Originally posted by Snover Don't use QEMM. Don't.

What is the deal with you and QEMM? You know that on some hardware configurations QEMM or MAX8 are the only solutions available.

Having said that, I would only give it access at the "Real mode" level.

Originally posted by onemangang I used the memory settings listed earlier on this page. I used auto settings. Niether version of SS1 will run.

I think there is some confusion on this issue. Despite what was said earlier (the Win98 settings), as far as we know, there's no way to run this within Windows with sound.

Hrmm. We need this fully clarified once and for all...

I hate QEMM. I loathe QEMM. I've used it in the past and it caused ENDLESS amounts of trouble. Of course, the box had some issues (like, needing a huge-ass hole cut in the side of it for the summer when it got hot and froze up (ah the irony of using an antonym due to heat) -- this was a 486-33 FFS!!) but I still think I remember using it on another box (some Xeon Pentium piece of crap desktop model) and it was baaaad. There are ALWAYS ways to work around memory problems. 2DOSWIN is always a good choice..😉

This was, of course, and old version on 3 floppies, so maybe it's improved. Maybe. Unlikely, but perhaps.

Originally posted by Snover I hate QEMM. I loathe QEMM. I've used it in the past and it caused ENDLESS amounts of trouble.

Well, calm down would ya? Yeesh. I'm no fan of Pepto-Bismol, but I don't attach an emotional response to it (despite it's amazing power to make me puke).

I'm presently running it on a 486DX-66 Gateway without incident.
I've set up a multi-config menu, so it can handle plain DOS, QEMM, DOS with EMM386, and DOS with EMM386 +EMS. For some titles this is the only thing on which I can run some titles.

Without it, I can't get base memory beyond something like 560K with mouse and CD-ROM drivers. With it, I get about 602K, plus I get a quick, 2 second reboot (normally this thing has some long delay for reboots, usually about 14 seconds).

I like QEMM. Has better error reporting and utilities. Sure some of the freeware utilities has surpassed it over time but there are still many good ones in there and has Nicht said. Multiple Configs. This ain't Windows,. ya' know. We have more flexibility in DOS. 😉 ROFLMAO! 😁

Have you tried 2DOSWIN? It should give you plennnty of memory. Just do a little editing to the stuff -- add DEVICEHIGH=C:\...\OAKCDROM.SYS, change the device driver for your sound card, and you're done. EMM386 loads into unusued monochrome video memory, and there are also a few more memory locations I've detailed somewhere or another on the forum that you can add.

Actually, it wasn't really hard to get SS1 running under XP. But it's badly written and attempts to read memory outside of allocated areas causing crashes after few minutes of playing. I solved it by allocating additional 4kb of memory for each block and so far it works, at least here. I used:
- VDMSound (not required, but sounds better)
- NoLFB for 640x480 resolution
- Sapucdex (not sure if needed, I have it installed by default in autoexec.nt)
...and System Shock CD version.
Unpack the new executable into c:\sshock and replace the path in cdshock.bat.
This is alpha patch, so don't complain if it won't work for you 😉

-Mok

Originally posted by Mok Actually, it wasn't really hard to get SS1 running under XP.

Oh yes it was...*heh* How did you manage to pull this off? I figured the VCPI memory thing made it an absolute dead end. You reverse-engineer in your spare-time perhaps?

...so far it works, at least here.

And here as well. I was surprised as there had been many false positives before...people weren't testing beyond the introduction animation. Haven't done "in-depth" testing but I tried all the basics of movement...bashed a few bots...listened to some email. All worked properly. I'd like a faster mouse, but that's really nit-picking. It's amazing that it works at all.

- VDMSound (not required, but sounds better)

Definitely true. SB16 is pushing it on the intro (EDIT: Update, not a CD-access issue), but in-game sounds fine.

NoLFB for 640x480 resolution

True for GF3 users and many others. AIUI, some ATI users may not need it.

Sapucdex (not sure if needed..

It's not. Was surprised to find that I didn't even need to enable low-level CD-ROM access.

...and System Shock CD version.

