Hi, Kahenraz, thanks a lot for this thread! I'm just watching the video.. 😁

Kahenraz wrote:

It's incredible how the times have changed.

They sure did. Technology is affordable more than ever. And some old ideas are new again.
I like how VR makes a comeback right now or how the PDAs are back (smartphones).

Also, it makes me really happy to see that Do-It-Yourself is live and sound again.
When I was a little kid, I loved to play with my construction sets, building crystal radio sets, etc.

When the 2000s came, I was depressed to see that no one cared about this anymore.
People were just buying pre-made stuff off the shelves. Gratefuly, things changed to the better in the last years again.

Thanks to YT and other movements, people are interested to make their own stuff again.
The maker scene reminds me of how radio amateurs and electronic hobbyists used to be: Building, learning and team work.
These are definitely some of the things of today that let me hope again.

Kahenraz wrote:

Everyone now has a computer in their pocket that could put a person on the moon and we use it to watch cats on the internet.

I love the cats part, it's definitly one of the positive things that happened.
I believe that watching these videos makes people more sensitive and cheerful. ^^

As for the moon thng: Some people argued that Apollo crews flew to the moon with the power of a C64 already.
Some NASA people said that the C64 comparison was not quite true, however.

The flight computers were primitive by the standards of the 80s and today.
Also, they were fixed-function computers. Simple, but very durable and malware-proof (wired program code). 😉

They also were immune against cosmic radiation. In part, this was also because of the simpler design of these chips.
The structural sizes of the chips' inwards were much bigger, thus taking less damage.

This reminds me of the old news, where NASA seeked for old 8086 chips for their shuttles. 😀
https://www.geek.com/chips/nasa-needs-8086-chips-549867/

Technology is affordable more than ever.

On low-end spectrum - maybe. But high-end will cost you much more this days.

Define high end, what regular people would consider high end cost a lot more in the early to mid nineties. The PC I had in 92 cost over $7000 taking inflation into accout. It was reasonably high end but it still had a lot of upgrade potential. I would consider a $2000 PC of today of about the same level in terms of equivalent capability.

You can build a very capable machine for around $1000 these days.

oeuvre wrote:

You can build a very capable machine for around $1000 these days.

A build idea I have for a high-end fileserver build is around 1600 bucks. That's about twice the price I paid for my low-end gaming system back in 2001, close to the price of the Mac I bought in 2003, about half the price of what a high-end desktop PC would have cost just half a decade earlier, and the further back you go, the more expensive it gets...

Define high end

18-core CPU, 128gb RAM, pair of custom GeForce 1080 Ti or GeForce Titan Xp in SLI , 2 Tb SSD, latest Creative sound card (could be ludiocrusly priced top ASUS card), fancy case and water cooling to top that out. Not to mention 4k monitor. So around 12k USD or more.

... How would a file server cost $1600?!

The Serpent Rider wrote:

Define high end

18-core CPU, 128gb RAM, pair of custom GeForce 1080 Ti or GeForce Titan Xp in SLI , 2 Tb SSD, latest Creative sound card (could be ludiocrusly priced top ASUS card), fancy case and water cooling to top that out. Not to mention 4k monitor. So around 12k USD or more.

The dealer PCs at the investment bank I use to work at cost about $20’000 in 1997.

An IBM 5170 base model cost $6000 in 1984, which equates to arounf $14000 now.

The dealer PCs at the investment bank I use to work at cost about $20’000 in 1997.

I suppose it was some server grade hardware with pricy software to boot, so it's can't be compared directly.

An IBM 5170 base model cost $6000 in 1984, which equates to arounf $14000 now.

Which included some software and customer support.

The Serpent Rider wrote:

I suppose it was some server grade hardware with pricy software to boot, so it's can't be compared directly. […]
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The dealer PCs at the investment bank I use to work at cost about $20’000 in 1997.

I suppose it was some server grade hardware with pricy software to boot, so it's can't be compared directly.

An IBM 5170 base model cost $6000 in 1984, which equates to arounf $14000 now.

Which included some software and customer support.

no the workgroup servers were over $100’000 each, the 20k was just the PC and screens.

The 1984 IBM came with DOS and some configuration software., and customer support. So like prrtty. much like any PC that isn’t home made.

This is why I usually say "it's like going back into the childhood that no one really had" when I try to explain this hobby to someone else.

Like, in my case, a "1996 gaming PC" usually didn't have workstation-grade motherboard, absolute maximum of RAM and soundcards aimed at amateur musicians. That's not to say that ridiculously overpowered machines didn't exist in the 90s:

Falcon Northwest probably comes closest to my Pentium build in the signature — they did use 430HX mortherboards and high-grade Yamaha wavetable stuff. They even put SCSI disks into gaming machines. And their machines cost around $7500 once you consider the inflation. And they've actually been doing this since 1992/1993 (according to reviews in previous CGW issues).

What would I be playing on in 1996, the year I started gaming? A Toshiba 486 laptop with no CD-ROM drive or soundcard, 8 megabytes of RAM and 500 megs of HDD.

So, yeah, it's a childhood that no one really had.

Yea, this has always been one of my pet peeves as well...
People who only look at introduction dates of certain hardware, and disregard things like availability, price, and geographics.

If I were to define some eras based on my own experiences, I'd do something like this:
1981-1988: Various non-PC systems: ZX81, Spectrum, VIC-20, C64, Atari, NES, Sega etc.
1988-1990: People start using PCs at home, and start gaming on them (mainly budget or secondhand 8088+CGA/Hercules machines, often office surplus), but also still home computers, including new 16-bit machines like the Amiga and Atari ST.
1990-1994: PC gaming becomes more serious with 286, 386SX and 386DX, VGA and sound cards, but home computers still have a presence.
1994-1996: 486DX era, PC becomes the main gaming platform, other platforms all but dead.
1996-beyond: Pentium etc.

jheronimus wrote:

This is why I usually say "it's like going back into the childhood that no one really had" when I try to explain this hobby to someone else.

I generally say: "I had been dealing with enough of these shitty below spec computers back in the day, so today, I just don't want to" but I really loved your phrasing 🤣

Scali wrote:

Yea, this has always been one of my pet peeves as well... People who only look at introduction dates of certain hardware, and di […]
Show full quote

Yea, this has always been one of my pet peeves as well...
People who only look at introduction dates of certain hardware, and disregard things like availability, price, and geographics.

If I were to define some eras based on my own experiences, I'd do something like this:
1981-1988: Various non-PC systems: ZX81, Spectrum, VIC-20, C64, Atari, NES, Sega etc.
1988-1990: People start using PCs at home, and start gaming on them (mainly budget or secondhand 8088+CGA/Hercules machines, often office surplus), but also still home computers, including new 16-bit machines like the Amiga and Atari ST.
1990-1994: PC gaming becomes more serious with 286, 386SX and 386DX, VGA and sound cards, but home computers still have a presence.
1994-1996: 486DX era, PC becomes the main gaming platform, other platforms all but dead.
1996-beyond: Pentium etc.

This is so correct... I've been triggered to write something similar in many thread but couldn't put at the time all these in order. Again, this is the true history in a couple of lines.

I guess I wasn’t that usual but my 92/93 PC was a 486 DX 33 with Tseng graphics, Roland LAPCI (that I still own and use today), Sound blaster Pro. I guess it makes a big difference that I was already an adult with a well paid job.

In 86 I was desperate to own an Amiga 1000, but couldn’t afford it so it was an Atari 520 STFM for me. I had to buy it on credit because I didn’t have the money.

Picture from about 93, it looks like I was doing something in Visual Basic. Clone PC was from Dan Technology.

I remember the 486 family computer we had back between 1994 and 2012. It had 24MB SIMM-72 RAM, AMD Am486 DX4-120 CPU, WinBond I/O controller (IDE/FDD/RS232/LPT/GamePort), Sound Blaster 16 WavEffects CT4170, S3 Bahamas Paradise 64 2MB VLB video card, 1.2GB Fujitsu HDD, 3.5" 1.44MB Floppy drive, CD-ROM, 5.25" 1.2MB Floppy drive (the drives are either in storage, installed in another system, or got tossed out years ago), and Windows 95 with Plus! installed, and a modem capable of transmitting 28.8Kbps. Heck, the Packard Bell Pack-Mate 28 Plus I have must've had a huge price on it, but not too much as there was no sound card, CD-ROM drive, network capabilities, or anything, until I installed and upgraded parts (CPU, RAM, floppy drive, hard drive, sound cards, and a CD-ROM drive) within the past year.

Does anyone else recognize those foldable speakers in the photo lvader posted? I don't remember who made them but I definitely remember seeing them at some point growing up.

the speakers are Altec Lansing ACS300.1

I still have the lower end ACS3 model from our old 486 in service.