Usually when I use bad copy it's a matter of a few minutes to see if there are files to recover and attempt to recover them off the disk. If things are exceeding 20 minutes of reading (realistically, if no result after 5-10 minutes) I don't think it will come up with anything.

Yeah, it didn't find anything during the first scan. And then there were two... I've forgotten what they were referred to as... But two 'segments', for lack of a better word, and it found nothing on the first one, so it was unlikely to find anything on the second. 🙁

Problem I have now is finding the exact version I have online and getting an image of it. Most are either the shareware or the US versions, whereas the one I have is the UK/European US Gold version.

Okay, there might still be a chance of recovering the files. Maaaaaybe. I decided to reformat the disk and now iCare Format is finding stuff. Funny how it takes reformatting a disk to help it find data. ^^ If I'm able to recover the files that way, then great!

Okay, sadly, I wasn't able to recover anything from it after all, however, I did manage to find, what I believe, is the correct version and image file of disk 1. 😁 The problem I have now, is because I reformatted it, the capacity of the original disk is no longer 1.44. It always winds up being 1.38, so I can't put everything on.

I know they're delicate, but are floppy disks really that delicate...? I just tried swapping the disk inside with a couple of floppies, I made sure to be gentle and careful, but now the 98 PC just won't read them properly at all. 🙁 It won't even format them in Windows, DOS, or pure/true DOS; it keeps giving up. As far as I'm aware, they've been reassembled correctly, along with the write protection piece, but yeah... Really weird.

How would one go about getting an image that's 1.44MB onto a floppy disk that's supposed to be 1.44, but always shows as 1.38?

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-13, 20:45:

How would one go about getting an image that's 1.44MB onto a floppy disk that's supposed to be 1.44, but always shows as 1.38?

Interesting - if it's a 3.5" high density disk, configured correctly in BIOS, it should format to 1.44M.

How exactly did you format it? - Perhaps there are "hidden" things that occupy space that don't show up?

If you have a DOS system - what exactly do you get output from FORMAT and CHKDSK?

Also, if you have DOS, you can use my XDISK tool to write simple images (1,474,560 byte file which contains all 2880 sectors of the disk - 2Sides x 80Tracks x 18Sectors = 2880Sectors x 512bytes/sector = 1,474,560 bytes total capacity)
It has the advantage that it can format the disk as it writes it.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-13, 18:07:

I know they're delicate, but are floppy disks really that delicate...? ...

No, and yes! - the media itself can be easily damaged, but the jacket protects it quite well (esp for 3.5" with the sliding cover and stiffer sides).

The main problem that comes with older media is that it deteriorates, the magnetic material starts to unbond from the flexible (ie: "floppy" carrier). When this starts to happen, just reading it in a good properly adjusted drive can "help" the magnetic material come off.

- and of course "crud" on the heads can scratch anytime!

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-13, 23:50:

No, and yes! - the media itself can be easily damaged, but the jacket protects it quite well (esp for 3.5" with the sliding cove […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-13, 18:07:

I know they're delicate, but are floppy disks really that delicate...? ...

No, and yes! - the media itself can be easily damaged, but the jacket protects it quite well (esp for 3.5" with the sliding cover and stiffer sides).

The main problem that comes with older media is that it deteriorates, the magnetic material starts to unbond from the flexible (ie: "floppy" carrier). When this starts to happen, just reading it in a good properly adjusted drive can "help" the magnetic material come off.

- and of course "crud" on the heads can scratch anytime!

I see. At any rate, I was very careful when handling them. Particularly for the original Rise disk. I didn't touch the surface of it at all; just the sides.

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-13, 23:42:

Interesting - if it's a 3.5" high density disk, configured correctly in BIOS, it should format to 1.44M. […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-13, 20:45:

How would one go about getting an image that's 1.44MB onto a floppy disk that's supposed to be 1.44, but always shows as 1.38?

Interesting - if it's a 3.5" high density disk, configured correctly in BIOS, it should format to 1.44M.

How exactly did you format it? - Perhaps there are "hidden" things that occupy space that don't show up?

If you have a DOS system - what exactly do you get output from FORMAT and CHKDSK?

Also, if you have DOS, you can use my XDISK tool to write simple images (1,474,560 byte file which contains all 2880 sectors of the disk - 2Sides x 80Tracks x 18Sectors = 2880Sectors x 512bytes/sector = 1,474,560 bytes total capacity)
It has the advantage that it can format the disk as it writes it.

How would it be configured in the BIOS? I've tried formatting it on my Windows 10 machine with external floppy drive, I've tried formatting it under Windows 98 in Explorer, and, of course, under DOS. In Windows and true DOS. I'll have to format it again and take a pic of the output. After formatting this disk, it hasn't complained of any issues since. I'll have to take another look at XDISK is a sec.

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-13, 23:42:

Interesting - if it's a 3.5" high density disk, configured correctly in BIOS, it should format to 1.44M. […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-13, 20:45:

How would one go about getting an image that's 1.44MB onto a floppy disk that's supposed to be 1.44, but always shows as 1.38?

Interesting - if it's a 3.5" high density disk, configured correctly in BIOS, it should format to 1.44M.

How exactly did you format it? - Perhaps there are "hidden" things that occupy space that don't show up?

If you have a DOS system - what exactly do you get output from FORMAT and CHKDSK?