*cuddles and caresses CD* ....my precioussss

This is alpha patch, so don't complain if it won't work for you

No complaints here. I'm almost think I'm just day-dreaming all this...but it works.

Will copy this (the file and data) over to my Problem Child entry in Magrathea/Deep Thought. If you want it pulled down let me know.

It works, but there is little problem with it: Upon startup it gives two CLOSE or IGNORE errors about COM1 and COM2 port. I have serial ports disabled in bios.

I would also like to know how did you detect the problem and especially what steps you took to fix it.

Forgot to mention that it worked without Sapucdex or NoLFB. ATI card here. Mouse is slow in VESA, but there are several dos tools to fix that.

Originally posted by Fisu It works, but there is little problem with it: Upon startup it gives two CLOSE or IGNORE errors about COM1 and COM2 port. I have serial ports disabled in bios.

Is this with your original "System Shock"? or with Mok's modified executable?

Naturally with the modified .exe. It is only little annoyance when starting the game.

IMHO, this is normal. The game attempts to access both com ports on its own (no idea why, but the code is definitely there...), so if you disabled them, you'll get that dialog box. Not only in this game but in anything that tries to access com ports directly from dos.

As for fixing the game... I removed the initial memory problem about 1 year ago when the game didn't start in Win 98 for me. I don't remember what exactly was wrong, but I think it was a bug and not a specific memory that the game required... I traced the code and the game checked wrong return parameter or something similar. I only remember that it was easy to fix 😜
Yesterday I tried that version and it allowed me to enter the game but crashed every few minutes. The rest was really boring tracing, looking for the problem. After checking hundreds of exceptions (most of them perfectly legal, when the kernel encountered cli/sti or other special instructions) I got several routines that tried to access illegal memory ranges. Then I modified the memory allocating routine to always add 4096 to the requested size, also extended the initial data section by few hundred kilobytes. Now the code can always read/write in this additional area without triggering exceptions. It seems it was enough, can't say if the game will work from the start till the end, but after playing for an hour it didn't crash, I walked around, killed some mutants, entered cyberspace etc. 😀

-Mok

Originally posted by Mok IMHO, this is normal. The game attempts to access both com ports on its own (no idea why, but the code is definitely there...)

Turned off my serial ports and got the same response. Odd (since they don't seem to have a purpose), but like you said it's part of the game.

As for fixing the game... I removed the initial memory problem about 1 year ago when the game didn't start in Win 98 for me. I don't remember what exactly was wrong, but I think it was a bug and not a specific memory that the game required...

What throws me is that it used VCPI memory and that was supposedly a dead-end for running within Windows without some form of (real) DOS emulation. Only thing I can guess is that the modifications you made were related to the only parts of VCPI that were incompatible (if you know what I mean).

Having said that...any interest in tackling other VCPI titles? All of them are presently incompatible with all forms of NT due to VCPI.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

What throws me is that it used VCPI memory and that was supposedly a dead-end for running within Windows without some form of (real) DOS emulation. Only thing I can guess is that the modifications you made were related to the only parts of VCPI that were incompatible (if you know what I mean).

No, it's not using VCPI memory, at least within Windows. Dos extender is managing memory and within Windows it uses DPMI. If the game uses only VCPI, it won't start at all.

Having said that...any interest in tackling other VCPI titles? All of them are presently incompatible with all forms of NT due to VCPI.

I'm not sure 😜 Is there a list of problematic titles available anywhere?

-Mok

Originally posted by Mok No, it's not using VCPI memory, at least within Windows.

Well something's not right here. Now I can't find the data that stated "System Shock" used VCPI. All I can find now is Vlad's reference to it. So if you need to... poke him with a sharp stick, or throw a spoon at him...or something.

This might explain why a precious few were able to get the floppy version to work (although prior to this, I hadn't heard of anyone able to beyond the intro and main menu for the CD version).

Hrmm. Now that Mok has fixed the broken game. It works fine with the present version of VDMSound. This was one of the titles that HomerJ claimed "proved" that VDMSound didn't "do anything". That's another title fixed...all I need to do is lift a finger to email him... *struggles to lift finger*

Sorry, too much effort.

