VOGONS


socket 3 system on stereoids *Updated*

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First post, by Amigaz

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Since I started my socket 3 motherboard collrecting frenzy I hgave always wanted to build a very high spec socket 3 machine so about 2 weeks ago I finally had the last bits'n'pieces to build one.
The result was this:

Motherboard:
Asus 486 PV/I SP3 rev 1.22, a funny thing is that even though my board isn't the latest rev it has the latest SiS chipset revision

CPU:
Cyrix Cx5x86 120gp @120mhz

Memory:
2x 32mb 60ns FPM simm's

Graphics card:
Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 2mb 50ns EDO DRAM

Sound card(s):
Sound Blaster 16 CT2800 (Vibra 16 chip) *NEW*
Gravis Ultrasound PnP rev 1.0
Music Quest MPU401 (roland MPU401 compatible)
Roland CM-500

Other cards:
Asus PCI-SC200 PCI Fast SCSI-2 card
This card apparently came as an extra option with the Asus boards around this time.

Storage:
Mitsumi 5.25inch 1.2mb floppy drive
Panasonic 3.5inch 1.44mb floppy drive
IBM Ultrastar 10k rpm 18gig SCSI drive
MKE (Panasonic) 4x SCSI CD-RW *NEW*

Case:
Targa desktop "pizza box" case

Here's a benchmark I did with speedsys.
note: I hadn't installed the Diamond card yet when I did this benchmark

asusny9.png

Last edited by Amigaz on 2009-02-22, 13:55. Edited 1 time in total.

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 1 of 25, by valnar

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Cyrix? Really?

I mean, I know it's a fast processor, but in the name of retrogaming we're not trying to make these things as fast as can be. Why not just then build a socket 5 instead?

I always had problems with Cyrix CPU's in the 90's with incompatibility problems. I was a tech at CompUSA between 1994-1996 and cursed their name several times.

Reply 2 of 25, by swaaye

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Yeah Cyrix chips have compatibility problems for sure. Some games not work will not work with them. Heck, some hardware won't either. I remember a special Sound Blaster Live! driver patch for 6x86/MII CPUs.

That's why I always say that the Am5x86 is the way to go. It's a 486 and it "just works" with software. It's less bug ridden than Cyrix 5x86 and mobo vendors took it more seriously because, well, it is just a 486 with write back L1. Until you start needing Pentium instructions they are awesome, and a Cyrix chip isn't necessarily going to work there either.

And believe it or not, a 160MHz Am5x86 will beat that 120 MHz Cx5x86 for the most part. Maybe not on FPU stuff, but that kind of code was rather rare until Quake. If FPU is important for your DOS desires, you want a PPro anyway. 😉

Reply 3 of 25, by WolverineDK

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what about an overdrive cpu instead then ? Amigaz, do what you feel is right 😀

Reply 4 of 25, by Amigaz

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valnar wrote:

Cyrix? Really?

I mean, I know it's a fast processor, but in the name of retrogaming we're not trying to make these things as fast as can be. Why not just then build a socket 5 instead?

I always had problems with Cyrix CPU's in the 90's with incompatibility problems. I was a tech at CompUSA between 1994-1996 and cursed their name several times.

Well, I built this system just for fun...to see how fast a very high spec socket 3 system is compared to a pentium system.
For retro purposes I have my 286, 386, 486, Pentium Pro and AMD K6 boxes so now worries 😁
I'm 100% covered for DOS game compatability 😎

Last edited by Amigaz on 2008-12-04, 08:14. Edited 1 time in total.

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 5 of 25, by Amigaz

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swaaye wrote:

Yeah Cyrix chips have compatibility problems for sure. Some games not work will not work with them. Heck, some hardware won't either. I remember a special Sound Blaster Live! driver patch for 6x86/MII CPUs.

That's why I always say that the Am5x86 is the way to go. It's a 486 and it "just works" with software. It's less bug ridden than Cyrix 5x86 and mobo vendors took it more seriously because, well, it is just a 486 with write back L1. Until you start needing Pentium instructions they are awesome, and a Cyrix chip isn't necessarily going to work there either.

And believe it or not, a 160MHz Am5x86 will beat that 120 MHz Cx5x86 for the most part. Maybe not on FPU stuff, but that kind of code was rather rare until Quake. If FPU is important for your DOS desires, you want a PPro anyway. 😉

Any particular gaes that don't work? I've so far thrown 100-150 games on this CPU without any issues....I bet Win9x will have troubles with it
This machine is rock solid as it is now and very fast but I think it's thanks to the good quality motherboard I'm using and latest chipset/BIOS
I actually have an am5x86 system but it's runing at 4x33mhz but I'm very dissapointed with it's performance in SVGA games...you think 4x40mhz will make a huge difference?

