VOGONS


First post, by Intel486dx33

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I am trying to restore some computers for gaming.
I would like them to as manufacture build. But I also want them to play games best as possible.
So I am in a catch 22. Do I keep them original or do I upgrade the OS ?

What are the benefits of Win98se over Win95c for game playing ?
For example lets say the computer is a 200mhz Pentium with 128mb of ram.
Should I stick with Win95 or upgrade to Win98se ?

Reply 1 of 19, by Revolter

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Not sure if the 95B and 95C are different in that regard, but on the 95B you at the very least cannot run the following stuff:

Mystery of the Druids
Breath of Fire IV (maybe it was lacking a video codec required to play the intro?)
KernelEx
USB Wi-Fi dongle drivers for RT2571W

There were a couple of other games released in 2000+ that wouldn't run on my 95B config before the 98SE upgrade, but I don't remember which titles.

Celeron 800, 512MB, GeForce2 MX, ES1938S/DB S2, Windows ME/DOS 6.22

Reply 2 of 19, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

On a Pentium 200 MHz, I doubt that the things that can benefit from Win98 SE (over Win95) will be fun to play / use.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 3 of 19, by Baoran

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Main reason why I don't use win95 is the lack of usb support. Even if you install "usb support" patch, it still couldn't find drivers even for any usb mouse or keyboard.

Reply 5 of 19, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
noshutdown wrote:

win98 is much better at memory management, any machine with 64mb ram or more should use win98 over 95.

Indeed. Some one should assume that older OSes require less than newer ones..
Alas, it isn't always the case. I'm just thinking of Win 3.0 vs Win 3.1..
In a similar way, Win98SE had a lots of fixes that made it less demanding than Win95.
In addition 98/98SE also added support for VDM drivers and MMX (and SSE ?).
- If only the Windows Explorer of Win98SE wasn't so bloated (in comparison to Win95's). 😉

Since I've remember I already saw this type of topic some time ago,
I looked up one of my older postings. Hope that's okay.
Re: Windows 95 OSR 2.5 and 128-256mb ram

Edit: Here's the archived version of "Windows 98 & WinME Memory Management":
https://web.archive.org/web/20040410084807/ht … 4/a/memmgmt.php

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 6 of 19, by kaputnik

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Jo22 wrote:
Indeed. Some one should assume that older OSes require less than newer ones.. Alas, it isn't always the case. I'm just thinking […]
Show full quote
noshutdown wrote:

win98 is much better at memory management, any machine with 64mb ram or more should use win98 over 95.

Indeed. Some one should assume that older OSes require less than newer ones..
Alas, it isn't always the case. I'm just thinking of Win 3.0 vs Win 3.1..
In a similar way, Win98SE had a lots of fixes that made it less demanding than Win95.
In addition 98/98SE also added support for VDM drivers and MMX (and SSE ?).
- If only the Windows Explorer of Win98SE wasn't so bloated (in comparison to Win95's). 😉

Since I've remember I already saw this type of topic some time ago,
I looked up one of my older postings. Hope that's okay.
Re: Windows 95 OSR 2.5 and 128-256mb ram

Edit: Here's the archived version of "Windows 98 & WinME Memory Management":
https://web.archive.org/web/20040410084807/ht … 4/a/memmgmt.php

Well, if you disable Active Desktop and the other web integration in Explorer, it's not all that bad really 😀

If you still think it's too heavy, you can always install the W95 OSR2.2 version of Explorer with 98Lite. It also have some halfway options that still lets you use the W98 Explorer, but disables some background resource hogs.

Reply 7 of 19, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
kaputnik wrote:

Well, if you disable Active Desktop and the other web integration in Explorer, it's not all that bad really 😀

If you still think it's too heavy, you can always install the W95 OSR2.2 version of Explorer with 98Lite. It also have some halfway options that still lets you use the W98 Explorer, but disables some background resource hogs.

Thanks for the tips! I was using Win98SE since I had a Pentium 75, with a similar config you describe (Active Desktop disabled).
Except for the alternate explorer, of course. Back then, I did not read many computer magazines, so I wasn't aware of this.

Around the time, I was quite behind the actual technology, I guess. Windows 98 was brand new and so I expected it
to be superior to all the old stuff I knew before. My father also got a new Pentium III machine with an NVidia Geforce card.
This was around the year 2000, I believe. Back then, I still had my 286-12 with the Pro Audio Spectrum 16.

I later moved it into the P75 that ran Windows 98SE and it worked fine with the default drivers and with the old W3.1 drivers.
In another PC, a Pentium 166, I later installed a Sound Blaster 16 CT1740, which also worked very good on Windows 98SE.
And in DOS, since there were no extra drivers necessary (all jumper configurable).
I guess this about the time I realized how valuable good soundcards are.
I never threw away one of these soundcards.

When my father boxed up his old 386DX40 along with Win95, I slowly realized how many years had passed and
how behind we were in regards of technology. A 486 was still a power horse to us, so we exptected it to run well on
Windows 98SE, too.

I had no clue how slow it would run on a 486 platform, actually. A Compaq desktop PC w/ 486DX2-66 and 16MiB
proved me how wrong I was. It was dog slow on such a machine, were Windows 3.10 was fast as a rocket.
On the other hand, 98SE supported old ISA ctuff quite well, most of which I had got no Win95 or 3.1 drivers for.
In that respect, Windows 98SE was really great. It shipped with a large driver database, even bigger than ME's.

And to be fair, Windows 98SE ran fine on any 586 I installed it on. Much better than Linuxes of the day.
I guess this was because of 586's better FPUs and pipeliining and bigger caches.
And because of their (586 PCs) newer 16550AF UARTs, PCI graphics and PCI IDE controllers.

On the other hand, my father's 386DX40 w/ 16MiB of RAM and with Win95 RTM was the most stable PC I ever saw.
It never crashed or showed instability. Strange how things are different sometimes.

Speaking of strange things, Windows ME was more compatible with some late 586 machines than Win98SE.
Still have got that Gigabyte GA586-something PC that runs Win95 badly, Win98 not at all, and Win ME just fine. 😁

Edit: Sorry for the long posting, I got taken away again. 😊
Windows 98SE also has another nice feature DMA support for Hard Disks.
If it works, it speeds up overall performance quite a bit.

Edit: @Intel486dx33 Just try, that's the best way to find out. Either on real hardware or PCem, 86Box or Virtual PC 2007.
It really depends on your needs, Windows 98SE supports AGP, MMX, SSE and such things.

Maybe Win95c can be patched for same compatibilty, not sure.
I'd recommend finding all the upgrades for Win95c and see how it performs.

If it runs well enough, leave it that way. Personally, I had no negative experience on a friends old Pentium.
He wasn't a gamer, though. Win95c misses the WDM driver model and comes with less drivers than 98SE.

But if you've got them already, there's no reason not to give Win95c a try.
Just make a backup (HDD image) once it works. Use Win32Disk Imager, Acronis True Image
(v.7 to 9,10 boot on old Pentiums). This way, you have it much easier if an "upgrade" to 98SE fails.
or any other tool.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 8 of 19, by dr.ido

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I used 98lite on all my Windows 98 installs once I discovered it - on everything from a 486DX4-75 with 16MB RAM to my at the time daily driver Athlon XP 1800 that stayed on Win 98 until GTA-SA came out and I moved to Windows 2000.

I did a couple of Windows 98 installs again for the first time in many years and instantly remember how much I hated the default Windows 98 desktop - I'll have the download 98lite again.

Reply 9 of 19, by chinny22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

yes win98 lite is best of both worlds, but missing the OP's desire to restore back to original OS.
Win95 is fine for lower spec PC's, not ideal, but fine.

Reply 10 of 19, by Intel486dx33

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I have Win95c installed and working fine on my Sony Vaio Pentium 200mhz with 32mb of ram.
I added the USB patches and USB works fine now.

What other updates do I need ?
Do I need DirectX update too ?

Reply 11 of 19, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
dr.ido wrote:

I used 98lite on all my Windows 98 installs once I discovered it - on everything from a 486DX4-75 with 16MB RAM to my at the time daily driver Athlon XP 1800 that stayed on Win 98 until GTA-SA came out and I moved to Windows 2000.

I did a couple of Windows 98 installs again for the first time in many years and instantly remember how much I hated the default Windows 98 desktop - I'll have the download 98lite again.

Wasn't this the program that you needed to pay for to use a full version of it?
I ended up settling for 98SE with a 2.x version of the unofficial service pack. Or I went with ME (which I ended up doing most of the time).

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 12 of 19, by dr.ido

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

The free version of 98lite 4.5 would do the shell swap. I think I only needed to run it once which created the patched set of Win98 install files - then I just used that set install files over and over again. My habit back in the day was to just copy the installation files onto the hard drive, then swap the hard drive into the target machine and run setup - I rarely installed from CD.

I think the paid version also had some other more aggressive tweaks available.

Reply 13 of 19, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I never used that 98lite. Does it work with a german install set?
I always make one clean install without any Drivers and take a snapshot with "retter" also known as "fat32cp".
After that I make a full Driver-installtion and take another snapshop with "retter".
So I am able to make a reinstall from the Partition within 1 Minute. Very handy

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 15 of 19, by KCompRoom2000

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Personally, I think the judging factor for this decision is which version you prefer the most. If you like Windows 95 better for any reason (i.e. you prefer its IE-less Explorer shell) and your system has support for it, go with 95. If you prefer Windows 98 or find that your system has better support for it, use that instead.

There aren't that many advantages to using 95 over 98 on newer hardware (in terms of features), but depending on how old your computer is, it might have support for both versions which basically leaves you with the personal preference factor.

Reply 16 of 19, by Dominus

User metadata
Rank DOSBox Moderator
Rank
DOSBox Moderator
dr.zeissler wrote:
I never used that 98lite. Does it work with a german install set? I always make one clean install without any Drivers and take a […]
Show full quote

I never used that 98lite. Does it work with a german install set?
I always make one clean install without any Drivers and take a snapshot with "retter" also known as "fat32cp".
After that I make a full Driver-installtion and take another snapshop with "retter".
So I am able to make a reinstall from the Partition within 1 Minute. Very handy

Yes, back in the days, I actually paid for 98lite and used it with my German Windows.

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 17 of 19, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I use Win95 only on my 486 Unisys CWD (A-Version!). I use Win98se on all others because of two things:
- Win98se emulates a SB15 in Dos-Window
- Win98se can make use of my keyboard-power-button with softshutdown and powerup which is VERY handy.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 18 of 19, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

I prefered 98SE (98lite or equivalent) over 95 on my 486DX4/100. 95 was a buggier and more crashstatic POS than even 98.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 19 of 19, by Intel486dx33

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

My install of 95c crashed for some reason. I suspect it was the unsupported USB patches, So I just used Win98se Now I have to find the USB patches for this too. 😠