songoffall wrote on 2024-12-22, 13:51:

But when both cards were set at the same 16-bit color, I also remember getting a much better image, especially in smoke and other such stuff, with the Voodoo3, than with TNT2. Tangibly better.

There's an Alpha Blending setting in the driver that can be set to "Sharp" or "Smooth". The latter can make smoke and fire effects look a bit nicer, at the cost of producing undesired rainbow patterns in certain cases.

This can be especially interesting for games that only support 16-bit colors like Thief 1 & 2.

Right, time to bring this pic out. Kyro at the right is the most ideal 16bpp rendering you could have, but that chip has other achilles heels (no depth buffer, tile vs buffer effects etc). The filters aren't going to make the left two blobs look like the Kyro because there's going to be color bleed happening from the process putting a purple halo around everything. The leftmost blob is achievable on V3 with the alpha blend quality setting (both cards can do either, but these are their driver's defaults).

leileilol wrote on 2024-12-22, 14:17:

Right, time to bring this pic out. Kyro at the right is the most ideal 16bpp rendering you could have, but that chip has other achilles heels (no depth buffer, tile vs buffer effects etc). The filters aren't going to make the left two blobs look like the Kyro because there's going to be color bleed happening from the process putting a purple halo around everything. The leftmost blob is achievable on V3 with the alpha blend quality setting (both cards can do either, but these are their driver's defaults).

Tbh Kyro does look quite amazing. Never held a PowerVR GPU in my hands.

But my point still stands; it's noticeably better than what TNT2 does. The Voodoo 1/2 result does look quite terrible, but those cards exist in a different context altogether.

When I'm rocket-jumping around a map, I'm not going to notice most of what you can show me in a screenshot. I need the frames to keep coming. I used Voodoo cards back in the day, so I get the nostalgic vibe, but for my retro builds today, Geforce cards deliver the goods. The Voodoos will stay in the closet until I find some use for them.

I looked around and found a Slot1 motherboard with AGP. Well, the manual says it's a "Solt 1" motherboard. With the slowest possible P3 chipset. - VIA Apollo Pro +. Put a 500MHz Katmai Pentium III on it. The motherboard came with a pleasant surprise attached to it: Creative Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value (CT4330). I know absolutely nothing about this card except that it is essentially a cut-down AWE64 with no SIMM slots. I have no idea whether it has OPL or not. But it's my first ISA Creative card. So I added it to the board. When I get a BX motherboard, I'll go with Aureal Vortex.

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-23, 16:20:

I looked around and found a Slot1 motherboard with AGP. Well, the manual says it's a "Solt 1" motherboard. With the slowest possible P3 chipset. - VIA Apollo Pro +. Put a 500MHz Katmai Pentium III on it. The motherboard came with a pleasant surprise attached to it: Creative Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value (CT4330). I know absolutely nothing about this card except that it is essentially a cut-down AWE64 with no SIMM slots. I have no idea whether it has OPL or not. But it's my first ISA Creative card. So I added it to the board. When I get a BX motherboard, I'll go with Aureal Vortex.

Honestly a P3-500 or better with a 440BX board would be a great match for a V3. Sure you can try and max out the CPU with like an S478/SocA (note: the motherboard would need to have universal AGP support), but you won't really need that for the titles where V3 would shine IMO.

The problem with CT4330 is that IIRC it has neither SIMM slots nor a connector for an AWE64 memory expansion module (you can get a new made these days or something like this). That memory is useful for MIDI soundbanks which are honestly the highlight of AWE cards — there are lots of awesome banks to choose from. Still should have SB16 compatibility, but CQM instead of OPL3. Not a huge deal, you have to really be a fan of FM music to care about this, and IMO it's an acquired taste .

jheronimus wrote on 2024-12-23, 17:25:

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-23, 16:20:

I looked around and found a Slot1 motherboard with AGP. Well, the manual says it's a "Solt 1" motherboard. With the slowest possible P3 chipset. - VIA Apollo Pro +. Put a 500MHz Katmai Pentium III on it. The motherboard came with a pleasant surprise attached to it: Creative Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value (CT4330). I know absolutely nothing about this card except that it is essentially a cut-down AWE64 with no SIMM slots. I have no idea whether it has OPL or not. But it's my first ISA Creative card. So I added it to the board. When I get a BX motherboard, I'll go with Aureal Vortex.

Honestly a P3-500 or better with a 440BX board would be a great match for a V3. Sure you can try and max out the CPU with like an S478/SocA (note: the motherboard would need to have universal AGP support), but you won't really need that for the titles where V3 would shine IMO.

The problem with CT4330 is that IIRC it has neither SIMM slots nor a connector for an AWE64 memory expansion module (you can get a new made these days or something like this). That memory is useful for MIDI soundbanks which are honestly the highlight of AWE cards — there are lots of awesome banks to choose from. Still should have SB16 compatibility, but CQM instead of OPL3. Not a huge deal, you have to really be a fan of FM music to care about this, and IMO it's an acquired taste .

I think at this point in time ESFM on ESS cards is my favorite FM synth, even over OPL2/OPL3. I can live without loading sound banks.

As for maxing out 😀) I don't think it's my goal, my plan is to essentially spec it up to my friend's PC in 1999-2000, which I think was a P3-733 with Voodoo3. I do want a BX chipset and PC133 RAM though, and I have to restock on SDRAM - I have enough FPM, EDO, DDR1 and DDR2 to last me a lifetime, but only a few mismatched SDRAM modules, and those are PC100. 384 or 512mb, preferably.

I have two Socket A builds at this moment, my main one is Athlon XP 2000+ on an nForce chipset, and I'd rather put a GeForce Ti4200 on that one and play Morrowind. The other build is work in progress, I'm planning to finally try ATI cards - my first real GPU was a GeForce2 MX200, and the last one I bought was a GeForce GTX 1650, so I guess I missed out on a lot of ATI/AMD goodness in the meantime. I remember the drivers being quite horrible in the second half of 2000s though.

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-23, 20:47:

As for maxing out 😀) I don't think it's my goal, my plan is to essentially spec it up to my friend's PC in 1999-2000, which I think was a P3-733 with Voodoo3. I do want a BX chipset and PC133 RAM though, and I have to restock on SDRAM - I have enough FPM, EDO, DDR1 and DDR2 to last me a lifetime, but only a few mismatched SDRAM modules, and those are PC100. 384 or 512mb, preferably.

Word of caution, P3-733 is a 133 MHz FSB chip. 440BX boards don't fully support it, meaning the AGP bus will run at 89 MHz (out of spec, since standard is 66 MHz). Lots of people do it though, but it's just a tiny bit trickier than running a 100 MHz chip.

jheronimus wrote on 2024-12-23, 21:34:

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-23, 20:47:

As for maxing out 😀) I don't think it's my goal, my plan is to essentially spec it up to my friend's PC in 1999-2000, which I think was a P3-733 with Voodoo3. I do want a BX chipset and PC133 RAM though, and I have to restock on SDRAM - I have enough FPM, EDO, DDR1 and DDR2 to last me a lifetime, but only a few mismatched SDRAM modules, and those are PC100. 384 or 512mb, preferably.

Word of caution, P3-733 is a 133 MHz FSB chip. 440BX boards don't fully support it, meaning the AGP bus will run at 89 MHz (out of spec, since standard is 66 MHz). Lots of people do it though, but it's just a tiny bit trickier than running a 100 MHz chip.

Thanks for the warning 😀) so essentially it overclocks the bus multipliers to support those CPUs. Then I guess I'll go for a P3-700, and leave 133 chips for an i815 build.

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-24, 03:27:

Thanks for the warning 😀) so essentially it overclocks the bus multipliers to support those CPUs. Then I guess I'll go for a P3-700, and leave 133 chips for an i815 build.

Nice. I am pulling together parts for a 700Mhz PIII Voodoo 3500 build. The 700Mhz PIII CPU is very slightly faster than the CPUs the V3 3500 was reviewed with back in the day. So should do well.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-12-24, 06:12:

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-24, 03:27:

Thanks for the warning 😀) so essentially it overclocks the bus multipliers to support those CPUs. Then I guess I'll go for a P3-700, and leave 133 chips for an i815 build.

Nice. I am pulling together parts for a 700Mhz PIII Voodoo 3500 build. The 700Mhz PIII CPU is very slightly faster than the CPUs the V3 3500 was reviewed with back in the day. So should do well.

Keep us updated on how it goes and any findings you get along the way 😀) there's still a while until January 7th when I get mine.

Also, if you need parts for your build, I have a box of PCI/ISA cards I don't mind sharing.

For 440BX a PIII 900 is a good compromise without risk of instability. A voodoo card is good for early/mid Windows 98 era games when D3D support was nonexistent. For late Windows 98 era games I prefer D3D.

Ideally 440BX/Coppermine + Voodoo3 + Vortex2.
Cheap alternative: SIS/VIA socket A board + Geode NX + SB Live!. (ECS K7S5A or K7S6A work great with Geodes).
Most of the games of interest I played on s754 Athlon64 + GeForce 6800 AGP (nGlide) + Audigy2 ZS. (GeForce 6800 runs great on nGlide, FX series is a bit underpowered in comparison).

Currently there are six Voodoo 4 4500's on eBay ranging from $350 to $1500. Also I wonder if the guy who manufactures custom V5 6000 cards using four surplus VSA-100 chips ever plans to make a custom V4 with a single VSA-100.

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-24, 07:26:

Keep us updated on how it goes and any findings you get along the way 😀) there's still a while until January 7th when I get mine.

Nice. I am sure it will be a great machine.

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-24, 07:26:

Also, if you need parts for your build, I have a box of PCI/ISA cards I don't mind sharing.

That's very kind of you. I think I have all the parts I need. Just have to decide what parts belong in which PC build. I want to cover a wide variety of
Intel/nVidia/3DFX builds. The main goal being that I should be able to play almost any game on at least one of them.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-12-24, 22:09:

Nice. I am sure it will be a great machine. […]
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songoffall wrote on 2024-12-24, 07:26:

Keep us updated on how it goes and any findings you get along the way 😀) there's still a while until January 7th when I get mine.

Nice. I am sure it will be a great machine.

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-24, 07:26:

Also, if you need parts for your build, I have a box of PCI/ISA cards I don't mind sharing.

That's very kind of you. I think I have all the parts I need. Just have to decide what parts belong in which PC build. I want to cover a wide variety of
Intel/nVidia/3DFX builds. The main goal being that I should be able to play almost any game on at least one of them.

I'm one step away from just packing some of my builds into 2u rack mount cases and sticking them into a rack to save space 😀)

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-25, 11:49:

I'm one step away from just packing some of my builds into 2u rack mount cases and sticking them into a rack to save space 😀)

Haha. I considered that. I have a storage area in my office that's almost the perfect size for a rack. I think the costs of racks and rack cases would amount to a lot money though. I have opted instead to use a mix of tower and horizontal cases. I will have 8 PCs in there plus my 19" CRT and mouse. The current plan is this:

1 = Psueodo 386/486 made from slowed down Pentium MMX and ISA graphics card.
2 = Pentium MMX with S3 Verge and Voodoo 1
3 = Pentium II 300Mhz, Riva 128, Voodoo 2
4 = Pentium III 550Mhz, TNT2 + Voodoo 2 SLI
5 = Pentium III 1Ghz, Geforce 2 GTS
6 = Pentium 4 3.4Ghz, Geforce 4600
7 = Core 2 Duo E6600, Geforce 6800
8 = Core 2 Quad QX9650, Geforce 8800 GTS 512 SLI

But it is still open to change.

Oh, and my 700Mhz PIII with Voodoo 3 will be in another of those Micro atx cases at the bottom of the tower. Will have to swap it for one of those when I want to use it.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-12-25, 14:18:

Haha. I considered that. I have a storage area in my office that's almost the perfect size for a rack. I think the costs of rack […]
Show full quote

songoffall wrote on 2024-12-25, 11:49:

I'm one step away from just packing some of my builds into 2u rack mount cases and sticking them into a rack to save space 😀)

Haha. I considered that. I have a storage area in my office that's almost the perfect size for a rack. I think the costs of racks and rack cases would amount to a lot money though. I have opted instead to use a mix of tower and horizontal cases. I will have 8 PCs in there plus my 19" CRT and mouse. The current plan is this:

The attachment 20241213_084415.jpg is no longer available

1 = Psueodo 386/486 made from slowed down Pentium MMX and ISA graphics card.
2 = Pentium MMX with S3 Verge and Voodoo 1
3 = Pentium II 300Mhz, Riva 128, Voodoo 2
4 = Pentium III 550Mhz, TNT2 + Voodoo 2 SLI
5 = Pentium III 1Ghz, Geforce 2 GTS
6 = Pentium 4 3.4Ghz, Geforce 4600
7 = Core 2 Duo E6600, Geforce 6800
8 = Core 2 Quad QX9650, Geforce 8800 GTS 512 SLI

But it is still open to change.

Great setup! I'm planning to build PC XT, 386, 486DX4, Pentium 1 systems. Atm my builds are:
1. Compaq Deskpro 2000 Pentium 2 300MHz/Matrox Mystique/ESS AudioDrive ISA + Aureal Vortex 2, needs a Voodoo2 to be complete.
2. The Pentium III 500MHz system I built for the Voodoo, although there were some... complications. I may have bricked the motherboard and might need to reprogram the BIOS chip.
3. Pentium 4 Northwood Socket 478, work in progress
4. Athlon XP 2000+/nForce2/Creative Audigy 2/GeForce4 MX440, needs to be upgraded to GeForce4 Ti4200
There's also two LGA775 computers for XP era gaming.

As for rack mounts, when new they do cost a lot, but when recycling stuff companies want to get rid of, it's often quite cheap. There's also people who get those old systems and sell them piece by piece, the case usually being one of the cheaper components.

Congratulations on your purchase!
Many of us in the west also missed out on Voodoo cards back when they were new and only discovering them now.
I had more fun than I should have trying games in glide for the first time, even games that didn't make the "games that look better in glide" list.
I used a P4 running Win98 when I got my first Voodoo 2, not ideal but whatever you have is good enough to try it out while waiting for the perfect build.