Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 16:13:

Thanks for all info provided! Well i only have Pentium III motherboard, and i recently ordered Tualatan so i will stick with that and have no plans making any new configurations in a future. You gave me lot of food for thought. In your opinion will it be bad if I go with Radeon X series or 6800 or in my case most logic thing to go for would be GeForce 4/FX like few guys already stated to be my best choices?

Unless you want to play at very high resolutions like 1600x1200 with AA and AF cranked up, I wouldn't put an X800 card in that build.

Go for a GeForce 4 Ti4200 or Radeon 9600XT, as was suggested by others here.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-10-06, 16:31:

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 16:13:

Thanks for all info provided! Well i only have Pentium III motherboard, and i recently ordered Tualatan so i will stick with that and have no plans making any new configurations in a future. You gave me lot of food for thought. In your opinion will it be bad if I go with Radeon X series or 6800 or in my case most logic thing to go for would be GeForce 4/FX like few guys already stated to be my best choices?

Unless you want to play at very high resolutions like 1600x1200 with AA and AF cranked up, I wouldn't put an X800 card in that build.

Go for a GeForce 4 Ti4200 or Radeon 9600XT, as was suggested by others here.

My highest resolution i use is 1920x1080 on 40 inch TV screen in my dinning room. But very few games i can run that high. Its mostly 1280x 760 with my current GPU Asus 9250 GE 256MB. And thanks for all info provided.

The more powerful 98 compatible cards have more risk of incompatibility with older 98 games. Nvidia is really hit and miss with their later Win98 drivers, but you can get Geforce 6 and 7 to "work" in Windows 98. I would stay away from the Geforce FX series unless you find one really cheap. Its performance as a DX 9 card is a joke, and it can't use the earlier drivers for best game compatibility.

On the Ati side, the X800 and X850 card are supported by the late Win98 drivers, and I personally had much less bugs and annoyances with them, but YMMV.

My recommendation is to use a Geforce 4 or gf3 for a Win98 system, and a separate XP system with much more powerful hardware. DX8 games that run well on a ti4200 work fine in Windows 98, so you might not even need XP with that card.

Edit: but on a Tualatin build, DX9 games are not enjoyable, even if you can get them running. Low setting and 20fps is about what you can expect. You need faster hardware for XP.

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 16:01:

I waited to get into this hobby for years to be honest, but i had no opportunity to do so due to lifestyle obligations, no one […]
Show full quote

andre_6 wrote on 2024-10-06, 05:39:

I'm tempted to say that if you just got back into the hobby and are already making a Tualatin build, of all things, then you'll inevitably get a slower Pentium III or II for a "proper" Win98/DOS build later. Might as well come to terms with it now, maybe?

My 2 cents: You have a 1.4ghz Tualatin, just go for it, get a 9600XT and have a great time with Mafia, GTA III/Vice City, Max Payne, and everything else from that fantastic period and before. Install WinME (yes, really) and you'll still be able to scratch the DOS games itch via DOS window. Or Win2000 of course, which benchmarks a little under WinME, and with no DOS. You'll love it, it will feel satisfyingly fast and somehow still perfectly period correct.

And then when you're satisfied you'll inevitably still want that "proper" Win98 DOS etc., and then, also inevitably, an overpowered WinXP machine. And even then you might lust for a 486, just because... We've seen it time after time on these forums... just food for thought

I waited to get into this hobby for years to be honest, but i had no opportunity to do so due to lifestyle obligations, no one who was into such a thing (i`m the only one in my town and in whole country there are few dudes out there, consoles are more popular here and new computers). Before 2 years after i got some connections with few guys in my country, they literaly donated me this Pentium 3 as gift with solid motherboard for future updates. I wanted this from the start, and for older 98/DOS games if needed i will use some apps to slow it down if it runs bit faster then needed, the only concern is that it would be compatible and work well on the machine. Sadly i have no space were to put more old computers even if i would like to. This would be my only old configuration to work on and enjoy reconfigurating new parts etc.

Its not like i have too much money to waste on old computers and parts, i spare a lot for it, and cut corners as most of us make things happen, i just waited for such a long time for it (talked and think about it for such a long time), and for emotional and nostalgic reasons i making Pentium 3, which i want to make into pleasant experience with new mods available in future. I ordered with Tualatan, better heatsing and PCI USB 2.0 card with NEC chip. Via refused to work on my motherboard after few days of using it just stops respoding.

Kind regards.

No worries, if I could only have one retro PC it would be a Pentium III based machine as well, that's what I wanted when I got back around to this stuff. People around here are from all over the place, and clearly there are major differences between hardware price and availability from country to country. But I'll always reply from an optimistic perspective. I still have an inkling that you'll eventually stumble upon another build/freebie hardware combo even if by pure chance, like a Core2Duo or something. If that happens, when in doubt, just accept it even if you think you'll end up getting rid of it later along the way.