😜 Is there a list of problematic titles available anywhere?

*Heh* That's a Pandora's box. Numerous titles have been DOA on NT.

VCPI Titles
Dungeon Master II
Wing Commander: Armada
Strike Commander (Origin)
Pacific Strike
Privateer
Wings of Glory

Of course, if VCPI wasn't the issue, then maybe they really aren't fixable.

Mok, I must say, you are in-cred-i-ble.

Had a problem with my mouse.
peter's excellent utility fixed it.
W00t to peter. W00t to Mok. W00t.

Vlad, mouseset is officially phased out. 😁

Bah. Now the DOS extender craps out on me. Are you sure you uploaded the correct EXE? 😉

1CauseWay DOS Extender v3.25 Copyright 1992-96 Michael Devore.
2All rights reserved.
3
4Exception: 05, Error code: 0000
5
6EAX=039D9980 EBX=0000001F ECX=00000008 EDX=0000007C ESI=039BDE10 
7EDI=039D98F8 EBP=039D9800 ESP=00000000 EIP=00000008 EFL=00013282 
8
9CS=0277-FC8E0000 DS=0287-FC8E0000 ES=024F-xxxxxxxx 
10FS=0000-xxxxxxxx GS=028F-xxxxxxxx SS=0287-FC8E0000 
11
12CR0=00000000 CR2=00000000 CR3=00000000 TR=0000
13
14Info flags=00008018 
15
16Program Linear Load Address: 03720000
17
18CS:EIP > 16 00 83 03 8B 01 70 00 8B 01 70 00 B9 06 0C 02 
19         40 07 0C 02 FF 03 0C 02 46 07 0C 02 0A 04 0C 02 
20         3A 00 83 03 54 00 83 03 6E 00 83 03 88 00 83 03 
21         A2 00 83 03 FF 03 0C 02 02 01 E0 04 99 09 0C 02 
22         9F 09 0C 02 5D 04 0C 02 A5 09 0C 02 0D 02 E6 02 
23         B8 09 0C 02 8B 05 0C 02 02 0C 0C 02 08 0C 0C 02 
24         13 0C 0C 02 54 05 C0 D6 AD 06 0C 02 A4 F0 00 F0 
25         37 05 0C 02 DA 41 00 C0 72 10 A7 00 7C 10 A7 00 
26         03 1D 03 05 4B 01 01 04 56 01 01 04 86 10 A7 00 
27         90 10 A7 00 9A 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 54 02 70 00 
28         B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 
29         40 01 01 04 50 09 C0 D6 EA AE 10 A7 00 ED 00 F0 
30         B8 10 A7 00 48 04 03 05 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 
31         B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 
32         B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 
33         B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 8A 04 0C 02 FF 03 0C 02 
34         
35
36SS:ESP > 7B 02 03 05 8B 01 70 00 16 00 83 03 8B 01 70 00 
37         8B 01 70 00 B9 06 0C 02 40 07 0C 02 FF 03 0C 02 
38         46 07 0C 02 0A 04 0C 02 3A 00 83 03 54 00 83 03 
39         6E 00 83 03 88 00 83 03 A2 00 83 03 FF 03 0C 02 
40         02 01 E0 04 99 09 0C 02 9F 09 0C 02 5D 04 0C 02 
41         A5 09 0C 02 0D 02 E6 02 B8 09 0C 02 8B 05 0C 02 
42         02 0C 0C 02 08 0C 0C 02 13 0C 0C 02 54 05 C0 D6 
43         AD 06 0C 02 A4 F0 00 F0 37 05 0C 02 DA 41 00 C0 
44         72 10 A7 00 7C 10 A7 00 03 1D 03 05 4B 01 01 04 
45         56 01 01 04 86 10 A7 00 90 10 A7 00 9A 10 A7 00 
46         B8 10 A7 00 54 02 70 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 
47         B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 40 01 01 04 50 09 C0 D6 
48         EA AE 10 A7 00 ED 00 F0 B8 10 A7 00 48 04 03 05 
49         B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 
50         B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 
51         B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 B8 10 A7 00 
52         
53
54         F2 01 00 00 48 7A 7F 03 04 00 00 00 44 7A 7F 03 
55         08 6F 7F 03 C3 44 7B 03 B0 6D 7F 03 7E B4 7B 03 
56         34 8C 9B 03 05 8D 79 03 BC 00 00 00 7C 42 9D 03 
57         B4 42 9D 03 D0 42 9D 03 98 42 9D 03 D0 07 7D 03 
58         49 DA 82 03 00 00 00 00 30 6C 7F 03 48 6C 7F 03 
59         44 A6 81 03 06 00 00 00 10 98 9D 03 A0 43 7B 03 
60         9C 76 1A 00 23 7A FF FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 

