WarhammerDarkOmen wrote on 2024-08-14, 15:09:

Pentium 100
96MB RAM (going to reduce this to 16MB or under)

That's really a nice retro rig. 😃 IMHO you don't need to reduce RAM to 16MB or less unless you want to eliminate the possibility of dual-boot with Win9x. I'd say 64MB would be a sweet spot for dual-boot rig, being the cacheable upper limit for most consumer-grade 430 series chipset (FX, VX, and TX); only the professional-grade 430HX could utilize up to 512MB. With 64MB you can run Win98SE with reasonable speed, although probably not suitable for the latest games of Win9x era.

Demolition-Man wrote on 2024-08-14, 18:38:

Not that many games are speed sensitive.

I learned that recently as my past experiences were quite different: Railroad Tycoon (original) and JetFighter II had screen tearing, while F-15 Strike Eagle III had "landing bug" i.e. your plane stayed 3 feet above the runway even if you've shut down the engines so the mission could not be accomplished. Those were minor bugs that were not even listed in CPU speed sensitive games but still annoying.

That speed sensitive games list is both highly incomplete and in some cases, inaccurate.

It really could use an overhaul.

That's really a nice retro rig. 😃 IMHO you don't need to reduce RAM to 16MB or less unless you want to eliminate the possibility of dual-boot with Win9x. I'd say 64MB would be a sweet spot for dual-boot rig, being the cacheable upper limit for most consumer-grade 430 series chipset (FX, VX, and TX); only the professional-grade 430HX could utilize up to 512MB. With 64MB you can run Win98SE with reasonable speed, although probably not suitable for the latest games of Win9x era.

Thank you! This machine is going to be purely MS DOS as i have a Windows 9x machine already. So I'm guessing purely MS DOS would be best suited to 16MB or less? Or would 64MB/32MB still be ok? saves me buying anymore sticks.

WarhammerDarkOmen wrote on 2024-08-16, 11:55:

Thank you! This machine is going to be purely MS DOS as i have a Windows 9x machine already. So I'm guessing purely MS DOS would be best suited to 16MB or less? Or would 64MB/32MB still be ok? saves me buying anymore sticks.

64MB/32MB would still be okay.

Perfect thanks, any suggestions for the best DOS games to try once it's setup? I'm open to trying any type.

WarhammerDarkOmen wrote on 2024-08-13, 22:26:

I am looking for the late 80's early 90's stuff ... I missed out of the MS DOS era of gaming (although i did have access to multiple DOS machines when i was a kid, just no games) so i'd like to explore this era i missed out on.

I am going to take a completely different angle than the other replies:

I suggest to focus only on DOS games from ~1990 onward. For that, a Pentium MMX would be a good choice.

Almost all games before 1990 are way better on other systems. You don't want to play stuff like silent service 1 on a PC. Atari ST, Amiga are usually better choices and more representative of the state of gaming then.

WarhammerDarkOmen wrote on 2024-08-16, 11:55:

Thank you! This machine is going to be purely MS DOS as i have a Windows 9x machine already. So I'm guessing purely MS DOS would be best suited to 16MB or less? Or would 64MB/32MB still be ok? saves me buying anymore sticks.

DOS Games suited to a Pentium 100 won't use more than 16MB of RAM. 32 or 64 MB won't hurt anything, but also not be of much benefit.

WarhammerDarkOmen wrote on 2024-08-16, 12:02:

Perfect thanks, any suggestions for the best DOS games to try once it's setup? I'm open to trying any type.

Here are a handful of suggestions from about 1990 to 1995. These should be ideal for a Pentium 100 system. Its sweet spot will be gaming from 1993 to 1995 or so.

• Blackthorne
• Cannon Fodder
• Command & Conquer
• Dark Forces
• Day of the Tentacle
• Descent
• Doom
• Doom II
• Epic Pinball
• Full Throttle
• Heretic
• Hexen
• One Must Fall: 2097
• Sam and Max Hit the Road
• The Secret of Monkey Island
• SimCity 2000
• Syndicate
• Terminal Velocity
• TIE Fighter
• Transport Tycoon Deluxe
• Warcraft
• Warcraft II
• X-COM: UFO Defense
• X-Wing

Thank you! Can't wait to give it a go 😁

Have fun! 😀

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-16, 13:02:

DOS Games suited to a Pentium 100 won't use more than 16MB of RAM. 32 or 64 MB won't hurt anything, but also not be of much benefit.

