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Reply 20 of 32, by Nicht Sehr Gut

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Originally posted by Lobivopsis They should have done a 1024x768 16-bit color 2D game instead of that 3D crap IMHO. Only recently have 3-D graphics started to be able to approach the detail of 2D artwork.

Unfortunately true. While I always wanted a 3D version of "Britannia" (and the rest of Ultima), even the resource-eating engine of Ultima9 couldn't handle it...resulting in "truncated" versions of well-known locations.

Reply 21 of 32, by Lobivopsis

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Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Unfortunately true. While I always wanted a 3D version of "Britannia" (and the rest of Ultima), even the resource-eating engine of Ultima9 couldn't handle it...resulting in "truncated" versions of well-known locations.

What I always wanted was a side scrolling adventure game based on the Ultima franchise, sort of like Metroid but medieval rather than science fiction.

Years later Konami did almost this exact thing with Castlevania: Symphony of the Night on the Playstation, and it's still considered the pinnacle of 2D games to this day. Unfortunatly the upcoming PS2 Castlevania game is going to be 3D 🙁

Reply 22 of 32, by HunterZ

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They did make a new Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance (or something like that) for Game Boy Advance that is *very* reminiscent of CV:SotN. Definitely worth checking out if you're a fan of SotN.

Reply 23 of 32, by Lobivopsis

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HunterZ wrote:

They did make a new Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance (or something like that) for Game Boy Advance that is *very* reminiscent of CV:SotN. Definitely worth checking out if you're a fan of SotN.

But not as good IMHO, and then there's the low res screen. IMHO the best Castlevania game is SOTN on the PSX, followed by Rondo Of Blood on the PC-Engine CD/TG-16 CD

Interesting fact about SONT: It's actually a polygon game. Try playing it on epsxe with Pete's OGL driver and check the "line mode" option. You'll see that the tiles and sprites used by the game are actually little 2D polygon "billboards".

Last edited by Lobivopsis on 2003-10-16, 16:21. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 24 of 32, by HunterZ

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That's interesting. I wonder if that's the way all 2D PSX games work? Or, maye it's related to the fact that it was originally a Sega CD game. I also wonder what it would look like played on a PS2 with PSX texture smoothing enabled.

Reply 25 of 32, by Lobivopsis

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Originally posted by HunterZ
That's interesting. I wonder if that's the way all 2D PSX games work? Or, maye it's related to the fact that it was originally a Sega CD game.

SOTN was never under development for the Sega-CD. There was a Castlevania under development for the 32X add-on, but it died early in development.

I also wonder what it would look like played on a PS2 with PSX texture smoothing enabled.

It looks ugly with texture filtering enabled, just like all PSX games.

2D on 3D works great in Open-GL too, just upload your textures and tiles to the graphics card's texture memory and put them on 2D billboards. You can now move them around and stretch, scale or rotate them in hardware. You don't have to do screen writes, the graphics card handles all that for you. You now have platform independant hardware sprites and multiple scrolling planes with effects.

Even cooler, if you're using 3D rendered sprites, you can use the alpha channel to mask your sprite and not have to clean any dark edges off it.

In Lightwave you'd do it like this:

Place the object to be rendered on a black background and in the render options turn on "Fader alpha mode", this is the same as you'd do to composite the image over somthing else (like film, video, or whatever). It saves out the RGB channels and alpha channel seperately without combining them into an RGB image. (if you're using Photoshop, save the RGB and alpha to seperate images, Photoshop messes up the RGB channels in RGBA images)

Use the RGBA channels for your sprite or tile texture. It will anti-alias against any background (the AA was calculated in the alpha channel when you renderd the sprite) with no dark fringes. What you are doing here is real time compositing in hardware, neat.

DX8 actually merged 2D blits into the 3D pipeline, but I'm not sure how much control you have over them (haven't looked closely at that)

Reply 26 of 32, by HunterZ

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Lobivopsis wrote:

SOTN was never under development for the Sega-CD. There was a Castlevania under development for the 32X add-on, but it died early in development.