61         10 98 9D 03 88 97 9D 03 60 C0 84 03 10 98 9D 03 
62         00 00 00 00 04 00 00 00 C3 A5 73 03 60 C0 84 03 
63         FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B0 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 
64         32 98 9D 03 04 D5 AA 03 A4 D4 AA 03 AB BC 73 03 
65         C6 BC 73 03 00 00 00 00 18 02 00 00 89 EE 79 03 
66         00 42 00 00 00 98 9D 03 90 98 9D 03 04 98 9D 03 
67         E4 97 9D 03 14 98 9D 03 02 00 00 00 00 FF 78 03 
68         14 98 9D 03 0E 00 00 00 04 98 9D 03 57 02 58 1E 
69         04 98 9D 03 03 CD 79 03 77 02 00 00 56 02 00 00 
70SS:EBP > 7C 98 9D 03 8C 98 9D 03 90 98 9D 03 0E 00 00 00 
71         D1 01 00 00 D1 01 00 00 64 98 9D 03 30 98 9D 03 
72         BC 32 AB 03 29 00 00 00 29 00 00 00 78 98 9D 03 
73         44 98 9D 03 A4 82 AB 03 A4 82 AB 03 29 00 00 00 
74         04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 4F 02 00 00 87 02 00 00 
75         74 05 00 00 46 02 00 00 B7 00 AB 03 00 00 FE 12 
76         00 00 C7 00 00 00 87 02 46 02 00 00 46 02 00 00 
77         01 06 00 00 81 00 00 00 29 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 
78         87 02 9D 03 98 98 9D 03 AB 03 00 00 01 01 00 00 
79         A4 82 00 00 01 06 00 00 8F 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 
80         4F 02 00 00 87 02 00 00 7D 51 7C 03 77 02 7C 03 
81         29 00 00 00 87 02 00 00 18 99 9D 03 87 02 00 00 
82         E4 98 9D 03 4F 02 00 00 E0 B9 7F 03 87 02 00 00 
83         0A 00 00 00 BA 30 00 00 49 06 00 00 3F DC 7A 03 
84         01 00 00 00 64 00 00 00 70 25 76 03 00 00 00 00 
85         00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 
86         
87
88
89   Application resource tracking details   
90===========================================
91
92
93Selectors
94=========
95
96 sel   base     limit  type D mem count
97----------------------------------------
980267 03700000 00004000 DATA 32 Y xxxx
99026F 03700AE0 000001BD DATA 32 Y xxxx
1000277 00000000 7FFEFFFF CODE 32 N 0001
101027F 037EF000 00000FFF CODE 16 N 0002
1020287 00000000 7FFEFFFF DATA 32 N 0003
103028F 03700CE8 00000043 DATA 32 Y xxxx
104
105Total selectors: 0006
106
107
108Linear memory blocks
109====================
110
111 handle    base    length 
112--------------------------
11301731520 03720000 002DA000 
11403700AE0 03700AE0 000001C0 
11503700CA8 03700CA8 00000018 
11603700CE8 03700CE8 00000044 
117
118Total Linear memory: 002DA21C (002DE000) in 00000004 blocks
119
120
121Linear memory locked
122====================
123
124  base    length 
125-----------------
126661E5350 ECE1ACB0 
127037AE95C 00000567 
128039D3FE8 00000041 
129039D4140 00000049 
130039D4028 00000101 
131039D4128 00000019 
132037FBA2C 00000005 
133039D4188 00000005 
134037FC000 00000BB1 
135037B2CAC 000009D3 
13600016910 00003FF0 
137037A0AC0 000031C1 
138037FA580 00000081 
139037FA600 00000005 
140039BF204 00000005 
141039BF1EC 00000005 
142039BF1F0 00000005 
143039BF1FC 00000005 
144039BF1F4 00000005 
145039BF1F8 00000005 
146039BF200 00000005 
147039BF1DC 00000005 
148039BF1E8 00000005 
149039BF1E0 00000005 
150039BF1E4 00000005 
1510001A910 00000AD0 
15203790C40 000018C1 
153037F6B28 00000081 
154037F6BA8 00000005 
155039BE294 00000005 
156039BE2A8 0000000D 
157039BE2A4 00000005 
158039BE2A0 00000005 
159039BE29C 00000005 
160039BE2B4 00000005 
161039BE298 00000005 
162037FBFE0 00000021 
163037B0CB0 00001FCC 
1640001B3F0 00002000 
165
166
167DOS memory blocks
168=================
169
170 sel   base    length 
171----------------------
172
173
174Protected mode interrupt vectors
175================================
176
177No sel   offset 
178----------------
179
180
181Protected mode exception vectors
182================================
183
184No sel   offset 
185----------------
18600 0277 037B3FE0 
18706 0277 037B3FFA 
18808 0277 037B4002 
1890C 0277 037B400A 
1900D 0277 037B4012 
1910E 0277 037B401A 
192
193
194Real mode interrupt vectors
195===========================
196
197No seg offset
198-------------
19900 03D1 3D94 
20001 0000 0000 
20102 0068 0062 
20203 0606 0062 
203
204
205Call-Backs
206==========
207
208  real        target
209-----------------------

