VOGONS


Yamaha TG-100 / TG-300 and MT-32 mode

Topic actions

First post, by ras2a

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Just wondering if picking one of these up is a viable alternative to the MT-32 as it supports something called CM mode...?

If so, wondered if anyone had done any recordings of, say, for example, Monkey Island, to show how close (or not) the TG-100/300 in MT-32 mode is to a real MT-32...

Thanks folks

Reply 3 of 21, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
daikatana_ wrote on 2020-06-03, 19:18:

And two more, Gabriel Knight and Space Quest 1.

Sorry to tell, but these are bad choices to test MT-32 emulation of TG-300. Even Roland SC-55's MT-32 emulation sounds wrong with these games since they use custom instruments (uploaded by SySex messages at start) that only native LA synths (MT-32, CM-32/64) support. So MT-32 emulation even in theory is limited to titles that use only standard instruments.
So you should test with games that do not use custom instruments. Monkey Island 2, Space Quest 1, etc. are definitely not one of them.
Here's a list of games that you could try:

Leisure Suit Larry 2,
Legend of Kyrandia 1 (except for one instrument),
King's Quest IV,
Budokan, Ultima VI,
Bad Blood,
Simon the Sorcerer,
Loom,
Monkey Island 1,
Dune,
KGB/Conspiracy,
Spellcasting 101: Sorcerers Get All The Girls,
Spellcasting 201: The Sorcerer's Appliance,
Timequest,
Gateway,
Spellcasting 301: Spring Break,
Eric the Unready,
Gateway 2 - Homeworld,
Companions of Xanth,
Death Gate,
Superhero League of Hoboken

Besides it's not enough to simply select MT-32 Midi in games and play on your TG-100 to test its MT-32 emulation. First you should switch the device into MT-32 compatibility mode. There is a Midi file released by Roland that does this switch:
download/file.php?id=66243

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
VST Midi Driver Midi Mapper

Reply 4 of 21, by ras2a

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Thanks a lot guys, do appreciate that. Does sound like the only way to have MT-32 sound that is authentic is to either use MUNT or buy a real MT-32 / CM-32 etc...

Reply 5 of 21, by SuperDeadite

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Tg100 can be switched to CM mode via the on screen menu. It sounds quite terrible though. TG100 is a fun tiny GM module to play with though if you get one cheap.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 6 of 21, by Salient

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
SuperDeadite wrote on 2020-06-04, 03:01:

Tg100 can be switched to CM mode via the on screen menu. It sounds quite terrible though. TG100 is a fun tiny GM module to play with though if you get one cheap.

I kind of like my TG100's low-fi 12bit soundquality and still it's not half as bad as a lot of the wavetable daughterboards out there.

MIDI comparison website: << Wavetable.nl >>
(Always) looking for: Any Wavetable daughterboard, MIDI Module (GM/GS/XG)

Reply 7 of 21, by yawetaG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
ras2a wrote on 2020-06-03, 21:57:

Thanks a lot guys, do appreciate that. Does sound like the only way to have MT-32 sound that is authentic is to either use MUNT or buy a real MT-32 / CM-32 etc...

Which is logical since all PCM-based modules simply emulate MT-32 through their internal banks of sampled presets and lack the LA synthesizing ability of the MT-32...

Reply 8 of 21, by derSammler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

You can also buy a Roland RA-50, which is basically a CM32 inside. They are quite a bit cheaper.

Reply 9 of 21, by daikatana_

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2020-06-03, 20:00:
daikatana_ wrote on 2020-06-03, 19:18:

And two more, Gabriel Knight and Space Quest 1.

Sorry to tell, but these are bad choices to test MT-32 emulation of TG-300. Even Roland SC-55's MT-32 emulation sounds wrong with these games since they use custom instruments (uploaded by SySex messages at start) that only native LA synths (MT-32, CM-32/64) support. So MT-32 emulation even in theory is limited to titles that use only standard instruments.
So you should test with games that do not use custom instruments. Monkey Island 2, Space Quest 1, etc. are definitely not one of them.

You're right, but that's what I had at the time of the recording. So, I couldn't try any other game you listed. Besides, he wanted some examples of MT-32 emulation and these games should be included as well. And of course, I switched the module to the emulation mode first.

However, it doesn't sound that bad. If you don't have MT-32, TG100 is better than a piss in the eye.

