HW mixing" and "EAX 2.0" in settings, but not EAX HD (EAX 3). Enabling HW mixing and EAX 2.0 results in "Failed to initialize sound driver "SndDrv.dll". Execution may terminate...". and no sound in-game.

Star Wars: Jedi Knight II - Works. Yay.

That thread seemed promising, but it did nothing for my case as some of the above games acted the same as before. Tried reinstalling the drivers multiple times and following exactly as stated without success. Tried uninstalling old Realtek drivers (that obviously wasn't enabled) as I thought they might be conflicting with some games - nope. Obviously what I hunger for is to get Chaos Theory EAX fully working, the other Splinter Cells would be sweet too, but good knowing that my card at least does something for some games.

I'm confused about the license thing though (Forgive my ignorance, pretty green at the whole subject atm. :dead: ). Bought the Rx new from a retailer days ago, tried both the official drivers and Daniel_K's drivers and it gives the same message in dsoundlog.txt with both, do I need a correct Audigy Rx version/license of ALchemy? There's no official ALchemy version available for download for the Rx on the Creative site and I assume you're good to go as long as you use the latest version.

Also, could the issue maybe be with Windows 10 and the rearrangements of folders/dll files and such? I think I read something about that...

So much for fully enjoying old games, heh.


Install Alchemy and use GenKGA, i think installer changes something in registry too for latest Windows 10 (i think Microsoft hardened Windows 10 and dsound dll is not loaded from app directory, like graphics drivers - they now have full, absolute path so you can't inject code using driver DLL name).

PS: Here: https://pastebin.com/BHnvBYWD - i think i fixed incorrect MAC hashing, it hashes now only Ethernet adapters (MIB_IF_TYPE_ETHERNET)
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