Check out umbpci under this guide: http://www.mdgx.com/umb.htm

Freedos's udvd driver and uide cache manager:
http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/udvd.htm

And a nice canned config.sys and autoexec: http://www.mdgx.com/mem6.htm

The ~40K of MSDOS is indeed your problem, it's big and all in conventional.
-remove NOAUTO from your DOS=HIGH,UMB line. That should load a part of MDSOS in upper
-your BUFFERS=40 line increases MSDOS allocation by a whopping 10K !!!

Thansk Konc -- that was a quick fix.

Krcroft, I looked into that guide and will try out UMBPCI -- it seems appealing to me because I'd like to try to use SMARTDRV since ARENA has to constantly read from the CD during play However UMBPCI can't replace EMM386 for me since I still need the EMS.

Good catch, it looks like you still need emm386, but you load it after umbpci.

Search for 'If you DO need EMS' on this page.
http://www.mdgx.com/umb.htm
He provides the relevant chunk of config.sys.

As for logging all of autoexec.bat, probably not - however you could redirect relevant commands one at a time inside autoexec. For example:

Command1 > c:\logs\command1.log

infiniteclouds wrote:

it seems appealing to me because I'd like to try to use SMARTDRV since ARENA has to constantly read from the CD during play.

If you have enough hard drive space, and if Arena doesn't use CD-audio, then you can make a BIN/CUE of the CD and use SHSUCDHD.

(I wonder why MDGX is still using MSCDEX when SHSUCDEX uses much less RAM?)

krcroft wrote:

Good catch, it looks like you still need emm386, but you load it after umbpci. […]
Show full quote

Good catch, it looks like you still need emm386, but you load it after umbpci.

Search for 'If you DO need EMS' on this page.
http://www.mdgx.com/umb.htm
He provides the relevant chunk of config.sys.

As for logging all of autoexec.bat, probably not - however you could redirect relevant commands one at a time inside autoexec. For example:

Command1 > c:\logs\command1.log

.. it's pretty confusing. I basically copied the

DEVICE=C:\UMBPCI\UMBPCI.SYS /I=D800-EFFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE X=D800-EFFF X=B800-C7FF I=C800-D7FF I=B000-B7FF RAM M3 D=256 AUTO

lines out of there and stuck them in my config -- directly after HIMEM.SYS. The guide states, however that EMM386 has to go directly after UMBPCI.SYS... but then also states that LOWDMA.SYS needs to directly follow UMBPCI.SYS... so I'm not sure which.

Jorpho wrote:

infiniteclouds wrote:

it seems appealing to me because I'd like to try to use SMARTDRV since ARENA has to constantly read from the CD during play.

If you have enough hard drive space, and if Arena doesn't use CD-audio, then you can make a BIN/CUE of the CD and use SHSUCDHD.

(I wonder why MDGX is still using MSCDEX when SHSUCDEX uses much less RAM?)

This would be great especially since the loading time has become so much worse since lowering the BUFFERS= line in config.sys -- I'll look into SHSUCDHD -- I was under the impression that there was no 'virtual CD' program that worked for DOS.

infiniteclouds wrote:

lines out of there and stuck them in my config -- directly after HIMEM.SYS. The guide states, however that EMM386 has to go directly after UMBPCI.SYS... but then also states that LOWDMA.SYS needs to directly follow UMBPCI.SYS... so I'm not sure which.

I think the important part is that LOWDMA.SYS needs to be loaded before SMARTDRV.

Jorpho wrote:

I was under the impression that there was no 'virtual CD' program that worked for DOS.

The pivotal distinction is that SHSUCDHD cannot be used for games that require CD audio; that would be quite impossible outside of a proper multitasking environment.

I must be doing something wrong because my access/load times in Arena are noticeably longer than before I did any tinkering from my original config/autoexec which didn't even have smartdrv going -- I'll post my updated exec/config later after I experiment some more.

What does your MSDOS module size look like in memory right now after NOAUTO has been removed?

I haven't done menus in CONFIG.SYS before, but I don't think this one is built properly. In order for DOS to load HIGH,UMB, HIMEM must already be loaded. The common section is going to execute DOS=HIGH,UMB prior to HIMEM.SYS - heck, prior to anything. MSDOS should only take up somewhere around 9k-13k conventional.

Also - Why do you need so many configurations? I could see a case for EMS vs NOEMS. However, with mouse and CDROM sys file loaded into UMB, they are out of the way of conventional memory and rather harmless. Even MSCDEX is loaded into UMB.

