Thank you for the congrats, well wishes, and advice so far!

SirNickity wrote on 2020-03-05, 23:45:

Regarding your video mode problems, are you 100% certain you have the right driver?  If you just downloaded something (vs. having the original disk that came with it), there's a good chance it's only mostly compatible.  Back in the ISA/VLB days, there was no definitive way of detecting a graphics card like you can with PCI IDs.  All you could do was poke at it and maybe the chipset would have a few magic registers that would provide something positive.  But, the board itself was often manufactured by a fly-by-night company, and who even knows how they implemented it.

The other possibility could be a video RAM mismatch.  1024x768 @ 24-bit color requires a lot of frame buffer memory.  486-era boards do not guarantee that.  1024x768 @ 256 colors was pretty typical for a mid-range board.  Graphics professionals might spring for a 4MB+ board, but most of us poor saps had anywhere from 512K to 2MB.  True color at 1024x768 requires 2,359,296 bytes of video memory.

No clue on the driver - just got these so I haven't looked but I assume the guy who ran the computer store knew what he was doing. I'm currently looking at video card upgrades, but the list from Gona actually says my Trident 3Dimage 9750 (which is in the 200mhz - I'm focusing on the 100mhz now FYI as I need slower) as one of only 3 lines of cards which are compatible with pretty much every DOS game, so I might switch that into the 100mhz and then I'll have to find the correct drivers. Otherwise a S3 Savage4 32mb looks great (as I think that Trident has like an eighth of that RAM...). 

TheMobRules wrote on 2020-03-06, 00:04:

If you find that the CT1740 is too noisy, you can just disable the internal amplifier by moving OPSL and OPSR jumpers to the 1-2 position, I suppose you'll be using amplified speakers anyway. Unfortunately earlier cards such as the Pro do not allow the possibility of disabling the amplifier, so you can get lots of "system thinking" noise.

Really? Why would people ever use these amplified? I thought everything was line-level? I guess for headphones (this the volume dial too)? I'll see what it's set at - I think my Roland speakers like line level input (if I have that phrase right).

kixs wrote on 2020-03-06, 09:39:

Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-03-05, 21:51:

CRM Beige Case with LED MHz display
UNKNOWN Socket 3 motherboard (board marked "V3.4B/F", largest chip: UMC UM8881F 9652-EYA MB1226)

Yes, this is most probably M919 motherboard. I actually really like it as it has ISA, PCI and VLB slots and it's fast too. The most problematic is cache. It uses cache-on-a-stick and usually it's missing....

Anywhere else I should look on the board to confirm this? And what you're saying is weird - the other guys were complaining that that missing cache makes these WAY slower than they should be but you're saying it's fast (care to explain please - I'm still SUPER new to all this!)? Where should I look to see if the cache-on-a-stick is missing? I think others mentioned it's there but not soldered in properly or something scammy and funky like that?

maxtherabbit wrote on 2020-03-06, 13:12:

your Pentium system already has a PS/2 port on the back of the case - it's the 6 pin mini-DIN that looks like svideo but is next to the DB-25 parallel port

ps/2 optical mice are available, or you can convert many older USB optical mice back to ps/2 with a passive adapter

Think I saw that last night (and did think it was S-Video or something else) - thanks. Focusing on the 100mhz the most now as the entire point of picking these up was to get something super slow for those old DOS games and the 100mhz only has Serial for the mouse. I picked up a PS/2 to Serial adapter and see if these old optical mice work (my one model I think is the first Microsoft optical mouse so might not get too much older than that).

I did some more testing last night, and even the 100mhz is too fast for some of these DOS games (the speed-sensitive test game I ran was Barbarian from 1987)... and the entire point of looking for an even older computer is to be able to play games like that... On a positive note I got Jazz Jackrabbit to run for the first time since I was ~12 years old 🤣, and this machine will run Doom very well, and Quake OK (I'll have to test, but probably 20 FPS, so not horrible but definitely not super smooth).

Can anybody link me to any resources about which exact MB's and which exact processors will let me turn off caches to slow a machine down so I can start learning myself? I'm striking out on finding a spreadsheet or something that I can cross-reference which MB + CPU + BIOS combo I'll need for something like this (and when I can't even identify MB's a lot of the time...especially over eBay which before this haul is my ONLY source for computers...makes this process EXTREMELY hard). I've also read some processors are multiplier locked and some are unlocked? This Intel SK050 100MHz is "Clock multiplier  3"... Oh, and I don't want to use software slowdown methods as they're said to be uneven/jerky during many games.   ...just thinking out loud here, but could I switch the 100mhz into the 200's case since the 200 has the turbo button? Then with that turbo button off would it drop the multiplier on the 100mhz chip or something like that?

I'm open to getting a slower processor for one of these machines like Boohyaka mentioned if that's possible. Would just need to know what to look for (think I need a 3.3v CPU for the 100mhz replacement, right? Othewise it won't work with w 5v? ...which I think kills this project because older/slower ones are usually 5v, right?), and I still don't know if my BIOS will even let me slow it down or not (OR if it's even the BIOS that makes this possible, or a combo of CPU + MB + certain BIOS or what...). If neither of these two computers are good candidates for this I might as well buy the exact MB Phil talks about in his video which has these slow-down features because otherwise I have zero clue what to look for myself.... And at that point I'll put these two machines up for sale on CL Philly since I'm literally well over (so much so I'm embarrassed) a grand in the hole just with getting that Win98 P3 machine up and running.... I honestly only need that P3 and something slower and I'll be golden (only have room for two computers in my game room/den anyway).

Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-03-06, 16:22:

kixs wrote on 2020-03-06, 09:39:

Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-03-05, 21:51:

CRM Beige Case with LED MHz display
UNKNOWN Socket 3 motherboard (board marked "V3.4B/F", largest chip: UMC UM8881F 9652-EYA MB1226)

Yes, this is most probably M919 motherboard. I actually really like it as it has ISA, PCI and VLB slots and it's fast too. The most problematic is cache. It uses cache-on-a-stick and usually it's missing....

Anywhere else I should look on the board to confirm this? And what you're saying is weird - the other guys were complaining that that missing cache makes these WAY slower than they should be but you're saying it's fast (care to explain please - I'm still SUPER new to all this!)? Where should I look to see if the cache-on-a-stick is missing? I think others mentioned it's there but not soldered in properly or something scammy and funky like that?

I actully only now looked at the photos... Yes, its M919 and the cache modul is already installed. You have a complete and nice motherboard. Missing cache would slow down the machine about 10-20% - depends on the actual program/game. But you don't need to worry about this.

There are many revisions of M919 - you have V3.4B/F which is one of the latest or even the last revision. Some revisions had socketed cache chips. Some had fake cache chips soldered on the board. In my opinion this is a very nice VIP (Vesa, ISA, Pci) board to have.

About your other questions...

Here are jumper settings and other stuff:
http://www.elhvb.com/webhq/models/486pci/m919v3.htm
http://th2chips.freeservers.com/m919/unoff/m919.html

To really slow down the CPU, you have to disable L1 and L2 cache in the BIOS settings. If this isn't slow enough, you can lower the FSB speed of the motherboard - look at the jumpers settings - now you have 33MHz FSB. You could go down to 25MHz and with 2X multi you'd have a slow 486DX2-50. With L1 and L2 caches disabled it would be really slow. You'll have to test it tho.

kixs wrote on 2020-03-06, 18:36:

Here are jumper settings and other stuff: http://www.elhvb.com/webhq/models/486pci/m919v3.htm http://th2chips.freeservers.com/m9 […]
Show full quote

Here are jumper settings and other stuff:
http://www.elhvb.com/webhq/models/486pci/m919v3.htm
http://th2chips.freeservers.com/m919/unoff/m919.html

To really slow down the CPU, you have to disable L1 and L2 cache in the BIOS settings. If this isn't slow enough, you can lower the FSB speed of the motherboard - look at the jumpers settings - now you have 33MHz FSB. You could go down to 25MHz and with 2X multi you'd have a slow 486DX2-50. With L1 and L2 caches disabled it would be really slow. You'll have to test it tho.

Thank you SO much for this information! When I'm home tonight I'm going to see if if can play some of those too-fast DOS games with the cache's disabled - crossing my fingers it'll work and I don't have to seek out yet another computer to do what I want it to do.

If that works I'll then look into Mo'Slow some more. (anybody PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong here...) Mo'Slow can disable those same caches just like the BIOS can, right? But from the command line? So I can write a little batch file to run Mo'Slow before a game, start the game, then turn off once I exit the game (I think I can do this at least).

You could probably pickup a DX-33 or DX2-66 CPU for peanuts on ebay

yup according to the identification and documents found by kixs and assuming they're correct (I didn't check), you're probably better off buying a 486DX-33 off ebay for 15 bucks, swap both computer cases to have the Turbo button on the 486 as it will be most useful there - your motherboard apparently has turbo switch pins according to docs. It's also a socket3, it supports both 3.3V and 5V and would be fine with a DX-33. Then it's just a matter of jumpers config for both voltage and cpu clock and if you need help with that just ask around here 😀

Haven't used mo'slo in decades but with a dx-33, a turbo switch, and the ability to disable caches in BIOS when required you should be pretty much good to go without the need for software.

GigAHerZ wrote on 2020-03-06, 11:32:

Woah, do i see it correctly? A socket 3 motherboard with COAST module? 😮

Nope, it's an M919 with a proprietary (asynch, not PLB) cache module. That's the giveaway that it's an M919 actually. There were other 486-era boards with cache slots, but none were as common as the M919.

The gifts keep on coming! Opened up the keyboard and it's a brand spankin' new Magitronic FK-2001 (seen these sold under Focus brand as well - I don't know which is the OEM manufacturer). Think these are supposed to have "White Alps Mechanical Switches" in them? (non-super loud bucking springs at least). I have a Model M I'll be using, but I do like the Dell QuietKey I have too...

kixs wrote on 2020-03-06, 18:36:

There are many revisions of M919 - you have V3.4B/F which is one of the latest or even the last revision. Some revisions had socketed cache chips. Some had fake cache chips soldered on the board. In my opinion this is a very nice VIP (Vesa, ISA, Pci) board to have.

I thought you were actually talking in generalities when you called this a "VIP" motherboard - but that's what they actually call it! The guy slipped in the manual for it into another box and I found it (complete pics are in the Imgur album in my first post if they help anybody):

Does anybody happen to know if I can switch the motherboard's from case to case? I started a new topic on how to slow this 100mhz down and think I'm going to need that turbo button to slow down the 100mhz, so I wanted to move it into the case the 200mhz is in now since it has a turbo button (but if anybody can chime in on that topic I'm all ears - have no clue what I'm doing 🤣).