DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

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DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby Stiletto » 2016-8-01 @ 17:00

A passing comment from R. Belmont of MAMEdev team:

"also, (at least) one of the dosbox fork(s) apparently has FM that blows MAME's away ... but I forget where I saw it"

anyone? :)
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby leileilol » 2016-8-01 @ 22:02

probably oplemu compat in mainline dosbox. The only recent more accurate FM emulator i know of is khokh2001's nuked opl3 fm and that hasn't been backported to dosbox AFAIK.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby KainXVIII » 2016-8-01 @ 22:23

leileilol wrote:The only recent more accurate FM emulator i know of is khokh2001's nuked opl3 fm and that hasn't been backported to dosbox AFAIK.

Interesting, does it have standalone installer (like Munt) or you need somehow compile it yourself?
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby keenmaster486 » 2016-8-02 @ 03:15

I've found "fast" OPL3 emulation to sound more like the original, that is, when you set all the frequencies to 49716 Hz.
I flermmed the plootash just like you asked.
Very silly indeed: https://audaxeundum.wordpress.com
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby leileilol » 2016-8-02 @ 04:05

fast sounding better than compat is placebo effect at that point. It won't sound better in CyberSphere.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby Stretch » 2016-8-12 @ 12:20

Win98SE - Intel SE440BX-2 - Pentium II 233 Mhz - 256 MB System Ram - Voodoo 3 1000 AGP - Yamaha YMF-724 PCI - Soundblaster 32 ISA
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby Stiletto » 2016-8-12 @ 16:11

Stretch wrote:Must be this one
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=49327


R. Belmont made his comment _before_ that thread was posted. But that poster had made his emulator before he made his DOSBox patch. So I'm not really sure.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby James-F » 2016-8-12 @ 16:24

It sounds the same to me.

Maybe nukeykt (khokh2001) the author of Nuked OPL could chime in and explain the difference to Dosbox OPL?
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby James-F » 2016-8-13 @ 04:53

They sound absolutely identical to me.
I'm not an expert but I've read that the OPL3 has only 8 basic waveforms to emulate, and I think dosbox does an excellent job.
How more accurate simple sinewave sawtooth or squarewave can be ??

Anyway, here are a quick comparison between Nuked OPL and Dosbox OPL:
Attachments
Nuked 2.mp3
(842.04 KiB) Downloaded 84 times
Nuked 1.mp3
(844.08 KiB) Downloaded 74 times
Dosbox 2.mp3
(838.77 KiB) Downloaded 66 times
Dosbox 1.mp3
(840.81 KiB) Downloaded 69 times
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby nukeykt » 2016-8-15 @ 08:53

Here's comparison between four opl3 emulators: Nuked OPL3, DOSBox fast OPL3, DOSBox compat OPL3, MAME/MESS OPL3. Unfortunately i can't record real OPL3. So I also uploaded original midi file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4b8bir5gyy6q1 ... 0.MID?dl=0
Attachments
lion10-mameopl3.mp3
MAME/MESS OPL3
(2.13 MiB) Downloaded 73 times
lion10-dbcompat.mp3
DOSBox compat OPL3
(2.11 MiB) Downloaded 66 times
lion10-dbfast.mp3
DOSBox default,fast OPL3
(2.18 MiB) Downloaded 58 times
lion10-nukedopl3.mp3
Nuked OPL3
(2.13 MiB) Downloaded 78 times
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby James-F » 2016-8-15 @ 14:16

Interesting.

Dosbox-Fast sounds closer to Nuked-OPL, but has lower pitch "kick drum".
Dosbox-Compat is muddy and distorted.... are you sure you did not mix the names of Compat and Fast?
MAME is less distorted than Dosbox-Compat but still not as clean as Dosbox-Fast or Nuked.

What game is it from so I can record a real OPL-SA3 for comparison.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby nukeykt » 2016-8-15 @ 14:28

No. This is case where compat loses to fast emu. This music is from Lion King port to Windows 95. BTW I just recorded sample from ymf718 myself.
Attachments
lion10-ymf718.mp3
YMF718 OPL3.
(2.11 MiB) Downloaded 60 times
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby James-F » 2016-8-15 @ 14:40

A horrible recording (there is some strange effect), but pitch-wise Nuked sounds the closest.
Yet, Dosbox-Fast is not bad at all.

Any examples where dosbox-Fast is less accurate than Compat?
I've been under the impression that Compat is MORE accurate than Fast... where clearly it is not so in this example.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby Scali » 2016-8-15 @ 14:48

James-F wrote:A horrible recording


Using mp3 is not a good idea for this. Regular WAV or FLAC would be better for comparison.
Now you can't tell whether the distortion is caused by inaccurate emulation, or if it is aliasing from the mp3 codec used.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby James-F » 2016-8-15 @ 14:53

No no, there is something wrong with the recording itself of the YMF718, not with the WAV to MP3 conversion.
The MP3s are 320kbps, I doubt anyone could hear the difference (another topic altogether).

Ignoring the bad recording and concentrating on the Pitch and Sound accuracy, Nuked OPL is a perfect match.
Dosbox-Compat is absolutely horrendous here, and I thought is was the most accurate... keenmaster486 was right.

EDIT:
I just noticed there is a MID file of the song.
I will record my YMF719 and be back.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby nukeykt » 2016-8-15 @ 15:15

James-F wrote:Any examples where dosbox-Fast is less accurate than Compat?

Yes. Now i'm recording song where DOSBox fast and MAME sound inaccurate, but DOSBox compat and Nuked OPL are good.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby nukeykt » 2016-8-15 @ 15:28

Ok. I've recorded. YMF718 applies "3D" effect to sound. But i don't know how to disable it.
This song is from Disney's Aladdin port to Windows.
Attachments
arrock1-ymf718.mp3
YMF718 OPL3
(2.81 MiB) Downloaded 63 times
arrock1-nukedopl3.mp3
Nuked OPL3
(2.85 MiB) Downloaded 73 times
arrock1-mameopl3.mp3
MAME/MESS OPL3
(2.85 MiB) Downloaded 44 times
arrock1-dbfastopl3.mp3
DOSBox default, fast OPL3
(2.84 MiB) Downloaded 47 times
arrock1-dbcompatopl3.mp3
DOSBox compat OPL3
(2.88 MiB) Downloaded 47 times
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby James-F » 2016-8-15 @ 15:35

nukeykt wrote:Ok. I've recorded. YMF718 applies "3D" effect to sound. But i don't know how to disable it.

Open windows Volume Control and simply mute "3D WIDE", at least it is how it's on Windows 98.
I you don't see it, enable it in Options->Preference.
If you can please replace your YMF718 recordings without "3D WIDE".

I attached the first Lion track from YMF719.
Attachments
Lion YMF719.mp3
V3
(2.13 MiB) Downloaded 43 times
Last edited by James-F on 2016-8-17 @ 16:37, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby James-F » 2016-8-15 @ 15:42

This song is from Disney's Aladdin port to Windows.


I can't find a time where they sound different.
What second?
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Re: DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Postby nukeykt » 2016-8-15 @ 15:46

James-F wrote:I can't find a time where they sound different.

Listen to Saw wave, which plays all time. In DOSBox fast and MAME it is less modulated.
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