VOGONS


First post, by brassicGamer

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This one's actually a long story. The short version is that I'm re-housing dual PIII ready server. Skip the next paragraph if you don't want the background.

I originally inherited a Dell PowerEdge 500SC from my job at the time (circa 2003) and was using it as a file server. IIRC it was a PIII 866MHz and, while it was a noisy beast, it worked perfectly for years. At some point around 2005 I migrated it all to an original G4 Apple Mac mini (subsequently replaced by an i5 model in 2011). I think the logic was to do with power consumption and the fact the Mac was on 24/7 anyways. I eventually got sick of OS X not playing nice with Windows clients, plus random shutdowns and lack of internal storage (didn't want to spend money on installing an additional drive). So I set up a new system last year specifically for serving files. Looked at what gear I had lying around and settled on an ASUS board (P5GC-MX/1333) with a 2.66Ghz Celeron D, 1GB RAM, etc. and an appropriate case (i.e. one with many drive bays). But I was running Windows 2003 Server and, while serving the files worked like a charm, actually using the machine sucked because some of the hardware wasn't recognised by the aged software, etc., etc. Yes, I could have used something like FreeNAS but I wanted Windows Deployment Services for the many XP and Windows 7 builds I do on a regular basis for myself and others, plus many other features such as enterprise-level backup software, etc.

So when I unexpectedly acquired the SMP server, I suppressed the desire to preserve the system and instead decided it was accidentally my perfect server solution and I decided to put it to use. This, combined with W2K3 Server, is the perfect blend of software and hardware.

The original system is an HP tc3100. It came with:

1x PIII-S 1.4GHz
2x 512MB ECC 133MHz SDRAM
2x 9GB SCSI 10K RPM Seagate Cheetahs
1x HP Tape Drive

I stripped the components out of the behemoth case and put the case into storage (in case I wish to retire or restore the system at a later date). Here's the components as they will comprise the new incarnation. These are all parts I already had in use or in storage, except for one item:

6s6Aaefl.jpg

The motherboard. It's a modified ASUS TR-DLS (Link to manual), and is missing a few of the headers on the board e.g. the primary IDE channel, a front case fan header, etc. - stuff HP decided they didn't need and got ASUS to omit for the OEM version. It has built-in Rage XL graphics, which will do. The board was pretty clean and the caps look great.

6MrBY7hl.jpg

The CPUs. The one on the left came with the board, and the other is one I found on eBay months ago. I was advised that I wouldn't be able to used mixed steppings with Windows, but subsequently discovered that, provided the speed and cache matched, and that the older stepping was the bootstrapping CPU, it would work.

QZcNvutl.jpg

RAM and expansion cards. This is the RAM that came with the board, as I have no other ECC parity parts. Lucky it's 1GB - might try and track some more down. Purchased the PCI-X SATA card specifically for this project (the only thing I didn't already have). Just bought whatever I could find on eBay at the time rather than do any in-depth research. IMHO you can't go far wrong with Adaptec where drivers are concerned, certainly. I am yet to measure performance, but I would be interested in doing a comparison between a) SATA b) SCSI with caching controller c) SCSI with built in controller d) EIDE. The second SCSI card was going to interface with the tape drive, but I found a SCSI-2 to SCSI adaptor so I'm using the built-in SCSI.

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Internal storage. 500GB boot drive, 2x 1TB drives to hold all the files. I've been intending to set up RAID 5 for a while now (or RAID 0+1 if I can get 4x drives for the same price as 3) but for now the data is split across two partitions. No way I'm striping.

51Boyrtl.jpg

External storage. Bezel-less LS-120 taken from an external parallel-port unit (goes with the case, luckily), the DDS3 tape drive that came with the tc3100 (still testing this - might need to be replaced), the optical drive was chosen based on the diversity of formats it supports (required me inventorying all my optical drives first) and memory card reader. This will connect to the single USB header on the motherboard.

gW0aQHwl.jpg

The only case I have with 4x drive bays. Actually it has 5, so I can leave space between each drive. I have fitted a silent fan to the front of the case blowing in and the larger of the two at the back, sucking out. I also managed to find two almost-matching heatsinks and then tested all the fans I've got to find the quietest ones. As a result, this machine is near-silent, despite the 4 fans.

The hefty Delta PSU that came with the original machine probably would have done the job, but I went with a newer HIPRO unit instead - more amps on the 12V rail, plus SATA power (not that I don't have enough adaptors).

MYK84p3l.jpg

The assembled system. I need to buy some actual cable ties to finish it off, but the airflow is what's most important. I'm annoyed about the cable for the media card reader going over the CPU fan but it's not obstructing the blades themselves. I need cable ties to hold the ATX power bundle out of the way.

KBc9cq3l.jpg

All configured and ready to go. Now to install Windows 2003 Server, maybe do some benchmarks.

Last edited by brassicGamer on 2016-07-30, 14:55. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 1 of 13, by Errius

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That's cute. I didn't know you could mix and match CPUs that way.

I've attached a picture of my similar setup from back in the day. (I used the remote console feature of the Remote Management Card to capture the screenshot.)

Is this too much voodoo?

Reply 2 of 13, by chinny22

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I was thinking of using my Prolient Duel P3 600 for the same thing. Currently its my "archive server" basically I fire it up and copy all my important files to it from time to time. Only I've run out of space and its already maxed out with 5x 300GB drives so looking for a new excuse to keep it in use.

