VOGONS


First post, by NamelessPlayer

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Legacy PC specs:

AMD K6-2 366 MHz
128 MB PC-100 SDRAM
SiS 530 w/STB 12 MB Voodoo 2(formerly ATI Xpert 98)
SB Live! Value
Windows 98 SE/Windows 2000 Pro/Mandrake Linux 9.0

Somehow, my framerates seem lower than I remember them-I don't think I've ever seen MW2: Mercs hitch so much or Redline run so poorly. Maybe it's because V2s don't do D3D nearly as well as OGL or Glide...then again, I also only had a Win9x OS installed at the time. I could also be spoiled by newer games & hardware...

My dad removed the Xpert 98 because he said it was causing problems. I didn't seem to have any problems-in fact, 2D still continues to suck with the SiS 530 anyway. My 3 PCI slots are full, however, so I guess I better find me an SB16 or AWE64 to fill one of my ISA slots(but is it worth losing EAX?).

So tell me-is one card really slower than the other, or should I go find a cheap CPU upgrade somewhere to boost those framerates a bit? This really concerns me if I'm trying to have a LAN going & one of us is at a disadvantage.

Reply 1 of 6, by Reckless

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If all you've done is replace the ATI with the SIS card then you would not have changed the performane of the Voodoo 2 card. This 'could' imply that you're actually running D3D on the primary video card not - not on the Voodoo2. What you need for situations like this is a util called 3D Control Centre - available here to force selection of the Voodoo as the card that will process D3D.

There are also special drivers around for Voodoo cards, the most obvious was the MiniGL drivers supporting games like Quake on the Voodoo [2] card. Additionally there was a driver set called WickedGL which I assume was much the same [but better] although I had moved on since then.

The link for the 3D Control Center seems to contain a ton of interesting stuff - http://www.falconfly.de/tools.htm
There are still lots of links still active, like:
http://www.3dgw.com/faq/moodys_voodoo2_faq.htm

Reply 2 of 6, by NamelessPlayer

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Reckless wrote:
If all you've done is replace the ATI with the SIS card then you would not have changed the performane of the Voodoo 2 card. Thi […]
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If all you've done is replace the ATI with the SIS card then you would not have changed the performane of the Voodoo 2 card. This 'could' imply that you're actually running D3D on the primary video card not - not on the Voodoo2. What you need for situations like this is a util called 3D Control Centre - available here to force selection of the Voodoo as the card that will process D3D.

There are also special drivers around for Voodoo cards, the most obvious was the MiniGL drivers supporting games like Quake on the Voodoo [2] card. Additionally there was a driver set called WickedGL which I assume was much the same [but better] although I had moved on since then.

The link for the 3D Control Center seems to contain a ton of interesting stuff - http://www.falconfly.de/tools.htm
There are still lots of links still active, like:
http://www.3dgw.com/faq/moodys_voodoo2_faq.htm

I should note that I haven't used the Xpert 98 in YEARS. It was only until recently that I had to rely on the SiS 530(it's integrated, BTW)for everything. I also know that it's the V2 that's processing D3D since I have to plug my monitor into it(vendor forgot the passthrough!)in order to get a signal.

I'm using the FastVoodoo2 4.6 drivers I acquired from 3dfxzone.it. They seem to work alright, but D3D support only exists under Win98SE.

What I'm wondering is if the V2 is LESS powerful than an Xpert 98 or if I should do a little tweaking...or if I should just go on with a faster Socket 7 CPU as well as slapping a cooler onto my V2 to OC(it's amazing how the 1st 3D accelerators didn't need cooling at all while modern graphics cards sometimes require dual-slot coolers just to prevent from overheating...).

Reply 3 of 6, by Reckless

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NamelessPlayer wrote:

What I'm wondering is if the V2 is LESS powerful than an Xpert 98 or if ...

Both are crap when compared to anything remotely modern so the argument/critisim over cooling is irrelevant. A Google search may bring back some game benchmarks relevant for the period.

Reply 4 of 6, by NamelessPlayer

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Reckless wrote:

Both are crap when compared to anything remotely modern so the argument/critisim over cooling is irrelevant. A Google search may bring back some game benchmarks relevant for the period.

I'm pretty sure my memory's not failing me when games like MW2: Mercs & the Terracide demo ran very smooth as well as Redline long ago with the Xpert 98...I wonder why. Maybe I can live without it, but is it worth trying to swap mobos with my friend who also has the AWE64 Gold PCI? He happens to have an AGP slot in his, but he might also have more PCI slots(I only have 3 full ones, 2 without enough room for my V2 due to the HSF position)so that I can utilize SLI to get a massive performance jump.

What could possibly give me good FPS on a PC that old with games up to 1999? I DEFINITELY know MW2: Mercs shouldn't hitch so much, let alone take so long to switch from shell to sim & back.

Reply 5 of 6, by amano

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I would try the 3D Control Centre trick from above. Just that your monitor is plugged into the voodoo doesn't mean that the voodoo is rendering the game. It could be the SiS as well. YOu would see game graphics rendered by the SIS the same way as 2D graphics (which are always drawn by the SIS).

Reply 6 of 6, by NamelessPlayer

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Great...my Voodoo 2 disappeared AGAIN, and Driver Cleaner hasn't solved the problem yet. I'll work into it a little more...

EDIT: Solved the problem. Letting the 3D Control Center execute on startup seems to be the problem. Now we just need to get those old DOS games(in this case, Carmageddon & Descent II)to work in native Glide(only seem to work with DOSBox so far)...

It doesn't seem to be increasing performance from what I can tell.

EDIT 2: I notice that if I bring up the objectives list in MW2: Mercs, I seem to get a bit of a performance increase. I still get slowdown if I blow something up, though. What baffles me is that just a few HUD elements can take away that bit of FPS.

I only wish the old school PCs weren't bought with federal tax money so I can liberate them off of the school for cheap...just your standard-fare IBM PC with a Pentium II, unknown amount of RAM, 3 PCI slots, 2 ISA slots & most likely enough room for SLI! Maybe if I can go hunt around, I can acquire a bunch of old-unused PCs for a bit of legacy LAN fun!

EDIT 3: I managed to get just-playable performance in MW3 by adding a no-CD crack, but it may just be a mere illusion. Since Redline likes to crash on that PC now, I dumped it in favor of MW3: Pirate's Moon(which I had to copy from the family PC because the stupid installer couldn't read my legit MW3 disc on my legacy PC). Both play on LAN alright, but there's a strange amount of lag for a LAN game on occasion. I once saw the legacy PC's 'Mech floating in the view of the family PC's!

I'm also a bit closer to cracking why Descent II & Carma don't work under Glide. I think I had the GliDOS glide2x.ovl file in the DII folder, so I just took care of that & tried it again...only to see it just sitting there after the memory messages. Placing either my FastVoodoo or my 3dfx reference glide2x.ovl file in the folder didn't help either, as it would just quit for some strange reason.

The unofficial Descent Glide patch works great-it's just annoying to play without a mouse. Just another reason to grab a SpaceOrb.