I don't know why Windows needs "CALL C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM." in there. That is just chewing up more memory. Do you normally boot Windows or DOS?

CkRtech wrote:

In order for DOS to load HIGH,UMB, HIMEM must already be loaded.

I was about to propose OP to move his DOS= line below HIMEM & EMM386, but I tried it beforehand and it just works as-is. My whole life was also a lie 🤣 But this applies for DOS 7.1, maybe what we remember was indeed required for 6.22. And now I have to check and clarify this!

If DOS is loaded HIGH,UMB properly, I don't think his MSDOS allocation should be anywhere near 37K. Even if BUFFERS adds 10K to MSDOS (Does it really do that?), 27K is still way too high if DOS is HIGH,UMB. I would probably just omit or significantly lower BUFFERS if SMARTDRV is going to be used.

It makes sense that with DOS 7.1 you don't need to load HIMEM.SYS before DOS=HIGH,UMB, because in the automatic setting, it will already load HIMEM.SYS by default.

Also, with DOS 7.1 you should be able to use BUFFERSHIGH / FILESHIGH / LASTDRIVEHIGH, but according to the documentation, using DOS=AUTO (or just not using DOS=NOAUTO) already takes care of that.

So I think the DOS=NOAUTO is actually your biggest problem. Remove it. And you don't need UMBPCI. My configuration is quite similar to yours + Smartdrive, and I get ~620K of free conventional memory with the Config/Autoexec below:

CONFIG.SYS

DOS=HIGH,UMB DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOSW\HIMEM.SYS DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOSW\EMM386.EXE RAM I=B400-B7FF I=CA00-CBFF AUTO BUFFERS=20 FILES=60 LAS […]
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DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOSW\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOSW\EMM386.EXE RAM I=B400-B7FF I=CA00-CBFF AUTO
BUFFERS=20
FILES=60
LASTDRIVE=Z
STACKS=9,128
BREAK=ON
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM /E:512 /P
DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\VIDECDD.SYS /D:IDECDROM

AUTOEXEC.BAT

@ECHO OFF LH C:\DOSW\MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDECDROM /E LH C:\DOSW\SMARTDRV.EXE /X /B:1024 LH C:\DOSW\DOSKEY.COM /INSERT LH C:\MOUSE\CTMO […]
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@ECHO OFF
LH C:\DOSW\MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDECDROM /E
LH C:\DOSW\SMARTDRV.EXE /X /B:1024
LH C:\DOSW\DOSKEY.COM /INSERT
LH C:\MOUSE\CTMOUSE.EXE /R33 /3
SET COMSPEC=C:\COMMAND.COM
SET COPYCMD=/-Y
SET DIRCMD=/P/O:GEN/A
SET PATH=C:\BATCH;C:\DOSW;G:\WINDOWS;G:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\NC5;C:\NAV;C:\XTG;C:\CDROM;C:\PV;C:\ARCHIVE;C:\MOUSE;C:\DOSUTIL;C:\SB;C:\NETDRV
SET PROMPT=$P$G
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET SOUND=C:\SB
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
C:\SB\CTCME.EXE
C:\SB\AWEUTIL.COM /S
C:\SB\MIXERSET.EXE /P /Q
C:\DOSUTIL\FASTKEYS.COM
C:
CD\
CLS

Note the extra I= switches after EMM386. They provide a lot of extra memory blocks, but may cause incompatibility with certain games. If you do not need Smartdrive (~30K) and Doskey (~8K I think), you may be fine without them.

CkRtech wrote:

If DOS is loaded HIGH,UMB properly, I don't think his MSDOS allocation should be anywhere near 37K. Even if BUFFERS adds 10K to MSDOS (Does it really do that?), 27K is still way too high if DOS is HIGH,UMB. I would probably just omit or significantly lower BUFFERS if SMARTDRV is going to be used.

Loading DOS high is solved, in my first post I suggested removing NOAUTO which loads everything >10KB in upper. How much MSDOS weights has nothing to do with DOS being "properly loaded high", but what is added to its allocation like files/buffers/stacks/lastdrive/display.sys etc. Actually you don't even care as long as all the rest are in upper. Play around with some values if you want, I was surprised as well that large values for buffers add so much.

dr_st wrote:

It makes sense that with DOS 7.1 you don't need to load HIMEM.SYS before DOS=HIGH,UMB, because in the automatic setting, it will already load HIMEM.SYS by default.

Exactly, the AUTO/NOAUTO is missing from 6.22 which is why the order matters.

I must have picked it up the habit at some point earlier - MSDOS 5, maybe? It has been awhile!

As for the "properly loaded take" - My concern was more for the UMB part of the line rather than the HIGH part of it. So the conventional memory weight of MSDOS does matter if you don't get the rest into UMB. I haven't used NOAUTO and just continued explicitly after Windows 9x came out.

Fun stuff. Thanks for elaborating on it a bit.

For the OP - Personally, I would take out the lines that Windows added to get rid of that extra COMMAND that is hogging conventional as well.

I made some changes -- MSDOS doesn't even show in my memory list anymore but instead shows as "SYSTEM" .. I GUESS this is the same? Not sure why this happened.

Here's my new MEM read-out:

Name Total Conventional Upper Memory -------- ---------------- ---------------- --------------- […]
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Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
SYSTEM 29,264 (29K) 10,640 (10K) 18,624 (18K)
HIMEM 1,168 (1K) 1,168 (1K) 0 (0K)
UMBPCI 176 (0K) 176 (0K) 0 (0K)
EMM386 4,320 (4K) 4,320 (4K) 0 (0K)
LOWDMA 688 (1K) 688 (1K) 0 (0K)
DBLBUFF 2,976 (3K) 2,976 (3K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 10,144 (10K) 0 (0K) 10,144 (10K)
CTMOUSE 3,328 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,328 (3K)
COMMAND 6,976 (7K) 0 (0K) 6,976 (7K)
VIDECDD 5,024 (5K) 0 (0K) 5,024 (5K)
IFSHLP 2,864 (3K) 0 (0K) 2,864 (3K)
SOFTMPU 8,496 (8K) 0 (0K) 8,496 (8K)
MSCDEX 28,032 (27K) 0 (0K) 28,032 (27K)
Free 677,232 (661K) 635,200 (620K) 42,032 (41K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 655,360 20,160 635,200
Upper 125,520 83,488 42,032
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS)* 132,978,096 775,600 132,202,496
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 133,758,976 879,248 132,879,728

Total under 1 MB 780,880 103,648 677,232

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (32M)
Free Expanded (EMS)* 33,554,432 (32M)

* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

Largest executable program size 635,184 (620K)
Largest free upper memory block 35,296 (34K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

Sorry about the format -- I copied it straight out of a .txt dump and the spacing looks fine in the preview.

Assuming SYSTEM = MSDOS it's only taking 10K now.

My AUTOEXEC

@ECHO OFF SET BLASTER=A240 I5 D0 H6 P330 E640 T6 SET SOUND=C:\SB16 LH C:\SB16\CTCM LH C:\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S LH C:\SB16\MIXERSET /P […]
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@ECHO OFF
SET BLASTER=A240 I5 D0 H6 P330 E640 T6
SET SOUND=C:\SB16
LH C:\SB16\CTCM
LH C:\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
LH C:\SB16\MIXERSET /P
LH C:\SB16\AWEUTIL /S
LH C:\SOFTMPU\SOFTMPU.EXE /SB:240 /IRQ:5 /MPU:330
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 T4

GoTo %config%
:EMC
:XMC
:CMC
LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:OPTICAL
:EM
:XM
:CM
LH C:\DRIVERS\CTMOUSE.EXE /R2
:E
😦
:C
IF EXIST C:\WINDOWS\DOSSTART.BAT CALL C:\WINDOWS\DOSSTART.BAT
REM
REM The following lines have been created by Windows. Do not modify them.
REM
C:
CD C:\
CALL C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM
C:\WINDOWS\WIN.COM /WX

((note: the first SET BLASTER= is for my AWE64 and the 2nd is for my SBP2.0 and putting the 2nd SET BLASTER helps with some games which throw an error when H= P= and E= values are included in the line))
and CONFIG

DOS=SINGLE [COMMON] DOS=HIGH,UMB FILES=60 BUFFERS=20 LASTDRIVE=H […]
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DOS=SINGLE
[COMMON]
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FILES=60
BUFFERS=20
LASTDRIVE=H

[menu]
menuitem=EMC, Expanded memory + Mouse + CD-ROM
menuitem=XMC, Extended memory + Mouse + CD-ROM
menuitem=CMC, Conventional Memory only + Mouse + CD-ROM
menuitem=EM, Expanded memory + Mouse
menuitem=XM, Extended memory + Mouse
menuitem=CM, Conventional memory only + Mouse
menuitem=E, Expanded memory
menuitem=X, Extended memory
menuitem=C, Conventional memory only

menudefault=EMC,10

[EMC]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\UMBPCI\UMBPCI.SYS /I=D800-EFFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE X=D800-EFFF X=B800-C7FF I=C800-D7FF I=B000-B7FF RAM M3 D=256 AUTO
DEVICE=C:\UMBPCI\LOWDMA.SYS
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[XMC]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[CMC]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[EM]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM

[XM]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF

[CM]

[E]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM

[X]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF

[C]

I have absolutely no idea about the strings after EMM386 and UMBPCI I just copy-pasta'd them from mdgx.com.