But I was thinking of messing round with some kind of PXE server for DOS and Win9x images as well, You played round with that before?
You actually going to use the tape drive. Got a few different ones and sometimes think about backing up to tape but really cant see me actually using them due to capacity and cost.

Reply 3 of 13, by Errius

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Backups are a problem once you start to accumulate large amounts of stuff. I've always used optical disks since they're cheap and reliable, but you need so many that it becomes an annoyance to store them. People recommend USB hard drives, but they make me nervous - drop one and all your data is gone. Tape would be ideal, except for the cost. Cheap tapes are too small to be useful and large ones too expensive to be affordable.

Is this too much voodoo?

Reply 4 of 13, by brassicGamer

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chinny22 wrote:

But I was thinking of messing round with some kind of PXE server for DOS and Win9x images as well, You played round with that before?

Yeah I have for XP but not older or newer OSes. PXE works really well for dropping a pre-built image onto a computer or group of computers. While I've tended to use Ghost or Clonezilla in the past for individual machines, if you're dealing with a Windows environment it's better to have a non hardware-specific imaging system to reduce the labour. Takes a bit longer to set up but pays off in the end.

Remote Installation Services, that come with 2003, are great for <= XP. They changed it to Windows Deployment Services for 2008, which you can install on 2003, but it messes up how it used to work. I don't do enough Win7 imaging to justify it.

chinny22 wrote:

You actually going to use the tape drive. Got a few different ones and sometimes think about backing up to tape but really cant see me actually using them due to capacity and cost.

If I can get it working reliably. At the moment I'm unable to restore files I backed up a decade ago, and I'm unable to tell if it's the drive or the media. I don't have another drive that works so I guess I'll have to do a test backup to find out.

Errius wrote:

Backups are a problem once you start to accumulate large amounts of stuff. I've always used optical disks since they're cheap and reliable, but you need so many that it becomes an annoyance to store them. People recommend USB hard drives, but they make me nervous - drop one and all your data is gone. Tape would be ideal, except for the cost. Cheap tapes are too small to be useful and large ones too expensive to be affordable.

Yeah DLT would be the perfect solution but like you say, expensive. I have accumulated enough DDS3 media to back everything up, and once I've done the first run the increments will be minimal. My file system is a bit of a mess though so it's worth me tidying up that first and getting rid of redundant data. That's why I was considering setting up FTP recently as well. Two birds: one stone. I would never use flash. When my previous tape drive broke I used optical media but the capacity sucks for archiving things like CD images / console ROMs, etc. Also not fit for the purpose of incremental backups unless I use DVD-RAM.

Most of my irreplaceable data (e.g. photos) are on the cloud. Twice. Plus an external HD.

Check out my blog and YouTube channel for thoughts, articles, system profiles, and tips.

Reply 5 of 13, by Errius

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I see a DDS-3 tape can store 12-24 GB, which is equivalent to an optical disk.

Is this too much voodoo?

Reply 6 of 13, by brassicGamer

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Depends. If we're talking about media that most people have readily-available to them then DL DVD is 9GB.

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Reply 7 of 13, by Tetrium

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May I ask how you handled the drivers of your motherboard? I have a couple ASUS boards which look similar (only support up to Coppermine though), but have no experience with this chipset or with PCI-X, so to me any advice will be a useful one 😀

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Reply 8 of 13, by JTD121

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Just want to point out that PCI-X looks to be SATA, not SCSI?

Otherwise, neat build! For further future stuff, you could look at some of the small NAS appliances? Netgear, Synology, QNAP, etc

Reply 9 of 13, by brassicGamer

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JTD121 wrote:

Just want to point out that PCI-X looks to be SATA, not SCSI?

Otherwise, neat build! For further future stuff, you could look at some of the small NAS appliances? Netgear, Synology, QNAP, etc

Fixed! Didn't even noticed that one. It actually came with a really nice PCI-X SCSI host. I did have a small NAS I inherited from someone else that I was going to repair but no joy unfortunately. I like cobbling things together.

Check out my blog and YouTube channel for thoughts, articles, system profiles, and tips.

Reply 10 of 13, by brassicGamer

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Tetrium wrote:

May I ask how you handled the drivers of your motherboard? I have a couple ASUS boards which look similar (only support up to Coppermine though), but have no experience with this chipset or with PCI-X, so to me any advice will be a useful one 😀

Looks like all the hardware is supported by Win2K and Win2K3 Server. All I had to do was download the driver for the hard disk controller so that setup would recognise it. I might also try a 98 install to see if that works.

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Reply 11 of 13, by Errius

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Note that HP have a nasty habit of pulling old drivers/manuals off their website. The 1990s stuff has already gone. This machine is from 2000 so you should get everything now you think you may need in future.

Is this too much voodoo?

Reply 12 of 13, by chinny22

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Errius wrote:

Note that HP have a nasty habit of pulling old drivers/manuals off their website. The 1990s stuff has already gone. This machine is from 2000 so you should get everything now you think you may need in future.

For enterprise stuff you can still fine a lot hiding on the FTP server, Takes a bit of digging and finding what SP number your after though
ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub

Reply 13 of 13, by Errius

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Yeah, that's a chore. The website has/had it all neatly organized by model/OS which was so much nicer. Dell still support their old 1990s gear like this, it's a shame HP don't do the same.

Is this too much voodoo?