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

VCPI Titles[/b] Dungeon Master II Wing Commander: Armada Strike Commander (Origin) Pacific Strike Privateer Wings of Glory […]
Show full quote

VCPI Titles[/b]
Dungeon Master II
Wing Commander: Armada
Strike Commander (Origin)
Pacific Strike
Privateer
Wings of Glory

Of course, if VCPI wasn't the issue, then maybe they really aren't fixable.

Origin's memory manager - JEMM - requires VCPI so these titles aren't fixable without major changes.
and Dungeon Master 2... This game does not need VCPI but won't work anyway - it's really badly written. There are several problems:
- all the movies (files: intro, end, credits & ftl) are just executables that play standard Interplay MVE movies. Unfortunately the player uses Flashtek dos extender which is simply incompatible (I wrote about problems with Flashtek in the Beneath a Steel Sky thread in the VMDSound forum). They can be probably replaced by another player (if found in some other interplay game) or even with windows executables 😉 For now I simply copied file "splash" in their places (shows interplay logo).
- the code is compiled with Watcom C (uses dos4gw) but for some reason all their "kernel" routines are 16-bit and loaded before starting the main executable as one big TSR/loader.
- the game will not work in Windows 9x but it might be possible to fix it for NT 😉 Stupid programmer used bit 31 of a memory address as a flag. Windows 9x DPMI memory is always in range 8xxxxxxxh so the bit is already set and the game crashes instantly... and so on...
If I'll find some free time I will maybe try to fix it. For now it instantly allocates all my memory and XP often crashes (eats all my ram and swapfile).

-Mok

Snover wrote:

Had a problem with my mouse. peter's excellent utility fixed it. W00t to peter. W00t to Mok. W00t. […]
Show full quote

Had a problem with my mouse.
peter's excellent utility fixed it.
W00t to peter. W00t to Mok. W00t.

Vlad, mouseset is officially phased out. 😁

Bah. Now the DOS extender craps out on me. Are you sure you uploaded the correct EXE? 😉

Heh... Indeed I forgot to change back Causeway to big'n'ugly dos4gw. I use it often as it produces such a nice debug info 😉
But it's strange anyway. I tried the game with every Watcom-compatible or half-compatible dos extender and it worked: dos4gw, dos4g professional, Causeway, dos32a and PMODE/W. Just run it by typing dos4gw cdshock.exe and see if it helps.

-Mok