Reading your reply, I'd just get whatever's cheaper between a GF4200Ti, 9600XT or as a third alternative a FX5600 if really cheap. If the prices are all the same, +1 for 9600XT for me...

But anyway you'll do very well with the hardware you have already. Tualatins don't run that hot anyway, and with the beefy heatsink, big fan and the fan controller you'll probably get 25/30ºc at idle on Windows at 1500RPM, which is pretty quiet and cool. Socket 462/A coolers are total overkill for socket 370 stuff, which is great. Plus the three holes for the hooks will help spread the load around the socket clips given the increased height of the Tualatins. There are passive solutions for GPUs for the Nvidia or ATI cards from that era, if keeping the build very quiet is a high priority for you, sometimes they show up on the cheap if you want to explore that in the future. I have no idea if AliExpress has that type of stuff or just heatsink+fan combos. 9700/9800 Radeon are the ones that just can't do without active cooling for the reasons other explained

pixel_workbench wrote on 2024-10-06, 17:19:

The more powerful 98 compatible cards have more risk of incompatibility with older 98 games. Nvidia is really hit and miss with […]
Show full quote

The more powerful 98 compatible cards have more risk of incompatibility with older 98 games. Nvidia is really hit and miss with their later Win98 drivers, but you can get Geforce 6 and 7 to "work" in Windows 98. I would stay away from the Geforce FX series unless you find one really cheap. Its performance as a DX 9 card is a joke, and it can't use the earlier drivers for best game compatibility.

On the Ati side, the X800 and X850 card are supported by the late Win98 drivers, and I personally had much less bugs and annoyances with them, but YMMV.

My recommendation is to use a Geforce 4 or gf3 for a Win98 system, and a separate XP system with much more powerful hardware. DX8 games that run well on a ti4200 work fine in Windows 98, so you might not even need XP with that card.

Edit: but on a Tualatin build, DX9 games are not enjoyable, even if you can get them running. Low setting and 20fps is about what you can expect. You need faster hardware for XP.

Well, i`m mostly into rpg games, rts or point click for all gaming eras, so nothing too demanding i will not play on XP if i decide to test bit "newer" titles. So far i tested few games, and few shooters like Medal of Honor from 2002, it runs pretty smoothly so far. 98se Runs pretty stable, and Diablo 1, Ceasar III etc all runs great, Morrowind too.

andre_6 wrote on 2024-10-06, 17:41:

No worries, if I could only have one retro PC it would be a Pentium III based machine as well, that's what I wanted when I got b […]
Show full quote

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 16:01:

I waited to get into this hobby for years to be honest, but i had no opportunity to do so due to lifestyle obligations, no one […]
Show full quote

andre_6 wrote on 2024-10-06, 05:39:

I'm tempted to say that if you just got back into the hobby and are already making a Tualatin build, of all things, then you'll inevitably get a slower Pentium III or II for a "proper" Win98/DOS build later. Might as well come to terms with it now, maybe?

My 2 cents: You have a 1.4ghz Tualatin, just go for it, get a 9600XT and have a great time with Mafia, GTA III/Vice City, Max Payne, and everything else from that fantastic period and before. Install WinME (yes, really) and you'll still be able to scratch the DOS games itch via DOS window. Or Win2000 of course, which benchmarks a little under WinME, and with no DOS. You'll love it, it will feel satisfyingly fast and somehow still perfectly period correct.

And then when you're satisfied you'll inevitably still want that "proper" Win98 DOS etc., and then, also inevitably, an overpowered WinXP machine. And even then you might lust for a 486, just because... We've seen it time after time on these forums... just food for thought

I waited to get into this hobby for years to be honest, but i had no opportunity to do so due to lifestyle obligations, no one who was into such a thing (i`m the only one in my town and in whole country there are few dudes out there, consoles are more popular here and new computers). Before 2 years after i got some connections with few guys in my country, they literaly donated me this Pentium 3 as gift with solid motherboard for future updates. I wanted this from the start, and for older 98/DOS games if needed i will use some apps to slow it down if it runs bit faster then needed, the only concern is that it would be compatible and work well on the machine. Sadly i have no space were to put more old computers even if i would like to. This would be my only old configuration to work on and enjoy reconfigurating new parts etc.

Its not like i have too much money to waste on old computers and parts, i spare a lot for it, and cut corners as most of us make things happen, i just waited for such a long time for it (talked and think about it for such a long time), and for emotional and nostalgic reasons i making Pentium 3, which i want to make into pleasant experience with new mods available in future. I ordered with Tualatan, better heatsing and PCI USB 2.0 card with NEC chip. Via refused to work on my motherboard after few days of using it just stops respoding.

