Update on the build....

Well smack me in the face. The AWE64-Gold did not meet all demands for a complete remake, so I downgraded the soundcard.
That's the short version of it all. The long is a bit strange.

I have had a great time getting the software installed and stuff like that. What annoied me, was that I could not really be satified with the Wavetable sound in Win98SE. I tried different settings regarding the MIDI setup in the control panel. Yet something was not quite in place here.
Windows games just sound like they should and no lack in performance eighter. The problem arose with some classic Dos gaming.
Doom2 and Duke3D just sounded awefull, compared to a MS-Dos-6.22 installation. Duke would just be playing some mudy sound when AWE32 was selected as the music card. And Doom2 was just plain low in volume. Something had to be done, I thought.

Now. I had this A-Open 320 something card (with some chrystal-something chip), wich I bought for SB-Link testing, that I had not been doing so far.
I have a SB-Live-Value too and a Creative Ensonic Audio-PCI card too. The Live is not my favorite when it comes to Win98 on SS7 platform.
(That one is reserved for more highend Win98 build's)

I tried the A-Open at first and it was decent in the Adlib playback, actually the best Adlib emulation that are not from Creative or the real deal.
The Wavetable/Midi section was plain awefull. Just some shitty flat sounding thing. And there was not any exotic settings eighter.
Then I tried the Ensonic-card from creative and taking in, that it is a stereo card (not multispeaker as Live cards), and setting it to 8mb samples, I was able to game some nice sounding Doom and Duke3D. What sucks is that the Adlib section just sucks big time.

When playing Midi-files in Windows, it sounded good. Actually great, taking the overall quality of the card.
And funny enough. The original build I had back then, was a build with a Creative PCI-128 card.
For the recreation of the original machine, I am now actually only running with a faster GFX and more Ram compared to the original.
NFS2000 and UT99 still runs just as fast with a PCI and not an ISA card, and 3D-Mark gives the same results.
When playing midi files with piano and strings, this card just sound good enough. (regarding soundcard-quality of that era)

Oh well... One can not get it all. As this is the best balace I can come up with when looking at software that are to be used.
I might go in search of a Yamaha card now. Anyone have any idea on what to look for?
As it has to be able to do good soundblaster emulation for a few late DOS-games and some good Midi capability.
It has to have a good soundquality when looking at noise and have good treble/bass response.
It has to be able to do stereo without any 3D/surround effect's and such.

Any suggestions on what PCI sound-card that I should look for now, to be able to get a better soundsystem?

One extra touch, is the case-badge. Between 1995 and 2009, I have had a really special case-badge.
Actually an old 80286-cpu, with the same dimensions as a real case badge.
I came about this cpu in 95, and used it since, because it was a dead cpu. Just a little funny thing.
Yesterday, I found it in my box with fan's, and reattached it to the case. I really thought that I have lost it.
Speaking of the case. I gave up looking for the original case. And have used a different case now.
Pictures will come..... 😀

I've heard good things about The YMF724 for DOS gaming inside Win98. OPL3, hardware-assisted XG MIDI and SBPro support. I've never used one myself though.

alexanrs wrote:

I've heard good things about The YMF724 for DOS gaming inside Win98. OPL3, hardware-assisted XG MIDI and SBPro support. I've never used one myself though.

Thanks. 😀

Now for the pictures of my new build. Not the correct case sadly.

Front of the machine. Looking ok. Mounted an extra drive (DVD)

The "case badge", wich is an actual Amd 80286 CPU.
One could say: "AMD-Inside (on the outside)".... Just joking around 😁

The inside of the beast. Extra harddrive, and a different PSU.

Look at those amp's on 3.3 and 5... 30A and the PSU-Fan is one of those 120mm. 😜

HDD-Cables. Managed nicely.

brostenen wrote:

The problem arose with some classic Dos gaming.
Doom2 and Duke3D just sounded awefull, compared to a MS-Dos-6.22 installation. Duke would just be playing some mudy sound when AWE32 was selected as the music card. And Doom2 was just plain low in volume. Something had to be done, I thought.

Strange and interesting. As I recently had some weird issues with an AWE64 myself (in this thread, I'm curious.

Do you mean that the same AWE64 Gold with the same settings produced different sound depending on the OS (DOS 6.22 vs Win98 SE)? And were you running Win98 Pure DOS, or a DOS prompt under Windows?

