3dfx/Glide

Emulation of old PCs, PC hardware, or PC peripherals.

3dfx/Glide

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-6-30 @ 22:05

Looking for expertise on 3dfx/Glide emulation.

I've heard grand success stories with little-to-no-detail and numerous complete failures as well.

From the experimenting I've done, I've come to the conclusion that 3dfx/Glide emulation _can_ be done.

The keys seem to be carefully tracking what you're doing (what version of what file is going where and what would you need to do restore everything back the way it was) and starting from the bottom-of-the-barrel and working your way up.

Don't start with "Unreal Tournament" and expect a Glide wrapper to give you a GeForce4-level display.

Instead, start with the very earliest 3dfx demos and see if they work. The more primitive they are, the better. Once you are able to run numerous demos consistently, that's the time to start looking at more advanced emulation.

So far, my tests have not been consistent. One wrapper was half-broken on the old 3dfx racing demo (Racing demo with screen split in half. One side is software rendered, the other side is 3dfx enhanced). The software side was fine, the 3dfx side was blank.
But the same wrapper worked fine on the Egyptian room lighting demo (with the floating ankh).

A different wrapper ran the racing demo fine (both sides displayed), but turned the Egyptian room into nothing but shades of blue.

I managed to start "Driver" (the game) up and it ran without crashing, but was unplayable due to horribly distorted graphics.

Hopefully, a FAQ will grow out of this a make 3dfx emulation much easier.
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

GliDOS

Postby Snover » 2002-7-01 @ 00:34

Was one of these wrappers GliDOS, or is GliDOS not an actual 3Dfx wrapper at all but just something to route Glide in DOS games to Windows Glide drivers?
Snover
l33t++
 
Posts: 5213
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 04:47

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-01 @ 01:25

Tested GliDOS, but I wasn't referring to it in my text.

From Paul Gardiner:
Glidos is not really a Glide Wrapper. All it does is pipe the Glide commands from DOS to Windows. The Glide emulation is actually done by OpenGlide which can be found inside the Glidos folder in the form of Glide2x.dll It may be possible to use Glidos with a different Glide Wrapper (Just drop the alternative version of Glide2x.dll in the Glidos folder.
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

OpenGLide

Postby Snover » 2002-7-01 @ 04:01

So, did you try OpenGLide? (You can get it from here.)
Snover
l33t++
 
Posts: 5213
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 04:47

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-03 @ 04:12

I believe so, but that was when I was plugging in files fast and furious in an attempt to get it working quickly. I've come to find that this is much like trying to roast a turkey quickly by dousing it in gasoline and setting it on fire.

When I have any kind of real results, I'll post them.
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-04 @ 05:25

Bleah...

Just finished digging through a lot of Glide DLL's, control panels,etc...
trying to come up with Glide wrapper to replace my age-old Voodoo card.

Very, very messy. I can't really make sense of the results either.

I have a dozen pages or so, just need to figure what to do with them.

Hrmm.
Last edited by Nicht Sehr Gut on 2002-7-04 @ 06:18, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-04 @ 05:30

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:A different wrapper ran the racing demo fine (both sides displayed), but turned the Egyptian room into nothing but shades of blue.


Actually, I've come to find out that the "Blue" Egyptian Room demo was running correctly. It tests colored lighting on the texture mapping. So far the "Unified Wrapper" has been the only one that I've seen run this properly.
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

Postby Snover » 2002-7-04 @ 18:57

Unified Wrapper was also the one that correctly displayed the racing demo?
Snover
l33t++
 
Posts: 5213
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 04:47

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-06 @ 18:40

Administrator wrote:Unified Wrapper was also the one that correctly displayed the racing demo?


Nope....
Results
----------
Unified Wrapper v1.20

glide2x.dll Version 2.60.00.120
"Other version" 2.60.00.120

glide2x.ovl Thursday, April 29, 1999

Tomb Raider Gold
Standard 3dfx executable - Crashes
3dfx VoodooRush executable generates the following error:
Fatal error, unable to locate glide DLL
=============================================

Contents of D:\Desktop\3dfxdemo-atsflip\flip\atsflip\
At 7/3/02 1:52:50 PM 32 Files 6.07Mb
ANUBIS.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
ATAT.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
atsflip.exe Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
dANUBIS.BAT Direct3D
dATAT.BAT Direct3D
dDRAGON.BAT Direct3D
dLUDWIG.BAT Direct3D
dMARTINI.BAT Direct3D
DRAGON.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
dSKELETN.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
dVW.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
LUDWIG.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
MARTINI.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
SKELETON.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"
VW.BAT Generic error window (no text), then ATB error "Couldn't detect the SST-1"

D:\Desktop\3dfxdemo-atsflip\flip\hpflip
HIND.BAT Init display, grSstOpen: Failed to map any board
SKELL.BAT Init display, grSstOpen: Failed to map any board

D:\Desktop\3dfxdemo-demoroom\demoroom
demoroom.exe "The DEMOROOM.EXE... SHOCK!!...works properly. Maps textures and all lighting
effects work properly.

D:\Desktop\3dfxdemo-race\racing
RACE.EXE "The RACE.EXE ... SHOCK!! (BAD)...doesn't work at all. Blank screen, then quits.

D:\Desktop\3dfxdemo-valleyofra\ValleyOfRa\fight
fight.exe "The FIGHT.EXE... SHOCK!! (BAD)...doesn't work at all. Blank screen, then quits.