CkRtech wrote:

Also - Why do you need so many configurations? I could see a case for EMS vs NOEMS. However, with mouse and CDROM sys file loaded into UMB, they are out of the way of conventional memory and rather harmless. Even MSCDEX is loaded into UMB.

I don't know why Windows needs "CALL C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM." in there. That is just chewing up more memory. Do you normally boot Windows or DOS?

I'm new to DOS and I just used Phil's .pif file from his website, which includes all these configurations. Yes I boot to both Windows 98 and DOS on this machine.

dr_st wrote:

So I think the DOS=NOAUTO is actually your biggest problem. Remove it.

It definitely was.

And you don't need UMBPCI. My configuration is quite similar to yours + Smartdrive, and I get ~620K of free conventional memory with the Config/Autoexec below:

STACKS= ? I don't have whatever this is -- MDGX's config has 0,0 .. should I set this to 9, 128 as you have?
BREAK= ON -- I looked this up ... it just lets you use CTRL+PAUSE/BREAK to stop a prompt from running ?

SHELL= I don't need?

Also curious about SET MIDI= line since I don't use it and my SC-55 is detected and plays just fine?

I'd really like to try SMARTDRV to speed things up but it didn't seem to do anything for me.

MDGX.com seemed to suggest these settings...

LH SMARTDRV 2048 16 /B:4096 /E:4096 /L in autoexec and also in the config

INSTALLHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE 2048 16 /B:4096 /E:4096 /L -- installhigh doesn't seem to fit with everything else I've seen in there -- which is DEVICEHIGH=

I tried some of these but it didn't seem to speed anything up.

Thanks very much for all of the sharing -- I appreciate the help.

I'm new to DOS and I just used Phil's .pif file from his website, which includes all these configurations.

While it might be nice to see that many options, you really won't have much use for most of them.

Did you try SHSUCDHD already?

As noted above, the FreeDOS UIDE.SYS can also cache data and might be a better idea than messing with Smartdrv.

The SHELL line is unlikely to do any harm; the SET MIDI line is only used for Sound Blaste cards. If I'm not mistaken, INSTALLHIGH can be used in the config.sys to load programs normally loaded in autoexec.bat.

I haven't tried it yet -- where/which version should I download? Some of them say a replacement for MSCDEX which I don't want since I'll need that for my real CDs (audio CD), yes? Also I don't see mention of UIDE.SYS here... is it on the UMBPCI page?

Curious why COMMAND.COM is being loaded twice. Also, IFSHLP and DBLBUF can potentially be excluded depending on what programs you run from command line. To do so, you would need HIMEM.SYS loaded prior to DOS=HIGH,UMB, then you can include NOAUTO, so DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO should work.

SHSUCDX is an MSCDEX replacement. I haven't had any problems with audio CDs or anything else working after the change, although I think some people have had troubles with esoteric CD drivers not being compatible.

gdjacobs wrote:

Curious why COMMAND.COM is being loaded twice.

Not sure. Also not sure why MS-DOS reads 'SYSTEM' now.

Also, IFSHLP and DBLBUF can potentially be excluded depending on what programs you run from command line. To do so, you would need HIMEM.SYS loaded prior to DOS=HIGH,UMB, then you can include NOAUTO, so DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO should work.

I just tried DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF right underneath DOS=SINGLE and before DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO and it reverted "SYSTEM" back to "MS-DOS" and increased the conventional memory usage from ~10K to ~28K. I think NOAUTO needs to remain off.

SHSUCDX is an MSCDEX replacement. I haven't had any problems with audio CDs or anything else working after the change, although I think some people have had troubles with esoteric CD drivers not being compatible.

Where should I get this? I'm concerned about the version since I found a post on Vogons from 2011 where it was stated:

No mixed-mode cd support, anything with CDA is not playing correctly.
SHSUCDX is not 100% compatible with mscdex.

Also, I tried REMarking "CALL C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM" and when I rebooted the moment the autoexec finished loading it restarted my computer again and went straight to Windows 98. When I returned to MS-DOS mode it was unremarked -- so this needs to not be messed with either, it seems.