Also, if you have DOS, you can use my XDISK tool to write simple images (1,474,560 byte file which contains all 2880 sectors of the disk - 2Sides x 80Tracks x 18Sectors = 2880Sectors x 512bytes/sector = 1,474,560 bytes total capacity)
It has the advantage that it can format the disk as it writes it.

I'm guessing it's due to the bad sectors...? 🙁 Which no doubt, nothing can be done about it?

Came across this thread last night - Floppy Disks and Bad Sectors - and gave NFORMAT a shot. That also listed a load of bad sectors, but I'm not too sure if it fixed any. In Windows, it still says 1.38MB. I'm guessing I would have to use the magnet trick mentioned in that thread...? Not quite sure what I need exactly or how to approach it.

Okay. Looking into getting a magnet. Possibly a fishing magnet...?

I'm afraid I'm a bit lost with ImageDisk. I feel a bit overwhelmed and confused on what I should do, how, and why. Not sure what settings to use for (full) formatting or how to transfer an image file to a disk. Or if I should even bother considering the amount of bad sectors present. Not even sure if using a HDD magnet will solve the issues or just make things worse as usual. 🙁

Okay, I have a couple of things to try. I do have a spare floppy that looks to have zero issues. No bad sectors etc. Though still only reads as being 1.38Mb. Unlike my Rise disk, which shows 50-100Kb as being used after reformatting, this issue-free disk shows nothing as being used. So I’ll try RAWWrite and see if it puts the contents of my disk 1 image to it. I have a horrible feeling it still won’t. 😕

If it does, then I’ll wait until a couple of spare HDD magnets I’ve ordered arrive, and then try using one of those and see if I can fix the bad sectors that way.

Be aware that ImageDisk does NOT to any operating system compatible file system format.

ImageDisk was designed to do anything that was possible on the PC floppy controller, mainly for the purpose of archiving and restoring as many as possible of the various disks that were used on (ptr-PC) classic systems.

So, ImageDisk does NOT "know about" any particular OSs file system format.
The ImageDisk Format function performs only a low-level format of the disk - no operating system will recognize the freshly formatted disk.
The format function exists mainly to help in testing, and to prepare disks for images being written by a tool that does not do formatting as it
writes.

You could try the "erase" function - note that the NEC 765 FDC used in a PC does not have the capability to completely remove sector data.
ImageDisk "fakes" an erase by initiating a format with an sector size that cannot "fit" - resulting in sector data that won't be recognized as "valid" by other tools.

If you can find one I recommend you use a "bulk tape eraser" to completely unformat a disk - this is a strong electromagnet which alternately reverses the magnetic domains on the disk.
You activate it, run it over the disk, and pull it well away before deactivating - that way there won't be an abnormal amount of aligned domains.

(If you can't find one, and you are comfortable "building stuff" - you could make one, just a suitable mains powered transformer driving a suitable coil of wire)

Also, highly recommend taking time to read all of ImageDisks documentation and online help text.

I did put a fair bit of effort into describing and providing information about how floppy disk systems work.

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-15, 13:32:

Be aware that ImageDisk does NOT to any operating system compatible file system format. […]
Show full quote

Be aware that ImageDisk does NOT to any operating system compatible file system format.

ImageDisk was designed to do anything that was possible on the PC floppy controller, mainly for the purpose of archiving and restoring as many as possible of the various disks that were used on (ptr-PC) classic systems.

So, ImageDisk does NOT "know about" any particular OSs file system format.
The ImageDisk Format function performs only a low-level format of the disk - no operating system will recognize the freshly formatted disk.
The format function exists mainly to help in testing, and to prepare disks for images being written by a tool that does not do formatting as it
writes.

You could try the "erase" function - note that the NEC 765 FDC used in a PC does not have the capability to completely remove sector data.
ImageDisk "fakes" an erase by initiating a format with an sector size that cannot "fit" - resulting in sector data that won't be recognized as "valid" by other tools.

If you can find one I recommend you use a "bulk tape eraser" to completely unformat a disk - this is a strong electromagnet which alternately reverses the magnetic domains on the disk.
You activate it, run it over the disk, and pull it well away before deactivating - that way there won't be an abnormal amount of aligned domains.

(If you can't find one, and you are comfortable "building stuff" - you could make one, just a suitable mains powered transformer driving a suitable coil of wire)

So what you're saying is, ImageDisk will format it in such a way that it can have images written to it, but Windows won't recognise it as such and it will read like any other formatted disk?

I think I did use the Erase option, but I can't remember what happened or what it came up with. I'll have to give it another go.

Yeah, I have no experience with building stuff. Certainly not something like that. ^^; I'm not sure if a tape eraser was ever released in the UK...? Listings on eBay seem to be in the States. That was the device I saw someone use in a YouTube video, which led me to looking into magnets. So I reckon I'll have to stick to the HDD magnets I ordered.

Thanks.

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-15, 13:34:

Also, highly recommend taking time to read all of ImageDisks documentation and online help text.

I did put a fair bit of effort into describing and providing information about how floppy disk systems work.

Yes, I was thinking yesterday I'll need to give the documentation a thorough read. ^^

Okay, awesome. Used DFORMAT to format this fully functional disk and then used RAWWrite to write the contents of the Rise disk 1 to it. Did it without issues. 😁 So yeah, the official disk needs a bit of magnetism, I think. The bad sectors obviously can't be used so it's not making use of its full capacity. If the magnet trick doesn't work, I'll attempt to remove the diskette out of this working one and put it in the official one. Just a bit worried about doing that as when I tried that with another disk I thought was fine, it suddenly stopped working properly altogether.