D:\Desktop\3dfxdemo-wiz
wiz.exe "The wiz.EXE looks almost perfect. Texture maps all look good (well, couple of
glitches), and lighting is great (lava room, green dragon room, and the beholder)
Oddly, releasing a "bat" (the B key) will kill the program instantly (!?).

DRIVER (the Game)
Doesn't detect anything like Voodoo (native video only).

Have several pages of this stuff, if you're just looking to fill empty space
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

GTA

Postby Snover » 2002-7-07 @ 00:09

Have you tried the original Grand Theft Auto's Glide version? (The demo is probably still available somewhere, but I think freeloader has it for free.)
Snover
l33t++
 
Posts: 5213
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 04:47

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-08 @ 03:49

I've got in storage (also known as "the stack"). I'll get around to finding and testing it, but real-world issues are kind of pressing right now.
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

Postby Stiletto » 2002-7-10 @ 17:00

Found a neat FAQ last night:
Moody's Voodoo 2 FAQ - final version here (http://3dfx.infomaniak.ch/HTML_Archive/moodyv2.htm)

May be of interest for the future.

Enjoy,
Stiletto
"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto
User avatar
Stiletto
l33t
 
Posts: 4365
Joined: 2002-7-01 @ 21:57

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-10 @ 17:45

Hey Stiletto, one thing I'd like to see is NVidia support (even if it's _completely_ unofficial) for 3dfx Glide. At least for the windows Glide2. I'd prefer that DOS titles be covered as well, but I already know I dreaming with Glide2.

They wouldn't even have to write it themselves, just release the needed data as "open source with no support", and the Glide wrapper people would jump on it.

My testing generated a bizarre set of results, but it was mostly discouraging. Still, I loved how the Unified wrapper ran 3dfx' old "Egyptian Room Lighting Demo" perfectly, and the "Wizard of Tower demo" almost perfectly.
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

Postby Snover » 2002-7-10 @ 18:02

Now, you see, mate, this shouldn't ever be a problem since nVidia BOUGHT OUT 3Dfx... I don't know why they haven't either
  1. released glide stuffs to open-source
  2. released glide-compatible drivers for their video cards

It's damn annoying, in my opinion. But, c'est la vie, I guess...:/
Snover
l33t++
 
Posts: 5213
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 04:47

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-10 @ 18:34

There were some good reasons for this back when they first bought them.

1)They wanted 3dfx gone. Any attempt at trying to preserve Glide back then meant you have huge numbers of irate 3dfx fans demanding driver support for their 3dfx cards. And since most of these people seemed to hate NVidia in the first place, this also meant there would be no satisfying them. Obviously, NVidia wanted no part of that. They just wanted 3dfx gone.

2)The lawsuit claiming NVidia stole technology from 3dfx was never actually settled. Nvidia just bought 3dfx. So you had rabid 3dfx fans presuming it was all true, and furthermore, that each and every new thing that came from NVidia was presumed to have come from the "stolen technology". Presenting a fully-functional "Glide-wrapper" would, in the eyes of some , have been "proof positive" of theft.

But time has gone by, and even some of the more outraged 3dfx fans have moved on to other cards because they simply can't get the features they want with their old cards (not to mention, no XP drivers <that aren't homemade>).

That's why I think a nice, quiet data release is in order. That way, we get what we want and NVidia doesn't gain any "support issues".
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

Postby Snover » 2002-7-10 @ 19:57

Interesting.
Anyone here know anyone at nVidia? ;)
Snover
l33t++
 
Posts: 5213
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 04:47

Postby Stiletto » 2002-7-10 @ 20:13

I don't understand. Everything needed to make a Glide wrapper was released by 3dfx already. Heck, everything needed to emulate a Voodoo or Voodoo 2 chip has been leaked, too. Why is this needed?

The only reason I can think of is that the Glide SDK (wherever you find it online) STILL has the "anti-reverse-engineering" clause that was put into the user's license when the first Glide wrapper was created.

Only other reason I can think of is to counteract this misleading information: http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=IO_20011120_4349

Stiletto
"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto
User avatar
Stiletto
l33t
 
Posts: 4365
Joined: 2002-7-01 @ 21:57

Postby Snover » 2002-7-11 @ 20:49

Since 3Dfx has been swallowed, do you think that clause still has any bearing? I mean, nVidia is pretty developer-friendly, and reverse-engineering Glide would probably only go to boost their profits (people with old Voodoo cards for playing Glide games upgrading to a GeForce card).
Snover
l33t++
 
Posts: 5213
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 04:47

Postby Stiletto » 2002-7-11 @ 21:59

I'm kinda feeling out nVidia to ask them this question, my questions about the NV-1 and questions regarding Dracman's GeForce3 Glide experimentations (here: http://www.smokeypoint.com/flash.htm)

I'll let you know if I make any moves. :)
"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto
User avatar
Stiletto
l33t
 
Posts: 4365
Joined: 2002-7-01 @ 21:57

Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-7-12 @ 05:30

BTW, does anyone know _anybody_ besides Dracman to get this to work without a wrapper? I know someone else was trying MechWarrior with the same parameters and it failed completely.
User avatar
Nicht Sehr Gut
l33t
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: 2002-6-30 @ 17:32

Next

Return to PC Emulation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest