Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby collector » 2006-10-18 @ 00:04

The errors are not exactly the same, even for the same file. Keep in mind that this is 64 bit Vista. I don't know if it works on 32 bit Vista.

That's cool about the input (keyboard), I figured that it was because of early stage of development.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 08:17

This could be really bad. It might be that tricks I'm using don't work for 64bit Vista.

Sorry, one more test if you don't mind: does v0.1 of VDos32 fail with HW.exe on your computer?
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 08:40

Actually, don't worry to try v0.1. I can see that it will fail in the same way.

It looks like NtSetInformationProcessFn with method ProcessLdtInformation isn't supported on 64bit Vista. This could be a disaster for VDos32. :depressed:
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 09:10

Here's a new version that might tell us more about the failure.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Zebius » 2006-10-18 @ 09:31

Hi Paul!
I've just tried your programs on Vista RC2 32-bit.

v.0.2 - intro movies OK, main menu OK, no response to mouse or keyboard, so there is not possible to start playing
v.0.3 - intro OK, keyboard working :) I started new game and it run OK, but trying to change resolution by F2 crashed the game.

Both versions run in window only, no sound.

It seems to be a good start for making TR1 Vista compatible, keep up good work.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 12:08

Thanks. Ah, so all is well for 32bit Vista. But it wont be long and everything will have moved to 64bit. So if I can't solve the problems there, VDos32 will be useless. :sad:
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Kaminari » 2006-10-18 @ 12:51

OT: I wonder what's the commercial strategy behind releasing two soon-to-be-incompatible versions of the same OS (besides earning some quick cash, that is).
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Zebius » 2006-10-18 @ 13:48

Paul, we need such a program for 32 bit Vista. :)
I think the most people will stick with 32-bit OS version due to compatibility reasons. Unless Microsoft will start to sell 64-bit Vista with VirtualPC and Win 98SE build-in. ;)

I tried running TR1 with sound on VDos32, but it crashed immediately, giving error "Unimplemented int 31h: ax = 0000h', but it is probably due to no sound support in VDos32 yet.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 14:18

Interesting. I'd imagine it will depend on which version the big suppliers choose, but they may pick 32bit for compatibility, as you say. In any case, I'd imagine there is some way around the 64bit problem. I just need to be able to set up local descriptors. Windows doesn't use them for anything, and so on most versions seems to let apps do what they like with them.

Sound, yeah VDos32 is just scratching the surface of what a DOS environment consiste of. Actually, sound support is a bit scary. I'm hoping I can link into VDMSound somehow.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 14:19

kekko wrote:Hi,

do you plan to keep it closed source?
Thanks.

I think probably yes. I may sell it for a few dollars, like Glidos. Unsure as yet.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby DosFreak » 2006-10-18 @ 14:35

Sounds like your recreating the wheel.....(DosBox being the wheel).
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 14:56

I thought DosBox was pure emulation. VDos32 lets the CPU execute the code most of the time. Maybe I've misunderstood how DosBox works.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby DosFreak » 2006-10-18 @ 15:04

No your right. I'm just wondering how many old computers that cannot run TR1 well in DosBox will be using Vista.

Need to get in touch with gulikoza and see how well Glide performs in DosBox nowadays.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 15:28

Yeah, I'd imagine DosBox TR1 performance would be better still with Glide support because a lot of the work would go out into the Glide wrapper.

Anyway, VDos32 will never be a competitor of DosBox: it will never handle realmode programs.

The two main driving forces were, I thought "Its 32bit code. Why not just run it?", and had to give it a try; plus I wanted a DOS environment I completely understood so that I could integrate with Glidos. Even with DosBox having Glide support, I need to keep the texture mapping abilities of Glidos alive for the Tombraider Xtra project. Otherwise all the work of Matthew and Co will have been wasted.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby collector » 2006-10-18 @ 17:42

I tried the first version with the same results. Here is what I get with the new version. it is the same regardless of what executable.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 17:48

Magic collector. Thanks. That's what I thought: attempts to create an LDT entry are failing. Maybe that error number will tell me something.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 17:55

STATUS_NOT_IMPLEMENTED :sad:

Not altogether surprising as it was probably used by ntvdm and not much else, plus it would have probably taken special effort to make it work in a 64bit environment.

I expect there are ways around it at the kernel level, but no easy way I fear.

I suppose there's some chance that some commonly used program needs it and it will get implemented in time.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby collector » 2006-10-18 @ 17:57

Perhaps that is why MS dropped 16 bit support for 64 bit Windows.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby ChaosFish » 2006-10-18 @ 18:06

I also get that under Vista64. Btw I have all UAP and driver signing (and all that shi') disabled.
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Re: Breakthrough in "Hello World program" technology

Postby Glidos » 2006-10-18 @ 18:28

collector wrote:Perhaps that is why MS dropped 16 bit support for 64 bit Windows.


No, LDTs are still in the 64bit CPUs. In fact you can still run 16bit code. What is completely unavailable in 64bit is the V86 mode that gives realmode addressing. That's why ntvdm wont work anymore. That's also why VDos32 will only ever target 32bit programs.

I'm not trying to do anything the CPU wont allow, but it looks like the Windows API that made it easy to do has gone.
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