Kind regards.

No worries, if I could only have one retro PC it would be a Pentium III based machine as well, that's what I wanted when I got back around to this stuff. People around here are from all over the place, and clearly there are major differences between hardware price and availability from country to country. But I'll always reply from an optimistic perspective. I still have an inkling that you'll eventually stumble upon another build/freebie hardware combo even if by pure chance, like a Core2Duo or something. If that happens, when in doubt, just accept it even if you think you'll end up getting rid of it later along the way.

Reading your reply, I'd just get whatever's cheaper between a GF4200Ti, 9600XT or as a third alternative a FX5600 if really cheap. If the prices are all the same, +1 for 9600XT for me...

But anyway you'll do very well with the hardware you have already. Tualatins don't run that hot anyway, and with the beefy heatsink, big fan and the fan controller you'll probably get 25/30ºc at idle on Windows at 1500RPM, which is pretty quiet and cool. Socket 462/A coolers are total overkill for socket 370 stuff, which is great. Plus the three holes for the hooks will help spread the load around the socket clips given the increased height of the Tualatins. There are passive solutions for GPUs for the Nvidia or ATI cards from that era, if keeping the build very quiet is a high priority for you, sometimes they show up on the cheap if you want to explore that in the future. I have no idea if AliExpress has that type of stuff or just heatsink+fan combos. 9700/9800 Radeon are the ones that just can't do without active cooling for the reasons other explained

I just found 9600XT 256mb for 5 euros locally in my country, and guy even found passive heatsing replace to fit perfectly, just swap and replace. He have no old computer to test if it work, but judging on pictures it seems all fine. 😀
And yes being quite is my priority nb1. I`m musician whole my life and i like when computers are less noisy. 😀

ATi 9600 Pro / XT 256mb versions may have bit lower clock speeds vs 128MB ones, but 9600 Pro / XT is good choice if palleted textures are not needed. I like very low power / silent options, because of that i firstly recommended 9600 Pro 128MB with 2.8ns speedy memory. Good luck with the ATi Radeon 9600XT, what brand/model did you get?

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 19:10:

I`m musician whole my life

https://youtu.be/R5Pe8hcf11A?si=YQ-S1SFNIJegcSNx

marxveix wrote on 2024-10-06, 20:15:

ATi 9600 Pro / XT 256mb versions may have bit lower clock speeds vs 128MB ones, but 9600 Pro / XT is good choice if palleted textures are not needed. I like very low power / silent options, because of that i firstly recommended 9600 Pro 128MB with 2.8ns speedy memory. Good luck with the ATi Radeon 9600XT, what brand/model did you get?

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to see if it is working one.
Seller said its Ati 9600XT 256mb and it looks like one, but i`m aware there are numerous versions of the same brand.
This is the info i`ve found on XT 256, could not find my exact looking , its almost the same , just different cooler.

http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-225.shtml

zuldan wrote on 2024-10-06, 20:24:

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 19:10:

I`m musician whole my life

https://youtu.be/R5Pe8hcf11A?si=YQ-S1SFNIJegcSNx

Oh yes, i play classical guitar as well, finished basic school, and i know this theme. Play it often to relax myself . 😀

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 20:25:

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to […]
Show full quote

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to see if it is working one.
Seller said its Ati 9600XT 256mb and it looks like one, but i`m aware there are numerous versions of the same brand.
This is the info i`ve found on XT 256, could not find my exact looking , its almost the same , just different cooler.

http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-225.shtml

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works!
Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV-Out AGP Graphics Card C3D 6056

https://www.electromyne.de/Graphics-Cards-AGP … d-C3D-6056.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20041016233130/ht … /agp_9600xt.htm

marxveix wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:07:

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works! Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV- […]
Show full quote

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 20:25:

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to […]
Show full quote

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to see if it is working one.
Seller said its Ati 9600XT 256mb and it looks like one, but i`m aware there are numerous versions of the same brand.
This is the info i`ve found on XT 256, could not find my exact looking , its almost the same , just different cooler.

http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-225.shtml

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works!
Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV-Out AGP Graphics Card C3D 6056

https://www.electromyne.de/Graphics-Cards-AGP … d-C3D-6056.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20041016233130/ht … /agp_9600xt.htm

It seems so indeed. Drivers are no more there, but its good to know which version were the last official for the card. Thanks.

Catalyst 6.2 is latest for Win9x.

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:15:

marxveix wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:07:

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works! Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV- […]
Show full quote

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 20:25:

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to […]
Show full quote

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to see if it is working one.
Seller said its Ati 9600XT 256mb and it looks like one, but i`m aware there are numerous versions of the same brand.
This is the info i`ve found on XT 256, could not find my exact looking , its almost the same , just different cooler.

http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-225.shtml

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works!
Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV-Out AGP Graphics Card C3D 6056

https://www.electromyne.de/Graphics-Cards-AGP … d-C3D-6056.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20041016233130/ht … /agp_9600xt.htm

It seems so indeed. Drivers are no more there, but its good to know which version were the last official for the card. Thanks.

