Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Getting old DOS games working. (DOSBox topics belong in DOSBox areas below, not here).

Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-5-31 @ 13:59

Hiya!

(this is a cross-post from the release thread on summvm forums , the thread there seems pretty much dead atm)

basically the patch for DOS completes fine and without any errors but when playing it I get random freezes. The music will still play in the background (lapc-i) and the cursor continues to flash as usual... but the controls are stuck and you have to reset the pc.

I am using my p1/200mmx 128MB machine with a LAPC-I and a SB16 with DOS7.1
Normal dos MIs run fine , as all other games I am playing. There is no IRQ conflicts or hardware faults, the system has been running playing old DOS games for 3+ years now...
What I have tried so far is:
a. Using an XMS environment with HIMEM
b. Using an EMS environment with EMM386
c. Using a ramdisk to consume ALL XMS/EMS above 16MB (actually leaving ~15MB free and ~610kb conventional , thought I give it a shot)
d. Using either ctmouse or original ms-mouse drivers (tried it since the cursor was getting stuck, another crazy thought)

atm I am out of ideas...

here are the game files I got after patch ran without any errors:

Image

anyone here faced this problem?
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-5-31 @ 18:42

been testing more... I noticed that with "monkey s" soundblaster sounds all wrong with static, horrible! Naturally I could not just use the 486+ update of the game (another exe basically) so I went to BIOS and disabled both L1+L2 caches.. I got a slow pc under 386DX , run the game, had OK sb sounds but it still just freezes after a while...

edit: also tried running under 98SE, same thing, freeze with -r1 and horrible static with -s :dead:
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2013-6-01 @ 00:35

That's disappointing...

Have you tried the talkie project which was linked on the previous page?

What you could do is zip it all up, put it on dropbox, and I test it on my machine (currently I only have 1.4 GHz Time-Machine though),

It's JUST for testing, I own the game multiple times :)
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-6-01 @ 07:59

^ yeah I've seen your posts on the scummvm forum Mau1wurf1977 , I'll pm you
I'll also make a video of the issue, maybe someone has an idea what's going on...

at this point since the game fails with SoundBlaster sounds I assume it's a driver problem or something... using a CT-2230 SB16 btw

here is a link to the video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKogPLwk618

edit: also tried without an autoexec/config, just mouse + sb16 init stuff, still the same problem
this is definitely a sb16 related problem IMHO since sb alone produces bad sound and the freeze always occurs between speech

edit2: tried with a 486/66 + CT1320B , it's OK... will try with the 8bit sb on the p1 machine
- no go, still the same corrupted sound
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-6-01 @ 18:21

made further tests, if I disable only L1 cache then the sb driver works. Still I get the freezing though.
I also put the sound buffers to 64 , I could delay the freezing but eventually I got the freeze again....
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2013-6-02 @ 01:34

I know that feeling of running into an issue and can't figuring it out :( Does Fate of Atlantis have a similar issue? I guess they use the same Sound Blaster driver.

Other things you could try:

In BIOS under PnP options, put IRQ5 or 7 (I recommend 7 for DOS games) and DMA 1 to ISA/Legacy.

Set the multiplier to 1.5 (so it's a 133 MHz CPU).

Check any ISA related BIOS options (Bus dividers).
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-6-02 @ 06:42

haven't tested Fate of Atlantis but DOTT CD version that runs flawlessly ... will give Fate a shot later and see how it behaves
Relevant DMA/IRQs are already set to ISA/Legacy, IIRC HOT-591p does not have any ISA divider options...
In all honesty I think it's the game's problem, maybe some bug in the upgrade patch or something that manifests in my system. Original Lucas adventures run fine as-is and never troubled me , like every other game I've thrown in there...
It seems the devs are hard to reach nowdays so I just hope to find a non-BIOS solution to fix this... failing that I'll simply delete the ultimate talkies.... they are truly impressive but not if they don't work on my system ;)
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-6-04 @ 12:37

Well, after testing with 3 different mobos that use the VIA MVP3 chipset I have concluded that the freezing occurs when one uses a PS2 mouse on the onboard ps2 connector!
With a serial mouse the game never freezes, no matter how hard I try or for how long I play.
With a ps2 mouse it's just a matter of spending some time clicking like hell on the sleeping pirates (thus you hear a piece of dialog that restarts on the next click without delay).

