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Reply 40 of 69, by oldhighgerman

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Son of a monkey it works. Found my old cd-rw with dos something (7.n?). And my external dvd drive. Has Qbasic , but not debug. Worked quite well.

So just how do you go about putting dos on a thumb drive?

Reply 41 of 69, by BitWrangler

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Rufus will do it I think.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 42 of 69, by DarthSun

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zyzzle wrote on 2024-08-16, 00:03:
DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-15, 21:50:

That's right. The X86/64 has the biggest grip, and no other system is close to it.
B450PRO+R3800X: It has UEFI+Legacy support in BIOS, and DOS runs great on this machine.

But how is video support? Are VGA modes supported (320x200,320x240,640x350) as well as VESA modes on the R3800x onboard video? What is the onboard sound chipset? Is it compatible with SBEMU?

R3800X CPU without APU. It contains GTX1650 (Win10-11) and NV7900GS (DOS, Win98, XP).
The motherboard sound sounds( Realtek S1200A) with SBEMU/VSBHDA DOS sound 6.22/7.1 ok, and has a rotated SB Live with Chinese PCie to PCI converter, but also for Win98 mainly because it doesn't have SBEMU, but it works with its own driver.
NV7900GS : VGA modes supported for DOS (320x200,320x240,640x350) as well as VESA modes ok, and even larger resolutions.

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The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 43 of 69, by Dothan Burger

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DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-16, 03:09:

The motherboard sound sounds( Realtek S1200A) with SBEMU/VSBHDA DOS sound 6.22/7.1 ok, and has a rotated SB Live with Chinese PCie to PCI converter, but also for Win98 mainly because it doesn't have SBEMU, but it works with its own driver.

I was never able to get SB16 emulation working on pre Zen AMD APUs, so It's surprising to see it working with Ryzen.

Reply 44 of 69, by zyzzle

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DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-16, 03:09:

R3800X CPU without APU. It contains GTX1650 (Win10-11) and NV7900GS (DOS, Win98, XP).
The motherboard sound sounds( Realtek S1200A) with SBEMU/VSBHDA DOS sound 6.22/7.1 ok, and has a rotated SB Live with Chinese PCie to PCI converter, but also for Win98 mainly because it doesn't have SBEMU, but it works with its own driver.
NV7900GS : VGA modes supported for DOS (320x200,320x240,640x350) as well as VESA modes ok, and even larger resolutions.

Outstanding! Thanks for the screenshots and the information. Seems like it would indeed be very near the "fastest" and most modern CPU / mobo combination which will run DOS on bare metal very well. Noted with relish for future reference.

Reply 45 of 69, by DarthSun

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Dothan Burger wrote on 2024-08-16, 11:28:
DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-16, 03:09:

The motherboard sound sounds( Realtek S1200A) with SBEMU/VSBHDA DOS sound 6.22/7.1 ok, and has a rotated SB Live with Chinese PCie to PCI converter, but also for Win98 mainly because it doesn't have SBEMU, but it works with its own driver.

I was never able to get SB16 emulation working on pre Zen AMD APUs, so It's surprising to see it working with Ryzen.

I do not admire it, many of the previous motherboards can be a problem. It is already free blocks on NFORCE chipset, but the EMM sheet frame is flawed due to the boldness of the BIOS.
I used to start experimenting and then developed the fake sheet frame. EMM indicates a mistake, but goes on, but the page frame will be active on a modern machine, so it runs on the Zen2 under the method of SBLIVE DOS (SB DOSdrivers). As well as native EMS -loving, non -loving titles too. My invention.

device=c:\config\limitmem.sys 32

[code]rem new version EMS
DEVICE=C:\config\HIMEMX.EXE /NOABOVE16 /X /X2MAX32 /MAX=32768
DEVICE=C:\DOS\UMBPCI.SYS
DEVICE=C:\dos\EMM386.EXE RAM
DOS=HIGH,UMB,AUTO
rem end new version EMS

SHELL=C:\dos\COMMAND.COM C:\ /p
DEVICEHIGH=C:\dos\SETVER.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\dos\IFSHLP.SYS
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:1024 /P
LASTDRIVE=Z
rem DEVICEhigh=C:\HXCD-ROM\LTNIDE.SYS /D:MSCD000
STACKS=9,256
SWITCHES=/F
FILES=20
BUFFERS=20

(DOS 7.1 copied to the Root DOS directory from the Win98 folder)

Fake sheet frame+live sbeinit memory picture:

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Live mixer set for Live /DOS :

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And SBEMU/VSBHDA drives the motherboard Realtek well with the recommended JEMM/QEMM driver and works well on this machine with Live.

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The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 46 of 69, by DarthSun

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zyzzle wrote on 2024-08-16, 12:20:
DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-16, 03:09:

R3800X CPU without APU. It contains GTX1650 (Win10-11) and NV7900GS (DOS, Win98, XP).
The motherboard sound sounds( Realtek S1200A) with SBEMU/VSBHDA DOS sound 6.22/7.1 ok, and has a rotated SB Live with Chinese PCie to PCI converter, but also for Win98 mainly because it doesn't have SBEMU, but it works with its own driver.
NV7900GS : VGA modes supported for DOS (320x200,320x240,640x350) as well as VESA modes ok, and even larger resolutions.

Outstanding! Thanks for the screenshots and the information. Seems like it would indeed be very near the "fastest" and most modern CPU / mobo combination which will run DOS on bare metal very well. Noted with relish for future reference.

There are also a couple of Alder/Raptor motherboards, which have a inherited code in BIOS, and DOS runs with an older secondary video card. Anyway, even in the GTX1650, there is a inherited code, DOS runs, if I allow it in BIOS, there is no longer in the RTX series.
Alder/Raptor+inherited code: Win98 also goes up with a secondary NV7900 video card, a protection error may come, but it has been corrected with Cregfix. I've seen someone packed on Raptor.
DOS/XP: HD6870 and GTX560Ti, these go - of course not under Win98 anymore, there is the last driver for the 7900 series.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 47 of 69, by Dothan Burger

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DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-16, 15:47:

I do not admire it, many of the previous motherboards can be a problem. It is already free blocks on NFORCE chipset, but the EMM sheet frame is flawed due to the boldness of the BIOS.
I used to start experimenting and then developed the fake sheet frame. EMM indicates a mistake, but goes on, but the page frame will be active on a modern machine, so it runs on the Zen2 under the method of SBLIVE DOS (SB DOSdrivers). As well as native EMS -loving, non -loving titles too. My invention.

I'm impressed, you should start a new thread about this creation of yours. SB16 emulation on Ryzen is good news.

Reply 48 of 69, by DarthSun

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Dothan Burger wrote on 2024-08-16, 22:22:
DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-16, 15:47:

I do not admire it, many of the previous motherboards can be a problem. It is already free blocks on NFORCE chipset, but the EMM sheet frame is flawed due to the boldness of the BIOS.
I used to start experimenting and then developed the fake sheet frame. EMM indicates a mistake, but goes on, but the page frame will be active on a modern machine, so it runs on the Zen2 under the method of SBLIVE DOS (SB DOSdrivers). As well as native EMS -loving, non -loving titles too. My invention.

I'm impressed, you should start a new thread about this creation of yours. SB16 emulation on Ryzen is good news.

In the Hungarian topics, development is scattered in DOS6.22/7.1/Win98/XP.
If I wanted to get together - dos about 4 A4 pages, win98 10 pages.
I plan, but it is quite complicated, so I saved the final versions into ISO/IMG File, because I don't certainly remember everything over the years.
DOS6.22/7.1 IMG in the cloud, but not link here, because dos is a license for today's day. No one is interested today, but here the moderator is strict.
ETC for a variety of modern machines:

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Win98 Ultra ISO HDD/SSD can be copied with Point to Point, but the link not also be specified here.

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Win98 Full on Madness Machine:

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XP Full Madness Machine:

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The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 49 of 69, by digger

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Riikcakirds wrote on 2024-08-09, 21:48:

If using a Pentium or any CPU that includes VME and loading EMM386 you will lose around 30-35% of your fpu performance in Dos when CPU is in V86 mode.
To get the real speed use JEMM386/EX to switch to protected /V86 mode as it does support VME.
I tested this on a Core2 in NSSI using its benchmark. The latest 1999 realease of EMM386 still does not support VME.

I love how after all these years, I keep learning new things about DOS in this forum. Thanks for sharing this.

Are there any EMMs that support both GEMMIS and VME? Later versions of QEMM perhaps?

Reply 50 of 69, by Ringding

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Riikcakirds wrote on 2024-08-09, 21:48:

If using a Pentium or any CPU that includes VME and loading EMM386 you will lose around 30-35% of your fpu performance in Dos when CPU is in V86 mode.
I tested this on a Core2 in NSSI using its benchmark. The latest 1999 realease of EMM386 still does not support VME.

I wonder why this would be the case. Maybe the NSSI FPU benchmark does weird things like triggering exceptions or messing with the interrupt flags all the time…

Also, I cannot think of a single piece of software where this would even matter. Maybe Excel 2.1 on Windows 3 in real mode? Come on!

Reply 51 of 69, by javispedro1

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Not a lot of results shared so far, no?

With a Intel 13700k with stock settings, I got :
Landmark (6.0 from phil's distribution)
CPU 23400 Mhz (no difference between real/v86 mode).
FPU 12000 Mhz
Video 26568 chr/ms

AIDA16 (from this thread):
AIDA16: 1266 (in real mode) , 1283 (in v86 mode with JEMMEX)
AIDA32: 16424

Reply 52 of 69, by DarthSun

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Extreme video, CPU, FPU speed
Asrock 775i65G Rev2.03(4) / Core2Duo E6600 / Radeon9800Pro AGP / 2x512MB Corsair XMS DDR1-400 / SB Live 0100 / Hitachi DeskStar 250GB IDE / Asus DVDRW IDE / DTK 300W / PS2 bill+egér / Win98SE+UOSP / DOS7.1 / WinXP SP3

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HDD

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WT Mandelbrot

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WT PCI list

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SpeedSys

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The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 53 of 69, by DarthSun

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DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-18, 19:04:
Extreme video, CPU, FPU speed Asrock 775i65G Rev2.03(4) / Core2Duo E6600 / Radeon9800Pro AGP / 2x512MB Corsair XMS DDR1-400 / S […]
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Extreme video, CPU, FPU speed
Asrock 775i65G Rev2.03(4) / Core2Duo E6600 / Radeon9800Pro AGP / 2x512MB Corsair XMS DDR1-400 / SB Live 0100 / Hitachi DeskStar 250GB IDE / Asus DVDRW IDE / DTK 300W / PS2 bill+egér / Win98SE+UOSP / DOS7.1 / WinXP SP3

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HDD

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WT Mandelbrot

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WT PCI list

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SpeedSys

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Machine at the test station

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The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 54 of 69, by Riikcakirds

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Ringding wrote on 2024-08-17, 14:25:
Riikcakirds wrote on 2024-08-09, 21:48:

If using a Pentium or any CPU that includes VME and loading EMM386 you will lose around 30-35% of your fpu performance in Dos when CPU is in V86 mode.
I tested this on a Core2 in NSSI using its benchmark. The latest 1999 realease of EMM386 still does not support VME.

I wonder why this would be the case. Maybe the NSSI FPU benchmark does weird things like triggering exceptions or messing with the interrupt flags all the time…

Also, I cannot think of a single piece of software where this would even matter. Maybe Excel 2.1 on Windows 3 in real mode? Come on!

The software/programs don't need to support VME, the CPU just needs it to be enabled, which EMM386 and any version of Win3.x will not, so you will get a slowdown in anything that uses V86 mode.
Loading Emm386 will generally slow down everything in DOS by 25-35% (video, i/o performance, FPU) . NSSI benchmark is just an easy way to show it as a real time bar graph. It is the same with other dos benchmarks/games. The same whether using a 486DX4 or Corei7. The only difference is the slowdown is much more notable on a 386/486 versus a 3GHz core i7 slowed down by 25%.
This was well known back in the early 1990's when using a 386 and 486 as it had such a big impact on performance. Most people just loaded Emm386 in their autoexec.bat and didn't even know that it switched their CPUs to V86 mode and the slowdown it causes. There are many posts on Usenet around 1992-1995 about it.
E.g :EMM386.EXE slows down the computer: Why? (1994) (click on expand all to read all the replies)
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.msdos.pro … /m/c3xCtEab8c4J

Intel created VME to address the slowdown, mainly optimizing virtual interrupts. Emm386 though never added support to enable VME when switching to protected mode/v86 , you will still get the slowdown on a Pentium. Jemm386 has a switch to enable VME, in tests I've run with VME enabled the slowdown in V86 mode is then only around 2-3%, instead of 25-35% with EMM386.

Reply 55 of 69, by Riikcakirds

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javispedro1 wrote on 2024-08-18, 17:11:
Not a lot of results shared so far, no? […]
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Not a lot of results shared so far, no?

With a Intel 13700k with stock settings, I got :
Landmark (6.0 from phil's distribution)
CPU 23400 Mhz (no difference between real/v86 mode).
FPU 12000 Mhz
Video 26568 chr/ms

AIDA16 (from this thread):
AIDA16: 1266 (in real mode) , 1283 (in v86 mode with JEMMEX)
AIDA32: 16424

Compare the benchmarks by using Emm386 for V86 mode and then using Jemmex for V86 mode (VME are enabled by default with Jemmex). You should see a slowdown with FPU in emm386.

Reply 56 of 69, by DarthSun

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Riikcakirds wrote on 2024-08-23, 23:00:
javispedro1 wrote on 2024-08-18, 17:11:
Not a lot of results shared so far, no? […]
Show full quote

Not a lot of results shared so far, no?

With a Intel 13700k with stock settings, I got :
Landmark (6.0 from phil's distribution)
CPU 23400 Mhz (no difference between real/v86 mode).
FPU 12000 Mhz
Video 26568 chr/ms

AIDA16 (from this thread):
AIDA16: 1266 (in real mode) , 1283 (in v86 mode with JEMMEX)
AIDA32: 16424

Compare the benchmarks by using Emm386 for V86 mode and then using Jemmex for V86 mode (VME are enabled by default with Jemmex). You should see a slowdown with FPU in emm386.

It is not particularly important on a beast machine. Because of this, I run DOS with Xeon/Ryzen CPU, for example, Q2DOS is also a smooth SW render for to high resolution.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 58 of 69, by DarthSun

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edescourtis wrote on 2024-08-24, 00:55:

Interesting so an Intel 13700k looses to a Core2 Duo E6600?! crazy!

This is because the AGP motherboard and the R9800Pro contain even legacy code, and the more modern Intel 13700K system can only rely on emulations.
So I don't update the Zen2 BIOS, and I use 7900GS and HD6870 secondary video cards in this + in Haswell Xeon, so allow there is a legacy code.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 59 of 69, by DarthSun

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DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-24, 01:30:
edescourtis wrote on 2024-08-24, 00:55:

Interesting so an Intel 13700k looses to a Core2 Duo E6600?! crazy!

This is because the AGP motherboard and the R9800Pro contain even legacy code, and the more modern Intel 13700K system can only rely on emulations.
So I don't update the Zen2 BIOS, and I use 7900GS and HD6870 secondary video cards in this + in Haswell Xeon, so allow there is a legacy code.

The final config is built with NV6800GT, making it even faster. The secondary video card is the Matrox Mill G200 for certain DOS titles, and too Win3.11.

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The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.