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 6 of 25, by Amigaz

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WolverineDK wrote:

what about an overdrive cpu instead then ? Amigaz, do what you feel is right 😀

"Been there, done that", have two of then (new old stock)
The performance is worse than an am5x86 and the fan is noisy as hell 😜

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 7 of 25, by valnar

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Amigaz wrote:

Any particular gaes that don't work?

Well, I can't remember what programs I had issues with, but it was mostly instability and crashing. Knowing what I used to do back in the 90's, it might be problems with QEMM386 or 386MAX to start.

There may also be specific hardware incompatibilities that you haven't hit because of your hardware selection. Intel and AMD were 100% compatible with each other. I think Cyrix was not. Close, but not exact.

Reply 8 of 25, by dh4rm4

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Magic Carpet had some issues with Cyrix chips - I think it was either save corruption or gamebraking stuff in the later levels.

Reply 9 of 25, by Amigaz

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dh4rm4 wrote:

Magic Carpet had some issues with Cyrix chips - I think it was either save corruption or gamebraking stuff in the later levels.

Going to give that game a go then 😉

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 10 of 25, by Amigaz

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Did some improvements to this unit today.

Installed a Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT2800 for overall cleaner sound and connected the pc speaker output from the motherboard to to it.

Also replaced the extremely noisy Plextor 40x cd-rom drive with a more silent cd-rw unit

Have noticed some issues with the I/O on this PC, sometimes I get CRC checksum failures when moving stuff from cd-rom or floppy's to the harddrive...I think it's the 40mhz FSB setting that is to blame...must see if I can change some BIOS settings..

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 11 of 25, by 5u3

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Amigaz wrote:

Have noticed some issues with the I/O on this PC, sometimes I get CRC checksum failures when moving stuff from cd-rom or floppy's to the harddrive...I think it's the 40mhz FSB setting that is to blame...must see if I can change some BIOS settings..

That's the onboard CMD640 IDE controller raising its ugly head.

Found in the cmd640 Linux driver:

These chips are basically fucked by design, and getting this driver to work on every motherboard design that uses this screwed chip seems bloody well impossible. However, we're still trying.

🤣

On my board, configuring the PIO transfer mode to a lower setting helps (Chipset features setup, IDE [0/1] [master/slave] mode; change this from "auto" to 3 or 2).

Reply 12 of 25, by Amigaz

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5u3 wrote:
That's the onboard CMD640 IDE controller raising its ugly head. […]
Show full quote
Amigaz wrote:

Have noticed some issues with the I/O on this PC, sometimes I get CRC checksum failures when moving stuff from cd-rom or floppy's to the harddrive...I think it's the 40mhz FSB setting that is to blame...must see if I can change some BIOS settings..

That's the onboard CMD640 IDE controller raising its ugly head.

Found in the cmd640 Linux driver:

These chips are basically fucked by design, and getting this driver to work on every motherboard design that uses this screwed chip seems bloody well impossible. However, we're still trying.

🤣

On my board, configuring the PIO transfer mode to a lower setting helps (Chipset features setup, IDE [0/1] [master/slave] mode; change this from "auto" to 3 or 2).

I'm using all SCSI, the Asus SC-200 SCSI board that was made for this mobo
Can't get some cd-rom based games going...they get almost instant cd read errors
Is there a way to control the PCI divider on these boards?

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 13 of 25, by Amigaz

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Changed the FSB jumpers to 33mhz, no more weird CRC errors
Guess I'm sticking back the Cx5x86 100gp again

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 14 of 25, by Anonymous Coward

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See if your 120MHz 5x86 chip has the 4x multiplier. Some of them did. In that case you might be able to run it at 4x33MHz.

Is your am5x86 system with the slow SVGA your VL/EISA system? In that case, I strongly recommend ET4000W32P. At least on the VL bus it is much faster than any S3 product I have tried so far.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 15 of 25, by Amigaz

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Anonymous Coward wrote:

See if your 120MHz 5x86 chip has the 4x multiplier. Some of them did. In that case you might be able to run it at 4x33MHz.

Is your am5x86 system with the slow SVGA your VL/EISA system? In that case, I strongly recommend ET4000W32P. At least on the VL bus it is much faster than any S3 product I have tried so far.

Yeah, I might try that setting next weekend...now I have to look forward to 5 days of work 😜 😁

Which "slow" SVGA system are you refering to?

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 17 of 25, by Amigaz

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Anonymous Coward wrote:

You mentioned an am5x86 system with SVGA performance you were really disappointed in.

Yeah, that problem was solved long time ago

Slow video performance

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 18 of 25, by 5u3

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Oh, forgot about the NCR 810 SCSI card.

The board/chipset doesn't support PCI dividers, so other PCI harddisk controllers most likely would have problems as well.
If you want to run 40MHz on the PVI-486SP3, I'm afraid you'll have to use the crappy onboard CMD640 or insert a VLB/ISA based controller.

Reply 19 of 25, by Anonymous Coward

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This is why I favour the VL/EISA boards. I can run the VL bus at any crazy speed I like but still run high performance disk controllers in spec.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium