VOGONS


First post, by shock__

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Update: 3.9.2022
Gerbers are here:

[attachment=0]argus_final_shock__.zip[/attachment]

Documentation here:
[attachment=1]ARGUS_final_doc.zip[/attachment]

Have fun 😀 If you need AM78C201AKC chips, I have some listed on eBay Germany.
Looks like inline attachments are broken ... check the post, both files are there and can be downloaded.
Gerbers are at the bottom of the post, documentation in the middle.

Update 21.7.2022
Stock has been sold out, gerbers will be released within the next few weeks.
I also have some InterWave stock I'd love to part ways with.

Update 6.4.2022:
synoptic is now taking pre-orders for North and South America ... you can place orders on his website:
https://www.micronick.com/argus

Update 8.4.2022:
keropi is accepting pre-orders for Europe ... orderss can be placed here:
http://pcmidi.eu/argus.html[/color][/u][/i][/size]


Update 14.3.2022
No pre-orders and ooops ... I guess the "few months" have been almost/over a year again.

I'm currently meditating some alternative roadways since -i want to be honest there- this project has been a crawl since forever and I don't exactly see it take off any time soon - if someone wants to take over the production and logistics at a small margin (we'd define before hand) and can prove to be trustworthy I can see a run still happening, otherwise not so much. This is mostly what has been holding me back, this is certainly something I didn't see when I originally started to project, apart from minor personal things. I know it's a pretty crappy deal, tons of unpleasant work & responsibility, basically for free ... but a warm fuzzy feeling in your stomach that might be a one time chance to go into Gravis UltraSound history?

My current idea is to release the gerber files for production (with an explicit wish/silkscreen to remain financially accessible [instead of "non commercial"]) and sell off a larger quantity of the remaining stock I have and keep a limited amount for myself. Previous donors/supporters will have the option to have their remaining credit in InterWave ICs shipped (just shipping costs need to be covered) or get a 25% refund of their donation if they wish (afterall pretty much all of the donations has been used up and I made no money from this). Any input?

Also hoorj (I guess), this project got its' own video on LGR today.

Current status: This project is closed to previous donors for now - No exceptions, no need to ask via E-Mail/PM or the like.
A first batch of the final run has been produced and is being delivered. More batches/orders will follow within the next weeks/months. Keep watching the thread for updates - at worst you will be contacted (you won't lose your slots)

Update 25.01.2021
Documentation (partlist, component map, BOM, installation notes, useful programs, etc.) for the final run:

Filename
ARGUS_final_doc.zip
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204.16 KiB
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1269 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Original Post:

Just thinking at the moment ...

I have one of those lying in front of me ...
http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac307/grav … ig.jpg~original
Which can be made compatible to classic GUS cards according to gerwin's post here by adding 512kb of RAM in the intended solder footprint.
EC251 InterWave Audio Card
Might also be possible to easily boost it to 1MB.

AM78C201 & IW78C21M1 chips can still be bought as NOS from China.

Seeing how above card is a 2 layer board, it could be produced cheaply as well (~$20).

Considering GUS cards go for quite a bit these days ($80+ last time I checked) it might be possible for one to solder one's own card for maybe $30 (assuming the custom chips don't cost an arm and a leg from china).

As usual with my projects, I'd reverse the schematic, draw an example PCB layout and produce a prototype and release the files once the design is confirmed as working (I _hate_ distributing stuff) so basically anyone with soldering experience and patience to go through acquiring all parts could build his own card.

What's you guys' and gals' opinion on that?

EDIT: development blog here: ARGUS Project thread - Now with gerbers and documentation in initial post!

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    argus_final_shock__.zip
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Last edited by shock__ on 2022-09-12, 14:47. Edited 22 times in total.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

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Reply 1 of 3172, by Scali

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The original GF1 is no longer available I take it?
AMD's InterWave is nice, but I've heard people complain about compatibility issues. Apparently the playback rate is not 100% the same, which causes problems with long samples getting out of sync.
But still, InterWave is better than no GUS at all 😀
The GUS is by far the best soundcard for early-to-mid 90s demoscene stuff.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 2 of 3172, by shock__

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The GF1 and it's companion chip GF1D1 seem to be a lot harder to obtain and has the sample rate drop issue.
Wouldn't be a good start.

Going with the Interwave chip one could also add a SIMM-72 socket for easy 16MB RAM expansion.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

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Reply 3 of 3172, by elianda

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I think some more universal approach would work out better.
An ISA card where you have some CPU or DSP with some RAM that emulates a certain soundcard by firmware.
You could set the firmware and could have a GUS, SB16 some MIDI wavetable or maybe even everything at the same time on a single card.

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Reply 4 of 3172, by carlostex

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shock__ wrote:

The GF1 and it's companion chip GF1D1 seem to be a lot harder to obtain and has the sample rate drop issue.
Wouldn't be a good start.

Going with the Interwave chip one could also add a SIMM-72 socket for easy 16MB RAM expansion.

I don't know about GF1D1 but GF1 PLCC's seem to be readily available from various chinese suppliers. Eiter way i love GUS'es. I have a GUS PnP and since all the games i love work great with it i'd be interested in it. In fact i think GUS PnP's are a bit more silent than the classic and MAX Ultrasounds, probably due to simpler and more integrated circuit design.

