VOGONS


First post, by vmunix

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Ok guys I give up. I thought I could sort this out alone but I really don't know where I am failing.

System.
Soyo 5EHM (via mvp3) I know what you are thinking but trust me I have the same mobo since 1999 and it is rock solid stable.

AMD k6-III 450 (perhaps is too fast for very old games?)
Windows 98se, but I'm at real mode DOS
Diamond Monster Fusion (voodoo banshee).

Tried with 3 types of sound cards.
Crystal based Turtle Beach Tropez+ and a TB Tropez Lite
Yamaha SAx YMF719
Aureal 8830 (Montego 2 + XR385) PCI of course.

I'm using real mode DOS, a .pif which includes the following config

autoexec.bat

C:\TBEACH\DOSAPPS\SETUPSND.EXE C:\TBEACH\DOSAPPS\WFOS2001.MOT <-- this loads the wavetable synth
REM -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
C:\TBEACH\DOSAPPS\TBSMIX.EXE /M=10 /F=15 /W=10 /L=12 /C=12
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
SET TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
SET PROMPT=$p$g
SET PATH=C:\TBEACH\DOSAPPS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
REM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
REM This CD-Line is for most EIDE drives. See your CD manual for other CD-ROMS
LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /S /D:MSCD001 /M:10
REM -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
LH c:\mouse\dos\gmouse.com

config.sys
Device=C:\WINDOWS\Himem.Sys
Device=C:\WINDOWS\Emm386.exe ram
Device=C:\TBEACH\DOSAPPS\TBS2001.EXE /O
DOS=HIGH,UMB
REM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
REM This CD-Line will work for most EIDE CD-ROM Drives
REM See your CD manual for other CD-ROMS
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\TB-IDE.SYS /D:MSCD001
REM -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I get around 615 kb of base memory with this.

So what it does work.

X-Wing CE and Tie Fighter CE flawlessly; GMIDI + SB Pro
Dark Forces, Descent I etc.

Partial works
Sam&Max works only selecting 4op FM music, it locks hard the sound card configuration utility if I select GMIDI

Not acceptable working
Indiana Jones FoA only works GMIDI, no digital sound effects (voice) , not even if I select OPL synthesys, so it's totally the oposite scenario than S&M but at least it doesn't lockup, I get a garbled noise if I select soundblaster.

DOTT only GMIDI works, no voice

With the Montego2 (vortex) only in windows dos box some games sort of works but it's very unstable, and in real mode DOS I get the same lockups in Sam&Max when I try the XR385 MPU401 interface. Not a soundcard for DOS gaming

I thought the solution would be to install the Yamaha SAx and it's even WORSE!!
DOTT locks after the Lucas Arts logo with a hanging note, Indy never starts and S&M works like the TBeach, and guess what, it locks up the same way if I select Gmidi.

These are the DOS config files with the Yamaha:

CONFIG SYS 4.0
­Device=C:\WINDOWS\Himem.Sys
Device=C:\WINDOWS\Emm386.exe ram
DOS=HIGH,UMB
REM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
REM This CD-Line will work for most EIDE CD-ROM Drives
REM See your CD manual for other CD-ROMS
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\TB-IDE.SYS /D:MSCD001
REM -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AUTOEXECBAT 4.0 ÿÿ QREM -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

C:\PROGRA~1\YAMAHA\YAMAHA~1\SETUPSA.EXE /S
rem SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
SET TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET WINBOOTDIR=C:\WINDOWS
SET PROMPT=$P$G
SET PATH=C:\TBEACH\DOSAPPS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
REM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
REM THIS CD-LINE IS FOR MOST EIDE DRIVES. SEE YOUR CD MANUAL FOR OTHER CD-ROMS
LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /S /D:MSCD001 /M:10
REM -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
LH C:\MOUSE\DOS\GMOUSE.COM
REM
REM THE FOLLOWING LINES HAVE BEEN CREATED BY WINDOWS. DO NOT MODIFY THEM.
REM
C:
CD C:\WINDOWS\DESKTOP
CALL COMMAND.COM
C:\WINDOWS\WIN.COM /WX

I will upload videos when I have time.

the next sound card I'm going to try is the Turtle Beach Malibu (Crystal CS4237B) which I recalled worked fine with Indy FoA

Pics somewhat related.

p1020090uq.jpg

p1020091m.jpg

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 2 of 28, by vmunix

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elianda wrote:

Do the games still bug if you disable the L1 and L2 cache in BIOS?

Haven't tried that, be here the problems are related to sound card issues, if I choose no-sound games run fine.

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 3 of 28, by F2bnp

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You know I have something similar, my copy of Dark Forces will not work with General Midi on my PCs (dosbox works fine obviously). I'll give it another try on my K6-3+ 550.

Reply 4 of 28, by h-a-l-9000

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Sound card routines can be CPU speed sensitive too.

1+1=10

Reply 5 of 28, by vmunix

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F2bnp wrote:

You know I have something similar, my copy of Dark Forces will not work with General Midi on my PCs (dosbox works fine obviously). I'll give it another try on my K6-3+ 550.

DF works perfectly in mine.
For the case of samnmax I'm starting to wonder whether I have a corrupted binary in the cd.

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 6 of 28, by 5u3

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I remember Sam and Max with General MIDI had the same problem on my K6-3 machine. It was CPU-speed related, reducing the clock speed fixed it.