First I have to say love the case badge!
the Duke3d theme sounds terrible with the AWE, absolutely terrible! (well imho) but others are OKish but still not upto Yamaha/ Roland levels.
Doom on the otherhand music wise sounds ok.
Yamaha cards can be noisy, but then most cards of the era are. The drivers are horrible but once configured you don't need to see that mess again, and it emulates SB Pro not SB16 if that's an issue for you. I really don't mind them though.
Midi sounds great, true OPL and not many games really take advantage of SB16 anyway. They are cheep enough to take a gamble on as well.

dr_st wrote:

brostenen wrote:

The problem arose with some classic Dos gaming.
Doom2 and Duke3D just sounded awefull, compared to a MS-Dos-6.22 installation. Duke would just be playing some mudy sound when AWE32 was selected as the music card. And Doom2 was just plain low in volume. Something had to be done, I thought.

Strange and interesting. As I recently had some weird issues with an AWE64 myself (in this thread, I'm curious.

Do you mean that the same AWE64 Gold with the same settings produced different sound depending on the OS (DOS 6.22 vs Win98 SE)? And were you running Win98 Pure DOS, or a DOS prompt under Windows?

Yeah... Same card, same settings.
When I am speaking of MS-Dos it is pure Dos. No dos prompt or anything. Just MS-Dos-6.22 and not Win95/98/ME.
I am not considering them Dos at all, because the Dos used in these operating systems, are intertwined with the Windows invironment.
Though I am aware of the Dos layer deep down, that I can call by editing some file. It's just not real Dos for me.
The Dos layer does not feel right for me. Something is not quite in place regarding the Dos in Win95/98/ME.

Anyway...
It might have been the AWE64-Gold installation software that I have installed, that produces these issues.
On the other hand. I really like the 8mb sound-bank that I am using with my Creative Ensonic Audio-PCI card.
When selecting soundcard in Doom, I am using general midi. And music are not nearly as low compared to
the AWE64 Gold, this way. In my other K6-2-500 machine, I am using AWE64-Gold (I have 3 AWE64-Gold),
and this one is running fine and dandy, using the stock AWE64 drivers in MS-Dos-6.22.

chinny22 wrote:

First I have to say love the case badge! the Duke3d theme sounds terrible with the AWE, absolutely terrible! (well imho) but oth […]
Show full quote

First I have to say love the case badge!
the Duke3d theme sounds terrible with the AWE, absolutely terrible! (well imho) but others are OKish but still not upto Yamaha/ Roland levels.
Doom on the otherhand music wise sounds ok.
Yamaha cards can be noisy, but then most cards of the era are. The drivers are horrible but once configured you don't need to see that mess again, and it emulates SB Pro not SB16 if that's an issue for you. I really don't mind them though.
Midi sounds great, true OPL and not many games really take advantage of SB16 anyway. They are cheep enough to take a gamble on as well.

Thanks. Yeah... The badge is an example on what old dead hardware can be used for. 😀
So the choice of my card is actually pretty decent then? Must say that if a different sollution would include more noise, just for the sake of getting better Adlib support. Then that card is not really for this build. The era would be too early, when looking at the aim for this build's era.
I have this old P-133, with a SB16-Isa card, and a GUS-ACE installed. It is running on an Baby-AT board with MVP3 chipset, and if 386 class speed is needed, then i'll simply just disable some cache. Making that machine good and useable for really old and early Dos games.
(Well not that old games, as the 386 was in the late 80's for me)

brostenen wrote:

Yeah... Same card, same settings. When I am speaking of MS-Dos it is pure Dos. No dos prompt or anything. Just MS-Dos-6.22 and n […]
Show full quote

Yeah... Same card, same settings.
When I am speaking of MS-Dos it is pure Dos. No dos prompt or anything. Just MS-Dos-6.22 and not Win95/98/ME.
I am not considering them Dos at all, because the Dos used in these operating systems, are intertwined with the Windows invironment.
Though I am aware of the Dos layer deep down, that I can call by editing some file. It's just not real Dos for me.
The Dos layer does not feel right for me. Something is not quite in place regarding the Dos in Win95/98/ME.

You didn't quite answer my question, although I suspect, by extrapolating from the other things you said, that you did not run the AWE64 in the pure DOS mode of Windows 98 SE.

I am talking about what you get by booting with BootGUI=0 in MSDOS.SYS. This does not load any Windows modules, and keeps you in pure DOS.

If you get different results between this DOS and DOS 6.22, with the same card and the same Config.sys/Autoexec.bat settings, that would really surprise me.

Nope. Not running dosmode from Win98 at all. For that I am using MS-Dos-6.22
For settings, I am allways using IRQ:7, DMA:5, DMA:1, I/O:220 and 330.
The AWE is set at 620. Those are the settings that I am using for Dos software.
The only difference is that I am using eighter MS-Dos-6.22 or Win98SE.
As I have both operating systems on my hand, and I have 4 to 5 retro machines.

