VOGONS


First post, by andreja6

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Considering AGP Universal is not as universal as it should be, I want to know if there is a list of cards which are compatible with what. So far, I know two=

  • nVidia FX5500 IS Universal, can fit into x2, x4, and x8 motherboards.
  • SIS 300 is NOT universal, its ONLY x2.
  • I personally have a TNT2/Riva card which is ONLY 2x, yet has a universal connector.

Just a reminder, x2 is 3.3v, x4 is 1.5v, and x8 is 0.8v

I'm also curious about the nVidia GeForce4 MX-440 since they have a pretty low price and universal keying. I don't want to fry my AB-BH6 which went through enough suffering 😒

Last edited by andreja6 on 2017-11-28, 08:17. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 14, by Deksor

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The keying of AGP slot isn't related to speed, it's related to the voltage

here's how
424px-AGP_%26_AGP_Pro_Keying.svg.png

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Reply 2 of 14, by andreja6

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Deksor wrote:

The keying of AGP slot isn't related to speed, it's related to the voltage

here's how
imageeeee

That's not the point, x2, x4, and x4 are the standards. They relate to the voltage, not only the speed. The keying actually doesn't mean anything, since many manufacturers just out right ignored standards and made x4 only cards use a universal slot, or x4 only motherboards have universal slots.

Reply 3 of 14, by agent_x007

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andreja6 wrote:

Just a reminder, x2 is 3.3v, x4 is 1.5v, and x8 is 0.8v

"x2"/"x4"/"x8" doesn't mean anything in this case.

It's AGP 1.0, AGP 2.0, and AGP 3.0 you are after.
AGP 1.0 is 3,3V and supports 1x/2x speed (depending on chipset).
AGP 2.0 is 1,5V and supports 1x/2x/4x speeds (specs : LINK)
AGP 3.0 is 0,8V and supports 4x/8x speed.

Keep in mind, AGP version isn't the only limiting factor on GPU compatibility.
BIOS is also important, together with actual chipset that is being used.

157143230295.png

Reply 4 of 14, by firage

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That's interesting about the TNT2. It does exist with both 3.3V and 3.3V/1.5V connectors.

There are three kinds of "Universal" AGP connections. The first is universal between 1.0/2.0, and incompatible with (rare) AGP 3.0 only devices. Then with AGP 3.0 you got one that is 1.0/2.0/3.0 universal and another that is rarely advertised as universal as it's only 2.0/3.0 universal, and lacks 3.3V keying.

My big-red-switch 486

Reply 6 of 14, by bjwil1991

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I have an ASUS branded Riva TNT2 M64 that works with either AGP 4x or 2x surprisingly.

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Reply 7 of 14, by Imperious

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My Abit KT7-Raid has a universal AGP slot. So far I have tested it with cards all the way from Riva 128 and Intel I740 up to Nvidia 6800's, ATI X850XT and a HD3650. I have a HD3850 but would need a psu than can
supply a decent 5v rail as well as have PCI express connectors.

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Reply 8 of 14, by KCompRoom2000

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I have a Dell OEM ATI Rage 128 Ultra AGP (32MB low-profile model) card that has the universal (2 notches) connector, I actually tested it on a 3.3V AGP board (an ASUS P2B-VE) and two 1.5V AGP boards (a Dell GX260, and an ASUS A8V), it works fine both ways.

Reply 9 of 14, by The Serpent Rider

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Some early Matrox G400 cards may not work with AGP 8x motherboards.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 10 of 14, by Kordanor

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Coming here from an other discussion where my PCI slot didnt work, possibly due to an AT Power supply.
Now I was considering buying a Board with AGP instead. But it would be problematic if there was a problem which is extremely similar.

I was looking for a Socket 7 / Super Socket 7 board which works with an Nvidia Card having DVI. I still have my "original" Geforce 4 Ti 4200 here which I wanted to use for that.
However it seems like Socket 7 Boards usually have AGP 1.0, which according to agent_x007 means, that it's AGP 1x / 2x

agent_x007 wrote on 2017-11-28, 10:59:
It's AGP 1.0, AGP 2.0, and AGP 3.0 you are after. AGP 1.0 is 3,3V and supports 1x/2x speed (depending on chipset). AGP 2.0 is 1, […]
Show full quote

It's AGP 1.0, AGP 2.0, and AGP 3.0 you are after.
AGP 1.0 is 3,3V and supports 1x/2x speed (depending on chipset).
AGP 2.0 is 1,5V and supports 1x/2x/4x speeds (specs : LINK)
AGP 3.0 is 0,8V and supports 4x/8x speed.

Keep in mind, AGP version isn't the only limiting factor on GPU compatibility.
BIOS is also important, together with actual chipset that is being used.

According to an article on https://www.anandtech.com/show/869/4
...only Nvidia Cards Geforce 3 Ti and Up really have reliable DVI. But like the Geforce 4 Ti I have these are all AGP 4X. (That said the Quadro 2 Pro also is AGP 4X)

So does that mean that Socket 7 boards with AGP 1.0 will generally not work with these cards?

I also remember that I tested by Geforce 4 card on a Slot 1 Board (pc100 bxcel) and if I am not mistaken it worked but it went very hot fast, which I thought might be due to the card being modded with a passive cooler that time. But when I tested it a few weeks back on a rather modern board I did not observe that it got as hot.
So was that an indication that the card would have been fried if I kept it active due to not being supported/overvolted?

Then as always there was a Video from Phil about another topic, which covered this as well, and also caused some more confusion:
https://youtu.be/md5Wl7t-VfI?t=764
(linked to one confusing point timestamp)
So he is using a Super Socket 7 Board only supporting AGP 1.0, and he tested cards using AGP x4 and even one using AGP x8. And he even mentions to disable AGP 2X to make it work better. And with that my understanding of everything mentioned before goes completely out of the window, as that indicates that the AGP speed doesnt matter at all (well, ofc besides of it getting slower if the board doesnt support it).

So now I am even more confused than before. Do I need to consider AGP Speeds (X1-X8) for Super Socket 7, or does it just not matter?

Reply 11 of 14, by agent_x007

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Just to add one thing : If card support 1x/2x mode, it will work in AGP 1.0 board.
That means AGP 2.0 usually will work in AGP 1.0, and AGP 3.0 won't.

HOWEVER both boards and cards require proper notch(es) for them to compatible with eachother (as pointed out by Deksor).
Other than that, AGP cards SHOULD work in anything regardless of AGP standard motherboard supports, as that's whole point of having "AGP" name in standard.

Reply 12 of 14, by Kordanor

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AGP 3.0 was introduced with the Geforce 4. So everything before Geforce 4 should work without issues and after that you might end up with dead hardware if you are not lucky (aka the Graphics card doesnt support it, but looking at the GF4 Ti 4200 manual, it doesnt even mention anything about it)

What happens if it does not work, but the cards do fit physically? Would they heat up and die like if you overvolted a CPU?

Reply 13 of 14, by Meatball

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Kordanor wrote on 2023-03-15, 21:26:

AGP 3.0 was introduced with the Geforce 4. So everything before Geforce 4 should work without issues and after that you might end up with dead hardware if you are not lucky (aka the Graphics card doesnt support it, but looking at the GF4 Ti 4200 manual, it doesnt even mention anything about it)

What happens if it does not work, but the cards do fit physically? Would they heat up and die like if you overvolted a CPU?

I saw smoke. I plugged in a Voodoo4 4500 (Reference model, not the L-shape) into a 4x/8x board. Thank the Lord I was watching closely to pull the plug instantaneously. The card still works fine... whew...

Reply 14 of 14, by Kordanor

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Meatball wrote on 2023-03-15, 21:30:
Kordanor wrote on 2023-03-15, 21:26:

AGP 3.0 was introduced with the Geforce 4. So everything before Geforce 4 should work without issues and after that you might end up with dead hardware if you are not lucky (aka the Graphics card doesnt support it, but looking at the GF4 Ti 4200 manual, it doesnt even mention anything about it)

What happens if it does not work, but the cards do fit physically? Would they heat up and die like if you overvolted a CPU?

I saw smoke. I plugged in a Voodoo4 4500 (Reference model, not the L-shape) into a 4x/8x board. Thank the Lord I was watching closely to pull the plug instantaneously. The card still works fine... whew...

Ah, alright. But that's basically the other way around. Putting an old card (in comparison) into a rather new Motherboard. Something which (probably) didnt happen that often back in the days when the stuff was released (as you basically kept upgrading your graphics cards much quicker)