I have no idea if there is a workaround for that PS2 mouse problem, I can only assume that the game doesn't like the ps2 port's address/irq on MVP3 chipsets or it's general implementation...?
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2013-6-04 @ 13:02

Resource conflict maybe?

Sounds like a similar issue I had with my MPU401 card and it using IRQ2.
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-6-04 @ 13:42

I didn't have any roland equipment connected for the tests, just used SB for everything... different physical card but same 2230 model...
must be a bug after all... and I doubt it will get fixed any time soon
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2013-6-04 @ 13:59

Oh I know what you can try!

Another mouse driver.

I had a game, Turrican 2, that refused to run with the Logitech driver (CLOAK.EXE). CTMOUSE works fine. Give it a go...
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-6-04 @ 14:07

already tried that Mau1wurf1977 , ms mouse, ctmoue or even no mouse driver at all... once there is a ps2 mouse connected things go bad for me...

btw I get the same behavior running the talkies from 98SE :exclamation: , it could be a via thing :lol:
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-6-04 @ 17:48

had a reply from the author of the patches and I finally tested Fate of Atlantis CDROM version (like Mau1wurf1977 suggested also) and I get the same erratic behavior as well... the author himself had similar issues with his 200mmx p1 DOS machine...
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2013-6-06 @ 23:41

That's interesting. Fate of Atlantis should work well on that sort of machine.

It's a non-patched version rigth? With L1 disabled it should really just work.

A few things to test:

- Removing the LAPC-I

What IRQ is your Sound Blaster 16 set to? I always recommend going with IRQ7 for better compatibility with old games.

Can you disable your LPT ports in BIOS or via jumpers?

What resources does the PS/2 port take?
User avatar
Mau1wurf1977
l33t++
 
Posts: 7652
Joined: 2010-8-27 @ 04:15
Location: Western Australia

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2013-6-07 @ 06:30

When I tested it I applied the official patches. Did not really test the version on the retail cd-rom , I see the patches offered better sound drivers and updates exes for fast machines.
I did test with L1 disabled.
I will try later with my newly installed mpu401+cm-32L combo ...
SB16 takes the usual sb16 resources: irq5 , dma1/5, address220, mpu300 (330 is roland)
On BIOS I have assigned all relevant resources to LEGACY/ISA and LPT uses IRQ7. Will try disabling it but I doubt it will make a difference tbh as the game has a setup program and auto-detects the SB16. But you never know... ;)
IIRC ps2mouse takes IRQ12 , will have to check that
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2016-10-05 @ 10:01

I forgot to report that the freeze issue was found and was due to the mouse driver... using CTMOUSE v2.0a4 worked fine for me , read about it in the SQ4 CDROM hacking thread: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=440785#p440785
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby Marek » 2016-11-22 @ 14:15

keropi wrote:already tried that Mau1wurf1977 , ms mouse, ctmoue or even no mouse driver at all... once there is a ps2 mouse connected things go bad for me...

keropi wrote:I forgot to report that the freeze issue was found and was due to the mouse driver... using CTMOUSE v2.0a4 worked fine for me

How could another mouse driver fix a freeze issue which was there with no mouse driver at all? Is it possibly related to the IRQ you assign to the Soundblaster after all, in addition to the mouse driver maybe?
I'd like to add that information to my page. It should be based on some insights which can be reliably fixed by reasoning though, but not on wild guesses.
DOS-PC: DFI k6bv3+, Pentium 200mmx, 64 MB RAM, Terratec Maestro 32 sound card, Roland MT-32 + SC-155, Winner 2000 AVI 2MB, Voodoo 1, Win98SE
Windows PC: GigaByte GA-MA790GPT, Phenom II X4 905e, 12 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta 44, NVidia 1060 6 GB, Win7 pro x64
User avatar
Marek
Newbie
 
Posts: 61
Joined: 2007-5-25 @ 11:04

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby keropi » 2016-11-22 @ 14:31

No mouse driver BUT mouse connected, the info is right there after the message you made bold....
No idea why is this and I doubt anyone knows. CTMOUSE v2.0a4 works fine so all is left at that .
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 5646
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Freezing problem with both Monkey Island Ultimate talkie DOS

Postby blougaville » 2017-3-20 @ 05:48

Thank you for making these posts. I came here with the same problem and solved the freezing by using CTMOUSE v2.0a4!
blougaville
Newbie
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 2017-2-18 @ 03:52


Return to DOS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests