Reply 20 of 39, by candle_86
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It's posting @ 3.75ghz 250FSB @ 1.6V
It's posting @ 3.75ghz 250FSB @ 1.6V
Watch upping the Voltage to high on those Northwoods. Northwood Sudden Death Syndrome is/was a thing back in the day and there is a Wikipedia article on it.
Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1
yea I read up on that, I wont go over 1.6, anyway, air cooling is what I'm using.
wrote:wrote:IIRC, the Dell was actively trying to downclock the Prescott chip, almost as if it knew how crazy hot those things can get. Even if those systems worked properly with that Prescott chip, the performance just wouldn't match an equivalent Northwood chip.
No curse, nothing creepy, etc. Prescott supports SpeedStep and will clock itself down (like any modern CPU) when it isn't under heavy load, or to improve cooling if it's overheating. A lot of older thick-client SFF machines shipped with 478/939 CPUs that they really weren't equipped to cool (~90W+ TDP chips), so the CPU usually ends up pretty aggressively throttled when put under load. Dell and HP were probably the absolute worst about this ca. ~2004-2007, and I think it's mostly those machines that end up perpetuating the stereotype of Pentium 4 as "awful."
I was searching the web somewhat recently for info on CPU support on the Dell GX270. I remember seeing a couple separate discussions which seemed to indicate that the GX270 will downclock the bus when it detects Prescotts faster than 3.0GHz. It also gives the user a warning message at POST. I'm not sure if that only applies to the SFF model, or all of them. I haven't tested this myself because I don't have the chip to do so.
Meanwhile, MSI 875P overclockers widely reported their motherboards dying with Prescotts, a chip which was apparently not yet released at the time the boards were made (but it was advertised to support it). MSI reportedly disabled Prescott overclocking in later BIOSes.
On my own MSI 875P, it didn't kill itself (yet) but it was emanating an incredible amount of heat compared to a similar clocked Northwood. Way more than the TDP difference would have led me to expect.
My interpretation of all this is that perhaps the motherboard industry failed to anticipate the actual power consumption of Prescott chips, and many motherboard VRMs weren't able to handle it safely. Dell apparently recognized this and patched the BIOS to keep the VRM within safe limits. I don't know if Intel made a late change to the spec, or board makers were just careless, but it seems board makers were taken by surprise.
wrote:I was searching the web somewhat recently for info on CPU support on the Dell GX270. I remember seeing a couple separate discus […]
wrote:wrote:IIRC, the Dell was actively trying to downclock the Prescott chip, almost as if it knew how crazy hot those things can get. Even if those systems worked properly with that Prescott chip, the performance just wouldn't match an equivalent Northwood chip.
No curse, nothing creepy, etc. Prescott supports SpeedStep and will clock itself down (like any modern CPU) when it isn't under heavy load, or to improve cooling if it's overheating. A lot of older thick-client SFF machines shipped with 478/939 CPUs that they really weren't equipped to cool (~90W+ TDP chips), so the CPU usually ends up pretty aggressively throttled when put under load. Dell and HP were probably the absolute worst about this ca. ~2004-2007, and I think it's mostly those machines that end up perpetuating the stereotype of Pentium 4 as "awful."
I was searching the web somewhat recently for info on CPU support on the Dell GX270. I remember seeing a couple separate discussions which seemed to indicate that the GX270 will downclock the bus when it detects Prescotts faster than 3.0GHz. It also gives the user a warning message at POST. I'm not sure if that only applies to the SFF model, or all of them. I haven't tested this myself because I don't have the chip to do so.
Meanwhile, MSI 875P overclockers widely reported their motherboards dying with Prescotts, a chip which was apparently not yet released at the time the boards were made (but it was advertised to support it). MSI reportedly disabled Prescott overclocking in later BIOSes.
On my own MSI 875P, it didn't kill itself (yet) but it was emanating an incredible amount of heat compared to a similar clocked Northwood. Way more than the TDP difference would have led me to expect.My interpretation of all this is that perhaps the motherboard industry failed to anticipate the actual power consumption of Prescott chips, and many motherboard VRMs weren't able to handle it safely. Dell apparently recognized this and patched the BIOS to keep the VRM within safe limits. I don't know if Intel made a late change to the spec, or board makers were just careless, but it seems board makers were taken by surprise.
yea my Abit IC7 had a Prescott 3.2 in it, that did die suddenly, thats why I replaced it. It ideled at 56C and would load up to 79c. Now with this northwood at 3.6 1.60V stable i load at 63C 🤣
wrote:... My interpretation of all this is that perhaps the motherboard industry failed to anticipate the actual power consumption of Prescott chips, and many motherboard VRMs weren't able to handle it safely ...
Indeed, Preshott can trigger 'criticality excursions' on the unsinked VRMs/power MOSFETs of the day 😵 .
·····
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/displa … nn500af_11.html
Location of the VRMs on the ABIT IC7:
http://hwbot.org/competition/hoc_mar12/stage/ … reference_clock
Let the air flow!
In the first case wouldn't adding MOSFETs to the pads nearby (which seem to be shorted to the ones installed) kindda trivial and also help with the temperatures? (Sure, adding a heatsink afterwards would still be recommended).
wrote:... wouldn't adding MOSFETs to the pads nearby (which seem to be shorted to the ones installed) kindda trivial and also help with the temperatures? ...
Indeed!
·····
Let the air flow!
Nothing makes a manufacturer look more like an ass than when they depopulate MOSFETs, then have a problem with them melting down under stress.
Whoops.
What's the milk-like substance around IC7 socket?
How do you get the right mosfets? 😀 Is it safe? 😀
The IC7-G is a nice board but beware that the integrated gigabit Ethernet is buggy. You'll have to connect at 100 Mbps. Tx is OK but Rx at gigabit speeds will cause the computer to lock up. This is with board v1.1. I don't know if the problem was fixed in later revisions.
Edit: see the following:
http://discuss.extremetech.com/forums/4/37509 … ShowThread.aspx
https://lkml.org/lkml/2006/2/19/163
https://web.archive.org/web/20070702205315/ht … ead.php?t=18707
Account retired. Now posting as Errius.
wrote:The IC7-G is a nice board but beware that the integrated gigabit Ethernet is buggy. You'll have to connect at 100 Mbps. Tx is OK but Rx at gigabit speeds will cause the computer to lock up. This is with board v1.1. I don't know if the problem was fixed in later revisions.
I've done alot of file transfers with it, no issues at all.
wrote:What's the milk-like substance around IC7 socket?
It looks like dielectric grease or something similar - most likely that machine was being prepped for cryogenic cooling (like LN2) and the grease prevents condensation from forming on the board.
wrote:The IC7-G is a nice board but beware that the integrated gigabit Ethernet is buggy.
Interesting. I wonder if it is a problem with the LAN itself, or just with the Abit implementation. I'll have to try with my P4C800-E one of these days...
https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys
It's an ABIT problem. I have the P4C800-E as well and it works flawlessly. However it doesn't support 2 floppy drives, so instead of one annoyance you have another.
Account retired. Now posting as Errius.
Well, that depends on your needs. 😀 I can barely find any justification for one floppy drive on a P4 system that supports USB2.0 and Gigabit LAN. Much less two. 😉
https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys
True but I really wanted two floppy drives on this computer, which is why I'm still using the ABIT (bug and all) and the Asus is in storage.
Account retired. Now posting as Errius.
Well I transfered 230gb over that nic the other day, no issues at all, plus streamed media between the computers, need data on a bluray 50gb disk in main machine on my P4 no issues at all.
well good news a local guy that I buy stuff from often just ran across a P4 3.2 Northwood and asked if I wanted it, so yay my 3.0 is upgraded to a 3.2 🤣