Last edited by daikatana_ on 2020-06-04, 11:55. Edited 1 time in total.

Game MIDI soundtracks

Retro games and HW reviews

Reply 10 of 21, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

IMHO, just use a Raspberry Pi with soundcard that's running munt or another sutiable synth. A real MT-32 isn't the best choice in most cases, even.
Games that were meant to support the LAPC-I are actually expecting a CM-32L, not an MT-32.
The extra effects may be used in a subtle manner, but they were often used.
From what I remember, Wonderland (Magnetic Scrolls) used the sounds of water when standing on a bridge, for example.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 11 of 21, by ras2a

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Thanks again guys, I do bow to your knowledge on this stuff. I mat end up with MUNT for MT-32 / CM-32 etc... not practical for me to buy all of those units. I might check out the RA-50, however.

Cheers dudes

Reply 12 of 21, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
derSammler wrote on 2020-06-04, 06:53:

You can also buy a Roland RA-50, which is basically a CM32 inside. They are quite a bit cheaper.

Thanks a lot dude..... now I have an RA-50 on the way.

Are there any other devices you know of besides these that have full MT-32 compatibility?
MT-100
RA-50
LAPC-I
CM-32L
CM-64
CM-32LN
CM-500
LAPC-N

Edit:
According to the Roland download site for the MT-32 to General MIDI patch page, these should be MT-32 compatible as well:
D-5
D-10
D-110
D-20

https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/ … c-a4097dfe1142/

Last edited by cyclone3d on 2020-06-05, 05:33. Edited 2 times in total.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 13 of 21, by yawetaG

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
ras2a wrote on 2020-06-04, 21:32:

Thanks again guys, I do bow to your knowledge on this stuff. I mat end up with MUNT for MT-32 / CM-32 etc... not practical for me to buy all of those units. I might check out the RA-50, however.

Cheers dudes

Just FYI in case you consider other modules:

DO NOT buy a Roland D-70 or MV-30 (desktop D70) if you want MT-32. Despite the D-70 name and some of the promotional material announcing it as "Super LA", it has nothing whatsoever to do with the MT-32 and friends or any of the other LA synthesizers (Roland D-series). Instead, it is an almost fully editable U-220 descendant (rompler) that was meant to be called the U-50, but was renamed D-70 for marketing purposes. Its MT-32 bank emulates the MT-32 sound set using the internal samples, like many other romplers.
Note to people who notice it has a GM bank (not named as such): Only 8 MIDI channels are supported for the sound module section.

Reply 14 of 21, by derSammler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-05, 05:11:

Are there any other devices you know of besides these that have full MT-32 compatibility?

Yes, there was another one from Roland with a built-in sequencer using some odd disk format (QD or something). Can't remember the model of that, though. I'll post here once I remember.

btw, once you get your RA-50, replace the internal battery (it's a CR2032) and then press MIDI, User Program 7, and set "Panel Program Map" to "Same as MT-32".

Reply 15 of 21, by ras2a

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
derSammler wrote on 2020-06-05, 08:05:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-05, 05:11:

Are there any other devices you know of besides these that have full MT-32 compatibility?

Yes, there was another one from Roland with a built-in sequencer using some odd disk format (QD or something). Can't remember the model of that, though. I'll post here once I remember.

btw, once you get your RA-50, replace the internal battery (it's a CR2032) and then press MIDI, User Program 7, and set "Panel Program Map" to "Same as MT-32".

Nice one! Wan't that one the MT-100 or MT-200 etc... can't quite recall

Reply 16 of 21, by derSammler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Probably the MT-100, yes. So cyclone3d's list should be complete then.

Reply 17 of 21, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
derSammler wrote on 2020-06-05, 08:22:

Probably the MT-100, yes. So cyclone3d's list should be complete then.

Yeah, the MT-100 is the MT-32 (new version) with the sequencer.

The MT-200 is like an SC-55 with a sequencer.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 18 of 21, by daikatana_

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-05, 05:11:
derSammler wrote on 2020-06-04, 06:53:

You can also buy a Roland RA-50, which is basically a CM32 inside. They are quite a bit cheaper.

Thanks a lot dude..... now I have an RA-50 on the way.

Could you please record something after it arrives? I wonder how it sounds.

Game MIDI soundtracks

Retro games and HW reviews