Seconded. Few DOS games demanded CPU ≥ 100MHz or RAM ≥ 16MB as minimal system requirements (enjoyable or maxed-out specs were different stories). I only found the following few:

• Screamer Rally (1997), Pentium 100 MHz, 16 MB
• JetFighter: Full Burn (1998/07/08), Pentium 133 MHz, 16 MB
• The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard (1998/10/31), Pentium 166 MHz, 32 MB
• Battlecruiser 3000AD v2.0 (1998/12/31), Pentium 133 MHz, 16 MB

Similar past discussions on VOGONS:

Most demanding DOS game, resource wise?
"Demanding" MS-DOS games for a 1.4 GHz Pentium 3
most hardware demanding dos game?
1997 DOS games with high system requirements
Dos games that is too much for Pentium 133?

What are the DOS games that have problems if you have more than 16MB of RAM installed?

Grzyb wrote on 2024-08-17, 03:54:

What are the DOS games that have problems if you have more than 16MB of RAM installed?

Very useful thread, thanks! 😃

Thanks for all the insights all this information is very helpful!

Had to create a new account as my old one i forgot the password and no longer have the email for it.

The machine arrived, its pretty worn, certainly seen better days but overall for my purposes i'm very happy.

So, first surprise was it's actually a Pentium 166Mhz so a little higher clock than expected.

Thankfully though due to the info here I can slow it down so thats no issue if/when needed. Turns out there was a Turbo button but no header to connect it to like you guys said so... that sucks.

The original system builder's label was coming off but i replaced it with something i felt was appropriate...

Fitted my Sound Blaster AWE64

Noticed this machine actually has a ATI 3D Rage II + DVD card in it! I wasn't expecting a 3D accelerator. I presume this card will be fine with DOS? and give me a little head room for 3D if i ever needed it?

The mainboard is really nice, it's a Soyo SY-5VD. I noticed it has SD RAM slots and EDO RAM slots. Is there any point in putting SD RAM in over EDO? I know SD RAM is faster but is there any point in my use case?

Also put the CF card reader in there, the hard disk did load up Windows 98 flawlessly and actually sounds extremely healthy for it's age but i do love the ease of transfer with a CF card.

I've got MS DOS ready to go on it but sadly lost my 8GB CF card so i've ordered a 4GB card and im waiting on that now. I forgot about MS-DOS max partition size of 2000mb so 4GB is plenty (2 partitions)

I also gave it a seriously good clean as this has clearly been used in a working enviroment most or all of it's life and it was filthy. I'm glad to say it's now cleaned up (as best as i can at least) and ready to go. The case is nice too it's a small form factor which is a plus.

Crinale0 wrote on 2024-08-19, 14:13:

I've got MS DOS ready to go on it but sadly lost my 8GB CF card so i've ordered a 4GB card and im waiting on that now. I forgot about MS-DOS max partition size of 2000mb so 4GB is plenty (2 partitions)

Note that there's hardly any advantage of DOS 6.22 compared to DOS 7.10 (a.k.a. Windows 9x with BootGUI=0), and the latter allows for larger partitions...

Oh thats good to know.

Sadly though, the machine has decided to die. It was fine but i had to remove the floppy disk as it didnt work and i had a spare outside. I did the swap over which part of that involved removing the motherboard tray out of the case.

Did all of that started it up and its completely dead. No POST, no beep codes, nothing. What is with this!? I'm so disappointed i am trying so hard to get into this hobby but the hardware just seems to die on me if i even so much as fart in the wrong direction.

I've left it off unplugged with the CMOS cleared but i doubt that will do anything. This old hardware is just crap or i have a vendetta against me. I've never had anything like it in the 1000's of PC's i've built over the years.

Crinale0 wrote on 2024-08-19, 18:45:

Did all of that started it up and its completely dead. No POST, no beep codes, nothing. What is with this!?

Does the AT PSU spin it's own fan?

Why did you have to remove the mainboard?

ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-19, 18:59:

Crinale0 wrote on 2024-08-19, 18:45:

Did all of that started it up and its completely dead. No POST, no beep codes, nothing. What is with this!?

Does the AT PSU spin it's own fan?

Why did you have to remove the mainboard?

I had to remove it to get to the other side of the floppy disk tray, I just stripped down the entire machine and rebuilt it clearing out any dust or grime i could find. I also reseated the CPU as that sounded a little crunchy for lack of a better word. Tried to start it up with no RAM to try and force a beep code and i got one!

I'm pleased to say after carefully putting it all back together it is now working again, i just tried to install DOS but my second floppy disk is not reading correctly so it's onward with CD's from here onward.

Regarding windows 9x in a MS DOS form, where do you put nogui=0 ? autoexec. bat?

Crinale0 wrote on 2024-08-19, 19:43:

Regarding windows 9x in a MS DOS form, where do you put nogui=0 ? autoexec. bat?

In the hidden file MSDOS.SYS
replace "BootGUI=1" with "BootGUI=0"
you can also add "Logo=0"

Thank you!