Original Win9x drivers here, i would try XTreme-G, Omega, DNA, NGO tweaked drivers also out.
http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1669&menustate=0

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:15:

marxveix wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:07:

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works! Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV- […]
Show full quote

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 20:25:

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to […]
Show full quote

The seller says its from his old computer old parts, he kept it safe in closet , so i wanted to gamble for so much low price to see if it is working one.
Seller said its Ati 9600XT 256mb and it looks like one, but i`m aware there are numerous versions of the same brand.
This is the info i`ve found on XT 256, could not find my exact looking , its almost the same , just different cooler.

http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-225.shtml

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works!
Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV-Out AGP Graphics Card C3D 6056

https://www.electromyne.de/Graphics-Cards-AGP … d-C3D-6056.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20041016233130/ht … /agp_9600xt.htm

It seems so indeed. Drivers are no more there, but its good to know which version were the last official for the card. Thanks.

The filename led me to this:

https://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fil … 567&menustate=0

Well done on the 9600XT, looks like you're all set

andre_6 wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:42:

The filename led me to this: […]
Show full quote

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:15:

marxveix wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:07:

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works! Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV- […]
Show full quote

Connect 3D is written to the card, it seems it is this card, i hope it works!
Connect 3D ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR DVI VGA TV-Out AGP Graphics Card C3D 6056

https://www.electromyne.de/Graphics-Cards-AGP … d-C3D-6056.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20041016233130/ht … /agp_9600xt.htm

It seems so indeed. Drivers are no more there, but its good to know which version were the last official for the card. Thanks.

The filename led me to this:

https://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fil … 567&menustate=0

Well done on the 9600XT, looks like you're all set

Thanks (i hope it will work well, cant wait to do tests) , these are for 98SE, i suppose i will download the same driver version for XP too since i have dual boot system.

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 22:50:

andre_6 wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:42:

The filename led me to this: […]
Show full quote

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:15:

It seems so indeed. Drivers are no more there, but its good to know which version were the last official for the card. Thanks.

The filename led me to this:

https://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fil … 567&menustate=0

Well done on the 9600XT, looks like you're all set

Thanks (i hope it will work well, cant wait to do tests) , these are for 98SE, i suppose i will download the same driver version for XP too since i have dual boot system.

For XP Catalyst 7.11 is better, it has proper fog support @ games.
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … ble_Fog_support
http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1931&menustate=0

For Win98 you can use this tweak for partial table fog support
Re: Table Fog & 8-bit Paletted Textures

It's always a thing how you define "the best"....best in terms of?
the best card in my opinion is the card that offers a wide range of drivers for different os.
for me it's not so important to have the fastest and the card with the most features.
So I always tend to what you call "underdogs" like a matrox, an old rage...

dr.zeissler wrote on 2024-10-07, 09:05:

It's always a thing how you define "the best"....best in terms of? the best card in my opinion is the card that offers a wide ra […]
Show full quote

It's always a thing how you define "the best"....best in terms of?
the best card in my opinion is the card that offers a wide range of drivers for different os.
for me it's not so important to have the fastest and the card with the most features.
So I always tend to what you call "underdogs" like a matrox, an old rage...

Thats perfectly fine logic. I kind want to see how some of older games run on high end Pentium 3, just for sake of not having too much lags. I`m also not keen to have the best graphics possible, but i like faster response from older games that tend to work slagish on older and average configurations back in a day. If this may be too much, i would certainly get something less powerfull if i ever runs on stabillity issues.

marxveix wrote on 2024-10-07, 06:43:

For XP Catalyst 7.11 is better, it has proper fog support @ games. https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … ble_Fog_suppo […]
Show full quote

Studiostriver wrote on 2024-10-06, 22:50:

andre_6 wrote on 2024-10-06, 21:42:

The filename led me to this:

https://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fil … 567&menustate=0

Well done on the 9600XT, looks like you're all set

Thanks (i hope it will work well, cant wait to do tests) , these are for 98SE, i suppose i will download the same driver version for XP too since i have dual boot system.

For XP Catalyst 7.11 is better, it has proper fog support @ games.
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … ble_Fog_support
http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1931&menustate=0

For Win98 you can use this tweak for partial table fog support
Re: Table Fog & 8-bit Paletted Textures

Hey thank you kindly mister. So much helpful advices! I`m so glad i registered recently on this forum. 😀 You guys rock. \m/

Unfortunately on 9600 XT 2 capacitors are not in good shape. I will have to replace them. Other then that all seems fine.