For the interested, will post some pictures during the weekend.

xnplater wrote on 2024-11-22, 21:02:

I recently bought a (quite) nicely preserved Toshiba Tecra 710CDT laptop on eBay - an awesome asset for reliving my retro memories/fantasies.

Congrats.

>However, the hard drive is obviously broken. When turning the laptop on,
>the POST and memory tests are OK, but the booting process ends with a HDC
>error.

Quite likely the HD is trashed, but I have seen system where the OS boot loader
was corrupted enough to cause continuous end-to-end seeks (sometimes banging
into the stops)... Don't expect good things, but might be worth trying the HD
in another non-boot setup (I like the little USB->SATA/IDE adapters. If you can
access it, keep it for a bit in case you need to recover any drivers from it.

>However, my next task will be to get a compact flash card into this thing
>and install DOS & Windows. What would be the best way to do this?
>- a floppy drive
>- a CD drive
>- I can plug in the compact flash in another computer
>- I also have a DOS/Windows PC (Pentium MMX 233MHz) that has a floppy
>drive and a CF-to-ide enclosure

Do you have a suitable hard drive to put in. If not, the CF *might* show up as
an IDE drive - I'd boot into BIOS and see it it gets detected as such.

For 3.1 (or 95/98 with separate DOS partition), or XP+
Boot DOS floppy, FDISK FORMAT/S to install DOS - copy on whatever want
- Use the full drive if 3.1, the size you want DOS if 9x
If you have Win3.1 CDs, run the setup
- otherwise copy on the 3.1 files and adjust config and autoexec as needed

98, 98, XP+
Boot the Windows CD perform setup.
(or possibly run SETUP from DOS)

Hopefully this is reasonably accurate - it has been years...

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

xnplater wrote on 2024-11-22, 21:02:

I recently bought a (quite) nicely preserved Toshiba Tecra 710CDT laptop on eBay - an awesome asset for reliving my retro memori […]
Show full quote

I recently bought a (quite) nicely preserved Toshiba Tecra 710CDT laptop on eBay - an awesome asset for reliving my retro memories/fantasies.

However, the hard drive is obviously broken. When turning the laptop on, the POST and memory tests are OK, but the booting process ends with a HDC error. The hard drive is making loud clicking noises as if the drive head is banging something. In the advert pictures the computer was shown as fully functioning (pics showed running Windows 98). So I presume the drive was either damaged before or during transport.

Anyway, I am happy with the overall state. Very few scratch or usage marks, no plastic seems to be broken (yet), it has a CD installed, an external floppy, and one extra battery. I already know that the first thing I need to do is to remove the onboard RTC and backup batteries and thoroughly check for any leaks.

However, my next task will be to get a compact flash card into this thing and install DOS & Windows. What would be the best way to do this?

So, this is what I have:
- a floppy drive
- a CD drive
- I can plug in the compact flash in another computer
- I also have a DOS/Windows PC (Pentium MMX 233MHz) that has a floppy drive and a CF-to-ide enclosure

What would you recommend? How should I proceed? Also where can I download these old OS-es?

I apologize for the newbie questions.

Thanks!

ive got a 300CDT ive just been sorting out, mine has a few problems so i cant install windows on the laptop so ive had to do it another way, it belonged to my grandad, he used to take it on his boat and it looks like its suffered from water damage, its got a watermark on one side of the screen which isnt too bad, the bigger issue is the keyboard has a lot of keys that dont work unless i hold down a key that does work at the same time, luckily i can plug in a ps2 keyboard, the other issue which is a big one is the cd drive is not fully functional as the laser unit doesnt move back and forth,

i did manage to install windows 98 using two different machines, first i used my thinkpad R40, i plugged in the hdd then use a win98 boot cd instead of floppy to format/create partitions, then a normal 98SE disc, after install i put nusb36 on the drive along with toshiba drivers and then switch the hdd to my 300CDT, i also have a 2.5 "to 3.5" 44 to 40pin IDE adapter having this adapter i can just use a faster desktop with IDE to install the Os as it will be a bit quicker than doing it on a laptop, i can also use the adapter to plug the hdd card into another pc and copy the contents of the hdd to a folder for backup, if i screw up the installation when installing drivers i just delete everything and copy the contents back across, saves having to sit through another win98 re-installation, since you've got an equivelent CF to IDE adapter it will save you a lot of time.

anyway since you dont have any of the problems i do, i would say plug in you CF card either into your toshiba or your pentium machine and use a win98 boot cdr (there are boot iso's out there) as its more reliable and quicker and easier to source than a floppy disk, use that to format you CF card then go for 98SE as it include all drivers for your toshiba, win95 doesnt have the drivers and is more of a hassle and just doesnt work as well, mine has similar hardware so i may be able to sort you some drivers from my toshiba cd.

heres the Yamaha OPL drivers i posted the other day, these should work for you, windows 98 will ask to install the WDM Yamaha OPL drivers, click cancel when it does, and use these drivers instead, you will have to go through device manager after install and direct it to the folder with the drivers
Re: Advice on retro gaming Windows 98 build

the other thing you will want is the video driver, mine is a 65555 yours is a 65550, so im not sure if its compatible, but the driver may support both chips, ill post it in a little while, win98 will install the onboard video but you will only have 800x600 resolution max, mine has an extra file that enables higher resolutions and panning, tho you will have less colours at higher resolutions.

heres the display driver it covers a fair few models, its for win95 but i'm using it on 98SE,

[Strings]
Mfg="Chips And Technologies, Inc."
*PNP0931.DeviceDesc="Chips And Technologies, Accelerator (new)"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00D8.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 65545 PCI (new)"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00B8.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 64310 PCI (new)"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00DC.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 65548 PCI (new)"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00E0.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 65550 PCI"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00E4.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 65554 PCI"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00E5.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 65555 PCI"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00F0.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 68554 PCI(Rev0)"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00F4.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 68554 PCI"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00F5.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 68555 PCI"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_00C0.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 69000 PCI"
PCI\VEN_102C&DEV_01E0.DeviceDesc="Chips and Tech. 65560 PCI"

this will install extra option in your display properties under Advanced called "Chips"which just displays some info on the driver and current mode, not really important i dont think but i dont remember the 98 driver having this extra option, the important part is the file in the "PANN1_4" folder, the file is called "PANNING.SYS" (panning support driver) it may be hidden so you might need to go to folder options and select show hidden files/folders, with just the display driver you will only have 800x600 (True Color 24bit) as a max resolution as thats all the LCD will do. with the panning file it will allow 1024x768 (High Color 16bit) as well as 1280x1024 (256 Colors) the desktop will be bigger than the screen but it will allow you to scroll, only really useful if your plugging into an external monitor that supports resolutions that high. i dont know if the panning.sys is compatible with the 98 display driver, so it may be better just to use the one in the .rar file

read the install.txt file in the "PANN1_4" folder. for installation which is as follows, it says to delete the monitor this didnt work for me, so i removed the display adapter in device manager then rebooted my laptop.

Installation:
1. Copy panning.sys to your \Windows\Command directory.
2. Add the following line to your config.sys:
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\PANNING.SYS
3. Restart Windows.
4. Go to Start->Settings->Control Panel->System->Device Manager->Monitor
and delete the device (e.g. Plug and Play Monitor) and then press "Refresh".

Many thanks for the kind and encouraging replies!

It seems I will need some more time to fully disassemble the laptop to remove the problematic batteries. I tried to improvise myself today, but quickly found out that it needs a real step-by-step disassembly, as per the maintenance manual.

So I guess I will have to sort that first before I go on installing the OS.

Btw I removed the hard drive and it is clear something is broken inside because it is making a clicking sound just when I holding the disconnected drive in my hand and gently shake it.

Posting some pictures as promised

Will update as I progress.

Get a compact flash card and 44 pin ide adapter.

Easiest way for me has to use RUFUS to format a CF card on a modern PC as a FREEDOS bootable drive and that works in my experience for all fixed disk or removable CF media. I do this with all my CF cards now, then copy the W9X installation files onto the card to run setup after boot. https://techlabs.blog/categories/guides/creat … s-on-windows-10

I am following up on the green NiMH batteries.

I was indeed lucky with this purchase. There is no visible battery damage, even though at least one battery (the RTC one) has already started leaking.

There was no trace of the leak along the wires to the circuit board. There were minor deposits visible on the metal plate covering, but nothing major (see image below). I removed both batteries and cleaned the deposits.

I assembled the laptop back up, and it POSTs. I did not yet receive the IDE2CF adapter. Once I get that, I will try installing Windows 98(SE) and the drivers according to the helpful advice posted above.

xnplater wrote on 2024-12-01, 15:34:

I am following up on the green NiMH batteries. […]
Show full quote

I am following up on the green NiMH batteries.

I was indeed lucky with this purchase. There is no visible battery damage, even though at least one battery (the RTC one) has already started leaking.

There was no trace of the leak along the wires to the circuit board. There were minor deposits visible on the metal plate covering, but nothing major (see image below). I removed both batteries and cleaned the deposits.

I assembled the laptop back up, and it POSTs. I did not yet receive the IDE2CF adapter. Once I get that, I will try installing Windows 98(SE) and the drivers according to the helpful advice posted above.

if they're old definitely a good idea to remove them, i left mine in my 300CDT as they didnt look like they were leaking, a few days ago i thought ill just remove them anyway just in case, and it will help knowing what they look like when i source replacements, anyway i cut some of the plastic wrap off and they were crusty underneath, also on the RTC one of the pins on the connector was green so it somehow leaked up through the cable.

DudeFace wrote on 2024-11-23, 03:30:

the file is called "PANNING.SYS" (panning support driver)

This panning driver is useless, I think. Toshiba laptop had panning.sys to let you scroll your screen horizontally and vertically at reduced resolution - a crude screen magnifier.

MAZter wrote on 2024-12-03, 18:27:

DudeFace wrote on 2024-11-23, 03:30:

the file is called "PANNING.SYS" (panning support driver)

This panning driver is useless, I think. Toshiba laptop had panning.sys to let you scroll your screen horizontally and vertically at reduced resolution - a crude screen magnifier.

yeah its not much use on the laptops lcd, it does give you increased resolutions upto 1280x1024 but since the laptops lcd can only display 800x600 its pretty much useless unless you plug into an external monitor that can display those resolutions but with the increase in resolution you also get a reduction in colour, guess its just the limitation of the 2mb graphics chip, still for dos games probably doesnt matter about the reduced colours.

I tried several options, but so far cannot get the laptop to boot from a CF card (I have a 8GB and a 4GB one).

I tried:

• using Rufus to create a bootable FreeDOS disk (FAT32), but it hangs at "Loading Freedos _", regardless of the Rufus settings (e.g. legacy BIOS).,
• using Rufus to create a bootable MS DOS 6.22 disk , but I get a "Disk I/O error" and then "Replace the disk and then press any key" .
• using VMware with the CF card as a physical disk to install Windows 98SE. VMware boots from this CF card just fine, but in the laptop I get a "Disk I/O error" and then "Replace the disk and then press any key" .

What other options do I have? Any ideas?

Btw, I have absolutely no idea how similar (or not) these are to what you have,
but over the years I've had a couple of Toshiba laptops:

Toshiba Tecra A3
Toshiba Portege 5100

I made .ISOs of both the "Recovery" and "Applications and Drivers" DVDs
for both systems

I still have the A3 and it is XP.

I think the Protege was also XP, but it's been quite a few years since I had
it, so I can't be sure.