Reply 7 of 28, by SquallStrife

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I play LucasArts games on my 486 box without issues. I second the suggestion that it's probably speed related. 😀

VogonsDrivers.com | Link | News Thread

Reply 8 of 28, by Mau1wurf1977

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I have done heaps of Super Socket 7 testing and two main things spring to mind:

1. Your CPU is WAY too fast. I recommend getting a non-MMX Pentium and using the 1.5 multiplier, 66 MHz FSB for a clock speed of 100 MHz.

The mobile version of K6 have PowerNow and you can set the multiplier in CONFIG.SYS through a driver.

Disabling L1 cache will get many games going, but not all of them.

2. You mention two PCI Sound cards. While they work fine for all the later DOS games, they are bad choices for old games from Sierra and Lucas Arts. A Sound Blaster card just works with these kind of games.

In general the older the DOS game, the less forgiving they are 😀

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
My YouTube channel

Reply 9 of 28, by vmunix

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:
I have done heaps of Super Socket 7 testing and two main things spring to mind: […]
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I have done heaps of Super Socket 7 testing and two main things spring to mind:

1. Your CPU is WAY too fast. I recommend getting a non-MMX Pentium and using the 1.5 multiplier, 66 MHz FSB for a clock speed of 100 MHz.

The mobile version of K6 have PowerNow and you can set the multiplier in CONFIG.SYS through a driver.

Disabling L1 cache will get many games going, but not all of them.

2. You mention two PCI Sound cards. While they work fine for all the later DOS games, they are bad choices for old games from Sierra and Lucas Arts. A Sound Blaster card just works with these kind of games.

In general the older the DOS game, the less forgiving they are 😀

I will try again with a P54 100Mhz or 75.
The thing is, I have a second rig with a Cyrix 686 @ 133Mhz , I tried all games with the Tropez Lite (crystal based) and they didn't work.

SquallStrife already told me he is using a 486 and a MT-32 so it's a different setup, but eventually I can try with a 486DLC I have lying around somewhere.
I will upload some videos next time.

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 11 of 28, by vmunix

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Off-topic question about your LCD monitor.

It seems to have a 4:3 mode (pixel mapping or aspect ratio correction). What model is it?

BX1930, the image is perfect 1:1 under windows 98 1024-768
and it's perfect also when I boot Suse automatically switches to 1360-768
I'm using D-Link KVM-121 with audio.

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 12 of 28, by fantasma

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The CPU is indeed fast for DOS games, but I think it's related to the drivers that come with the CD versions, I have had the same issues with Indy 4 and DOTT - only General Midi and no voice. The floppy version of Indy4 works fine though (it plays the adlib/sb soundtrack correctly), with no speed issues. I guess that floppy DOTT will also work.

My hardware is also similar: a SY-5EHM with a K6-2 450Mhz and a Yamaha OPL3-SAX (ISA).

Last edited by fantasma on 2013-05-02, 16:23. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 13 of 28, by vmunix

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elianda wrote:

Do the games still bug if you disable the L1 and L2 cache in BIOS?

Ok, I tried that and everything worked, now I have digital sound and General MIDI

So thank you everyone for their responses, all of you were right. What I did is to disable L1 and L2/L3 caches in the K6-III and not only they worked on the Yamaha OPL3 but also in my beloved Tropez+, it has a real YMF262 but also 4Mb of uncompressed wavetable + hardware based Yamaha effects processor and sampler, hell of a soundcard.

p1010034bn.th.jpg

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 15 of 28, by fillosaurus

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DOTT works without problems on my P2 366 laptop, SB FX&music in DOS mode, GM in Win98SE.

Y2K box: AMD Athlon K75 (second generation slot A)@700, ASUS K7M motherboard, 256 MB SDRAM, ATI Radeon 7500+2xVoodoo2 in SLI, SB Live! 5.1, VIA USB 2.0 PCI card, 40 GB Seagate HDD.
WIP: external midi module based on NEC wavetable (Yamaha clone)

Reply 16 of 28, by bjt

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I get hanging notes on scene transitions when using General Midi with Sam & Max (CD version). Happens even with L1 & L2 disabled, P233MMX with YMF718 & XR385.

No problems when playing through ScummVM. I think there must be an issue with the GM driver in the DOS version.

Reply 17 of 28, by vmunix

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fillosaurus wrote:

DOTT works without problems on my P2 366 laptop, SB FX&music in DOS mode, GM in Win98SE.

Yes, is it a little bit of hit&miss here, I had trouble with these games in a Cyrix 133Mhz PR166 which has a tiny 16kb cache, I will try again disabling it to see if that helps, as Mau1wurf1977 said it might help or not.

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 18 of 28, by jwt27

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If disabling cache makes your CPU too slow, you may want to try FDAPM:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/fre … dos/fdapm/2009/

Run it with FDAPM SPEEDx where x is a number between 0 and 8. 8 is full speed, and 0 will stop your CPU completely.
I use this to run Monkey Island and DOTT on a 615MHz PIII with no problems.

Reply 19 of 28, by vmunix

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jwt27 wrote:
If disabling cache makes your CPU too slow, you may want to try FDAPM: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/fre … dos/fdapm […]
Show full quote

If disabling cache makes your CPU too slow, you may want to try FDAPM:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/fre … dos/fdapm/2009/

Run it with FDAPM SPEEDx where x is a number between 0 and 8. 8 is full speed, and 0 will stop your CPU completely.
I use this to run Monkey Island and DOTT on a 615MHz PIII with no problems.

Disabling internal and external caches made S&M almost unplayable, so I enabled the external to improve it, unfortunately the game crashed and I think it's going to happen again so I might try fdapm. If that doesn't help I will try with slower CPUs.
So for a 450Mhz cpu what setting do you suggest on fdapm?

Trailing edge computing.