Whoops. I don't know much about those systems, so I always get them confused. Ah, I just looked it up on GameFAQs: it was originally a Sega Saturn game. Sega sure made a lot of systems - a lot that I never even saw.

It looks ugly with texture filtering enabled, just like all PSX games.

Ah. Haven't tried playing PSX games on a PS2, much less using its texture filtering option. I just noticed that it had one. Souds disappointing 🙁

2D on 3D works great in Open-GL too, just upload your textures and tiles to the graphics card's texture memory and put them on 2D billboards.

DX8 actually merged 2D blits into the 3D pipeline, but I'm not sure how much control you have over them (haven't looked closely at that)

I did some OpenGL programming in college - it's pretty neat. I felt limited by the fact that we were using skeleton code and Trolltech's Qt SDK (or API or whatever it is). I'd really like to learn Win32, MFC, DirectX, and OpenGL programming at a level where I wouldn't need to use skeleton code or other 3rd-party wrapper SDKs/APIs.

Reply 27 of 32, by Lobivopsis

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Originally posted by HunterZ Whoops. I don't know much about those systems, so I always get them confused. Ah, I just looked it up on GameFAQs: it was originally a Sega Saturn game. Sega sure made a lot of systems - a lot that I never even saw.

No, it was done on the PS1 and then ported to the Saturn. This is why there is some extra stuff in the Saturn version (2 new areas, as well as some other minor things) These were left out of the PS1 version because they ran out of time. You can actually get into an incomplete passagway that was supposed to lead to the Underground Gardens (but was never finished). It's under a closed grate at the beginning of the game but there is a trick you can do that lets you get inside, though the only thing there is a dead end and a save point.

I have both and despite the extras the Saturn version is generally inferior. It has more slowdowns, and the effects don't look as good as in the PS version (The Saturn can do transparency, but not true alpha)

Ah. Haven't tried playing PSX games on a PS2, much less using its texture filtering option. I just noticed that it had one. Souds disappointing 🙁

Don't know what the PS2 would look like, but I know that in an emulator it looks horrible. On the other hand, playing 2D games on a high res display makes rotation and scaling effects look really great (less distortion of the sprite when rotating, and they retain more detail when scaled down)

Reply 28 of 32, by HunterZ

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You're right - I must have got confused by some bad info or misreading something somewhere. At any rate, SotN for PSX kicks ass, and is easily the best Castlevania game I've played. Castlevania II for NES was good due to its similar play style, but it is (of course) much more primitive. The new GBA Castlevania (HoD) looks promising, although it may be a cheap knock-off of SotN intended by Konami to be a cash-cow. I sure hope not 😉

Reply 29 of 32, by cypher-neo

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I was so sorry to see "Secret of Vulcan Fury" die... 😠

Warcraft was good too... 🙁

Another thing that I hated was when the first chapter of a good adventure game would be released as shareware or freeware but the next chapters had to be registered (at some unbelievably exorbitant price).

Cypher-Neo

Reply 30 of 32, by Nicht Sehr Gut

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Originally posted by Lobivopsis IMHO the best Castlevania game is SOTN on the PSX,...

Luckily, I just recently found this at Half-Price Books at a bargain price.

I look forward to playing it...as soon as I can remove the horrible scratches left on the CD.

Reply 31 of 32, by Lobivopsis

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Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Luckily, I just recently found this at Half-Price Books at a bargain price.

I look forward to playing it...as soon as I can remove the horrible scratches left on the CD.

Try to find Strider II on the PSX as well, it kicks ass. (this has nothing to do with Us Gold's lame "Strider II" on the Amiga and Megadrive.)

Reply 32 of 32, by Pashitos

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Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

OTOH, the "Warcraft Adventures" was no big loss. Budget animation cut-scenes being done by people in a far-away country that knew virtually nothing about Warcraft and a storyline about the poor Orcs being oppressed by the terrible humans (apparently we were supposed ignore everything that happened in Warcraft I and II).

Arts for Warcraft Adventures were made in Russia (St. Peterburg I think), which had so many Warcraft fans, you couldn`t believe. They knew what they were doing.