If these might be useful to anyone, I can try and make them available for
download somewhere... (they are big - Looking at the DVDs I made, I can see
that the Recoverys are about 3/4 the DVD, the Apps and Drivers about 1/2)

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

xnplater wrote on 2024-12-07, 18:14:

I tried several options, but so far cannot get the laptop to boot from a CF card (I have a 8GB and a 4GB one).

I don't know how old that laptop is, but BIOS might not be able to see cards (drives) above a certain size.
IIRC there is a change in access methods needed to access above 2G and many older BIOS didn't know how
to do that. I also recall a vague memory of a limit at 512M ... might have been older versions of DOS.

Might be worth trying to make a card with a single small bootable partition - say <=20m (which is lots
for a simple DOS boot).

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

xnplater wrote on 2024-12-07, 18:14:

I tried several options, but so far cannot get the laptop to boot from a CF card (I have a 8GB and a 4GB one). […]
Show full quote

I tried several options, but so far cannot get the laptop to boot from a CF card (I have a 8GB and a 4GB one).

I tried:

• using Rufus to create a bootable FreeDOS disk (FAT32), but it hangs at "Loading Freedos _", regardless of the Rufus settings (e.g. legacy BIOS).,
• using Rufus to create a bootable MS DOS 6.22 disk , but I get a "Disk I/O error" and then "Replace the disk and then press any key" .
• using VMware with the CF card as a physical disk to install Windows 98SE. VMware boots from this CF card just fine, but in the laptop I get a "Disk I/O error" and then "Replace the disk and then press any key" .

What other options do I have? Any ideas?

1.if the cd drive is working, find a win98 boot iso burn it to cdr then use that to format the cf card on the laptop using
format c: /s/u
"s" is for startup disk to make the drive bootable, "u" is for unconditional format, then after format completes insert windows 98 cd and install as usual

2.plug the cf reader into a pc, format the card using a win98 boot cdr, install windows 98 with your pc, after install finishes transfer the cf card to laptop.

the second option is how i do it on my toshiba, since the cdrom drive isnt working i have to use a different pc or laptop for the install, i also transfer any driver files to a folder on c: for setup after ive swapped the drive to my laptop, at the very least you will want "nusb36" so you can install it first and tranfer any files later with a usb stick,

i only use rufus for installing win10/11, ive always had trouble using it for 95/98/m.e., its easier and quicker to just use a boot cd, you'll have to scour the internets for one, i forget where i found mine.

DaveDDS wrote on 2024-12-07, 22:08:

I don't know how old that laptop is, but BIOS might not be able to see cards (drives) above a certain size. IIRC there is a chan […]
Show full quote

xnplater wrote on 2024-12-07, 18:14:

I tried several options, but so far cannot get the laptop to boot from a CF card (I have a 8GB and a 4GB one).

I don't know how old that laptop is, but BIOS might not be able to see cards (drives) above a certain size.
IIRC there is a change in access methods needed to access above 2G and many older BIOS didn't know how
to do that. I also recall a vague memory of a limit at 512M ... might have been older versions of DOS.

Might be worth trying to make a card with a single small bootable partition - say <=20m (which is lots
for a simple DOS boot).

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Thanks! Your 2GB comment gave me an idea. I found out that the laptop can boot if the active primary partition is max 2GB in size. I also updated the BIOS to the latest one (5.A0), but so far did not try if that overcomes the 2GB limit.

The only way I was able to create a bootable disk is to present the CF card (inserted into an USB CF reader) to a DOS Vmware virtual machine as a physical disk, boot an install CD (such as the Windows 98 SE boot iso), and then creating the partition manually using FDISK, also making sure to override the MBR by using FDISK /MBR, and formatting it with FORMAT /S. If I put thusly prepared CF card into the laptop, it boots from it.

Some pictures:

I also tried installing windows 98 SE by copying the setup files onto the CF card. The installation seems to go through, however during one of the reboots the system does not boot anymore, I get a "Invalid system disk" or something similar (do not remember exactly, basically similar to the cases I was trying using Rufus and other unsuccessful approaches). Also taking the CF card out back into the USB card reader, it shows as unformatted on my PC. Strange.

Anyway, I see running DOS already as a huge success. I am mainly interested in using it as a DOS machine.

However, now I am thinking if I still may need Windows somehow to install the UNIVBE and sound drivers.

Many thanks to everyone for helping me get this far! I may return with additional questions.

Will see if I can install Windows

Do you have the CF card in an CF->IDE adapter?
If no, it's a good sign that the laptop knows how to boot from the CF = perhaps internally presents as an IDE?
(What does it show up as in the BIOS)

I suspect your problem installing Win98 stems from the setup files being on the drive you are trying to put Win98
on - perhaps something about the format is not what it wants to see on it's system disk.

Do the laptop have a working CD/DVD drive? If you could boot a Win98 setup CD and let it format and otherwise
have at the CF card, it might work.

or - if you can find another way to make the setup files available not on the CD (is the laptop smart enough to boot a USB)?

Was the original hard drive IDE? - Do you have another? Perhaps you could put the setup on a hard drive?

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

DaveDDS wrote on 2024-12-08, 21:24:

Do you have the CF card in an CF->IDE adapter? If no, it's a good sign that the laptop knows how to boot from the CF = perhaps i […]
Show full quote

Do you have the CF card in an CF->IDE adapter?
If no, it's a good sign that the laptop knows how to boot from the CF = perhaps internally presents as an IDE?
(What does it show up as in the BIOS)

I suspect your problem installing Win98 stems from the setup files being on the drive you are trying to put Win98
on - perhaps something about the format is not what it wants to see on it's system disk.

Do the laptop have a working CD/DVD drive? If you could boot a Win98 setup CD and let it format and otherwise
have at the CF card, it might work.

or - if you can find another way to make the setup files available not on the CD (is the laptop smart enough to boot a USB)?

Was the original hard drive IDE? - Do you have another? Perhaps you could put the setup on a hard drive?

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

I am using a CF to 44-pin IDE adapter. The Laptop is to old to boot from a CD or USB (it does not have USB), it can only boot from FDD & HDD. In the BIOS there is no section to see HDD information, such as CHS. I only have the option to enable PIO mode 4 or UDMA 2.

What I will do now is image the CF card to snapshot the current usable state of DOS, and try installing Windows 98 on the laptop. If that does not work, I can restore the image and try installing Windows 98 within VMware, and then putting the card back into the laptop.

One additional question. For DOS I have now drivers for the CD and mouse. The laptop uses the CS4232 chipset with Yamaha OPL3 (YMF262). I did not find any DOS drivers here for the CS4232 (only Windows).

Do I need any DOS drivers for audio? I forgot, I vaguely remember that back in the DOS days I had some drivers on my PCs defining the ports/addresses and IRQs, but maybe I'm mixing stuff up.

I think I posted a bit too soon. I found this https://www.dosdays.co.uk/media/crystal/cwd_dos.zip listed for the CS4232 chipset. Will try and report back.

Hmm, what make is the compact flash card? I've found an unbranded 4GB card quite recently produced that works for file storage and such with high transfer rates but I keep getting file system errors when I try to use it as an IDE / ATA device on an old computer. Which also results in crashes during the Windows install.
The troublesome ones I have are marked 4GB CompactFlash MLC / Diamond but are otherwise unbranded, produced only within the last few years. Usually I stick to Sandisk and Transcend, or go with traceable industrial compactflash cards with SLC flash, which I'll continue doing since attempting to save money on cheaper cards has resulted in cards I can't use as hard drives.

Additionally, you could double check that the caddy is making good contact. I had similar weirdness with laptop where I hadn't screwed the caddy together fully so the caddy connector wasn't making good contact with the mainboard, that also resulted in problems with stability and installing windows.