Everyone is to blame from the very top all the way to the bottom as far as why we are where we are at as far as preservation.
Those who infringe copyright better have the money and lawyers to back it up especially when they consistently do so.

IMO, it should be regulated and just like you have a requirement to keep documents a certain length of time the same should be done for all things. Bare minimum source code, data, unprotected executables and tools to compile should be preserved. It's not as complicated as it's made out to be. Cut through all the legal BS, government should require (since apparently they have to since the free market is shit at it) that it be done and then do it. The most complicated part is storing the data, sorting it and providing proof of purchase for access and granting that access.

DosFreak wrote on 2024-04-28, 15:21:

Everyone is to blame from the very top all the way to the bottom as far as why we are where we are at as far as preservation.
Those who infringe copyright better have the money and lawyers to back it up especially when they consistently do so.

cost of doing business, really you need money to review a product in case you are sued and the fair use defense fails in court

DosFreak wrote on 2024-04-28, 15:21:

IMO, it should be regulated and just like you have a requirement to keep documents a certain length of time the same should be done for all things.

How would that work?

For example, if I coded a video game and published it to itch.io, am I now legally obligated to make that game available for a set time? Does itch.io become legally obligated to host that game for a set time? The latter case meaning I've effectively given away any control of distribution of said game.

And how would any of this be regulated or enforced?

How it would work needs to be defined.

Speaking for the U.S. The Library of Congress already has a digital preservation initiative. Files would be submitted to them or whomever they deem appropriate to preserve the files. Access to submitted files via proof of purchase and hopefully someone with some sense would rethink having to wait 70yrs if you haven't purchased the software.

If you've made software available and people have purchased that software with their money then yes you should be obligated to ensure that users can download and USE their purchase within reason.
 
If someone has purchased the product then they should be able to use that product. The publisher\developer shouldn't have a say but in edge cases where for whatever reason it's deemed to deny users the ability to download and use their software then at the very least it should be officially preserved somewhere and if the dev\publisher wants to wipe their software from existence from preservation without allowing the user to use the software they purchased there needs to be a damn good reason.

For those that decide to wipe their software from existence without preservation then there should be a publicy available list of the software and of the devs\publishers that decide to do so that users can prepare instead of being caught unaware.

As far as enforcement as with anything auditing, it doesn't have to be 100% but at least it would be in a database somewhere so it could be tracked relatively easily. Require online stores to make it a requirement, have online store submit to wherever government decides. For individual developers submit directly to wherever it's decided to do so.
Failure to do so would be a fine per violation, make it costly enough where failure to do so would make it an incentive to submit their software.

Was thinking. Why didn't they (archive.org) separate the low risk and the high risk services? Put it in separate organizations, like three parts: The website page-crawling, the book related things and the user uploads. That last part will taint the website archive, and possibly make things go down together.
In addition the user uploaded CD/DVD images and such probably take most of the bandwidth, slowing the website archive as well.

DosFreak wrote on 2024-04-28, 15:21:

Everyone is to blame from the very top all the way to the bottom as far as why we are where we are at as far as preservation.
Those who infringe copyright better have the money and lawyers to back it up especially when they consistently do so.

IMO, it should be regulated and just like you have a requirement to keep documents a certain length of time the same should be done for all things. Bare minimum source code, data, unprotected executables and tools to compile should be preserved. It's not as complicated as it's made out to be. Cut through all the legal BS, government should require (since apparently they have to since the free market is shit at it) that it be done and then do it. The most complicated part is storing the data, sorting it and providing proof of purchase for access and granting that access.

Copyright laws are mostly bullshit. Vague and overprotective. It's long overdue to update intellectual property, copy and ownership rights because it's too easy for companies to abuse them. Where I live, you by law have the legal right to make backup copies of the media you buy. Except those backup copies don't work if there is copy protection/DRM in place. At the same time it's a felony to disable or provide means to disable copy protection/DRM.

Is it just me or is the Wayback Machine less useful than it used to be? Old webpages are often not available. Often it just gives you an unhelpful link to the current online page. You also have the disappearance of Google cacheing. It's becoming harder than ever to research old topics that require access to offline webpages.

Errius wrote on 2024-05-01, 09:36:

Is it just me or is the Wayback Machine less useful than it used to be? Old webpages are often not available. Often it just gives you an unhelpful link to the current online page. You also have the disappearance of Google cacheing. It's becoming harder than ever to research old topics that require access to offline webpages.

we'll think of that as a luxury when "searching" is no longer for web pages but for "content" which is corralled, processed by ai and re-generated at you from various commercial gatekeepers

at least for now searches like bing's "co-pilot" is citing websites, but for how long until the whole thing is just the 'co-pilot'

I hope not, but wouldn't bet against it

if archive itself goes, a lot of history goes forever. all those scanned books, periodicals, manuals, those captured vhs records of tv news, texts, images and so on - all going back into history, all glimpses of the past - they are costing a lot to keep online and available. many are only on archive, the originals either gone or locked on someone's home system, offline and at risk of disappearing

Errius wrote on 2024-05-01, 09:36:

Is it just me or is the Wayback Machine less useful than it used to be? Old webpages are often not available.

I've been using the WM for the purpose of researching and finding old games for over a decade, and no, I've not noticed any recent degradation of quality. Yes, some pages are not preserved well and others not at all, and it's always been the case, which is very sad, but I've garnered a wealth of information and even some hitherto unknown/obscure games (mostly talking about freeware/FOSS or shareware stuff, not commercial titles here), which would have otherwise been completely lost forever. To put it another way, I've not recovered everything that I tried to, but a lot of stuff was salvaged, luckily.

Should the current situation in any way adversely impact the Wayback Machine, it would be a huge setback for the study of video game history. Even more so because what I'm talking about is completely legal activities in any jurisdiction.

BTW, I've never used any sort of WM's search functions, as I don't find them very helpful. I surf the archived pages as I would back in the 90s, following links on pages that I've discovered (this also means that I often use external sources for leads on what URLs to check). I also use the WM function to list all archived pages under a certain URL to find what might be not displayed due to broken index pages or whatnot. Sometimes the home page of a website is not displayed, but the relevant product/project pages can still be accessed, sometimes completely intact, if you dig them up from the list.

"Temporarily Offline"

hmm...

Errius wrote on 2024-05-04, 16:54:

"Temporarily Offline"

hmm...

what happened?

So do we have a plan B for what to do if this gets taken offline for good? Is anyone archiving the archive?

Errius wrote on 2024-05-04, 16:54:

"Temporarily Offline"

hmm...

Looks like that is just the Wayback Machine. The file archive still seems to be working.

I just used the Wayback Machine before reading this post. It's back online now.