Reply 6 of 3172, by carlostex

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Marmes wrote:

I know I am new at this, but I just reversed an amiga audio card. the prelude. 4 layers board. I coud reverse a gravis with some time 😀

Welcome to Vogons!

Reply 7 of 3172, by Scali

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elianda wrote:

I think some more universal approach would work out better.
An ISA card where you have some CPU or DSP with some RAM that emulates a certain soundcard by firmware.
You could set the firmware and could have a GUS, SB16 some MIDI wavetable or maybe even everything at the same time on a single card.

That would be great, but probably a lot more difficult to make.
As an alternative, I'd like to offer the idea of a GUS Extreme clone. The GUS Extreme has both the GF1 and an ESS AudioDrive chip for SB/opl3-compatibility.
If you would combine the InterWave with some sort of SB-compatible chip, you'd have a single card that would cover pretty much all DOS needs.
The SB-compatible chip will run all Adlib/SB stuff, and the InterWave will do GUS, native InterWave, and MT32/Sound Canvas.
If you would add a mixer with an extra PC speaker input (like some SB's have for example), you could even route PC speaker stuff through there (or you could use that magic hack that the PAS uses, to intercept the PC speaker from the ISA bus... however they do that).
Don't forget CD-rom audio inputs 😀

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 8 of 3172, by Scali

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carlostex wrote:

In fact i think GUS PnP's are a bit more silent than the classic and MAX Ultrasounds, probably due to simpler and more integrated circuit design.

That may have something to do with the board revision?
I have had some GUS MAX boards rev 1.8, and some rev 2.1. The 1.8 seemed a tad noisy, but 2.1 was quiet.
I didn't do an in-depth comparison with the GUS P&P Pro that I have, but I consider both cards extremely quiet.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 10 of 3172, by keropi

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welcome Marmes!

@shock__
as always I am interested in stuff like this , especially if I get to build it myself 😀

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Reply 11 of 3172, by Marmes

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keropi, it's good to see familiar users 😀. I wanted to make the prelude, but I guess that there isn't much interest. A gravis would be interesting. I will copy one, as soon as I get my hands on one 😀

Reply 12 of 3172, by keropi

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^ heh
yeah, soundcards on the amiga are not that popular...
still this GUS clone should be great, especially if it something like the ACE that is easily coupled with a sb or similar soundcard...

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 13 of 3172, by shock__

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Hehe ... funnily enough my first clone project was a 4-layer amiga/atari st/mac se board as well 😉

But yeah, personally I'd prefer a minimal GUS approach as well. SB cards are cheap these days and ESS chips may not be easy to obtain and aren't free of issues either.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

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Reply 14 of 3172, by Scali

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shock__ wrote:

But yeah, personally I'd prefer a minimal GUS approach as well. SB cards are cheap these days and ESS chips may not be easy to obtain and aren't free of issues either.

Well, it doesn't have to be an ESS per se. Just something that is SB-compatible. Having both on one card is nice.

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Reply 15 of 3172, by keropi

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^ nice but complicated. IMHO everyone that will use a GUS will also want at least SB16 compatibility or some 100% SBPRO deal: basically a real SB. Something like that is not so easy , unless I am wrong here.
With an ACE-like approach you can couple it with whatever SBish card you like without the need to set exotic irq/dma channels or evern bother to find a working combo. 😉

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 17 of 3172, by keropi

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but you can still disable all the extra sb emulation(s) , right?

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 18 of 3172, by shock__

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I think so ... never had a GUS Extreme myself.

As stated ... the PCA761AW would be a nice reference design ... GUS PnP compatible, can be made GUS classic compatible by adding RAM and adding up to 4 Banks of 4MB (each) of extra memory for soundfonts shouldn't be too hard.
And I have physical access to such a card.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

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Reply 19 of 3172, by idspispopd

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Scali wrote:
elianda wrote:

I think some more universal approach would work out better.
An ISA card where you have some CPU or DSP with some RAM that emulates a certain soundcard by firmware.
You could set the firmware and could have a GUS, SB16 some MIDI wavetable or maybe even everything at the same time on a single card.

That would be great, but probably a lot more difficult to make.

But then you'd only need one model so support different sound standards. I don't think it should be that difficult to build, but the programming would be a lot of work.
Maybe FPGA would be better that a CPU or DSP, but doesn't the first sound blaster just use a microcontroller for everything=

Scali wrote:

As an alternative, I'd like to offer the idea of a GUS Extreme clone. The GUS Extreme has both the GF1 and an ESS AudioDrive chip for SB/opl3-compatibility.
If you would combine the InterWave with some sort of SB-compatible chip, you'd have a single card that would cover pretty much all DOS needs.
The SB-compatible chip will run all Adlib/SB stuff, and the InterWave will do GUS, native InterWave, and MT32/Sound Canvas.

I understand the arguments against this. Most useful for mainboards with only one ISA slot.

Scali wrote:

If you would add a mixer with an extra PC speaker input (like some SB's have for example), you could even route PC speaker stuff through there (or you could use that magic hack that the PAS uses, to intercept the PC speaker from the ISA bus... however they do that).

I don't think the hack is very magical (but certainly not trivial), you only need to listen to writes to the relevant ports (0x61 keyboard controller, 0x42/0x43 PIT) and replicate the logic. Just like the Chameleon simulates the VIC-II of the C64 to generate a VGA output signal.