Installed some new parts in my baby here... K6-3-400, brand new unused SS7/Socket370 cooler with great airflow.
Then added a Voodoo2 card. Finally, I treated it with some new black PATA cables. Brand new, never opened.
This just gave me a little over 3200 in 3Dmark99, on the Matrox G400 in 800x600.

EDIT:
Well... I did say that I never wanted to go faster than a K6-2-500.
Yet the K6-3-400 somehow seems a bit more balanced and indeed faster.
The system is really stable and blazing fast for it's era. A really great machine now.
The only thing that puzzles me, is that the cooler is more cold now.
Perhaps it is the cooler, perhaps it is the cpu running at 100mhz below the K6-2.
It should be hotter, as the voltage is 2.4 and the K6-2 is a 2.2volt

you can make it colder still by polishing the bottom of the heatsink with sandpaper 😁

candle_86 wrote:

you can make it colder still by polishing the bottom of the heatsink with sandpaper 😁

Hehe...
That would be for the future upgrades. I just need to get a second Voodoo2 first.
That cooler is totally awesome. Keeps it so nice and cool. 😜
This machine are beginning to look like my dream-machine of that time, and not just some recreation.
I did the recreation. Now is the time to upgrade, like it is 1998 again. 😁

It's turning out very nice! I am like you on sound, that's why I am using two sound cards. The YMF718-S (Audician 32) has real OPL3 for all the DOS stuff and the Vortex2 handles all the Windows stuff including A3D for my favorite games Thief 1 and Thief 2. A3D with headphones, dark room, sitting alone and playing Thief is just awesome! I am really liking my Matrox G400!

Yeah. Matrox are a really great card. Love it, especially in this machine.
Thinking of testing out a geForce2 GTS to see how well it performs.
In the end, I think I will go back to Matrox and look for a G400-Max instead.
And finally get another Voodoo2 for some SLI action.

My baby has some V2-SLI now. Creative V2 8mb.
Works like a charm. UT99 fluid in 800x600.
The same goes for NFS-2K. This baby is almost done now.

brostenen wrote:

Yeah... Same card, same settings.

Here are some examples what the AWE64 Gold sounds like in Doom:

Doom Music Soundtrack AWE64 Gold

Remember that this card is not really General MIDI compatible under DOS. It has support for it, but doesn't work well. An external General MIDI device is the way to go.

squareguy wrote:

It's turning out very nice! I am like you on sound, that's why I am using two sound cards. The YMF718-S (Audician 32) has real OPL3 for all the DOS stuff and the Vortex2 handles all the Windows stuff including A3D for my favorite games Thief 1 and Thief 2. A3D with headphones, dark room, sitting alone and playing Thief is just awesome! I am really liking my Matrox G400!

I thought Thief doesn't support A3D? Did I receive wrong information?

EDIT: Works beautifully! Not sure who told me it doesn't support A3D. The sound is amazing. Right in the first room with someone running around in circles upstairs 😀

philscomputerlab wrote:

I thought Thief doesn't support A3D? Did I receive wrong information?

a3d supported in:
Thief: The Dark Project
Thief 2 Alpha Demo

not supported anymore in
Thief II: The Metal Age 😢 (DirectSound3D + EAX)

System Shock 2 is also nice with a3d 😀 (same engine)
You can hide in the shadows just like in Thief.

Thanks for clearing that up!

Build Update:

I forgot to post a picture of my Rig. Sorry for the bad image quality. It was late at night when I took it.

My Zitech machine is based on the following components.

Gigabyte GA-5AX.
Amd K6-III-400.
Startech.com SS7/370 cooler. (Fan370pro)
128mb Kingston PC-133. (to make shure it is absolutely stable)
Compaq TNT2-Ultra AGP, 32mb.
2 x Creative Voodoo2 SLI (8mb each)
Sillicon Image SIL0649 ATA 100 Raid Card.
Creative Ensoniq Audio-PCI sound card.
120gb Seagate ATA-133 HDD.
80gb Hitachi ATA-133 HDD.
3.5 inch Floppy Drive.
DVD-Burner and CD-Burner.

It has so far been a great jurney to get my long lost and sold Zitech computer back.
And I have pimped it, not only to get back to what I had, yet it is pimped into what I actually wanted to upgrade it to back in 1999.
This way, I have gotten exactly what I could not get back then. Because of the girlfriend I had back then.
Yeah... Woman again. The wrong ones keep you back from getting what you want.