I've been looking at this ad for months and finally pulled the trigger. I really don't know why I waited so long to pull the trigger... I absolutely loved the extra stuff they were putting in these bigboxes!

Linoleum wrote on 2025-02-07, 17:50:

I've been looking at this ad for months and finally pulled the trigger. I really don't know why I waited so long to pull the trigger... I absolutely loved the extra stuff they were putting in these bigboxes!

Would this post better fit in a retro SOFTWARE thread?

amadeus777999 wrote on 2025-02-07, 14:01:

It really seems to be a Packard Bell but interestingly the BIOS is signed by the Highscreen line(proprietary of the German "PC v […]
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dionb wrote on 2025-02-07, 11:20:

That logo still looks pretty Packard Bell though... […]
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amadeus777999 wrote on 2025-02-06, 13:47:

A German guy gave me this little gem - another Pentium60/66 from my favorite era.
Never had a "Packard Bell" back then. Interestingly the BIOS identifies itself as branded by VOBIS.

That logo still looks pretty Packard Bell though...

I'll try adding a SCSI controller which would finalize this build.

Looks like someone has already significantly upgraded this machine - an AWE64 gold and that VGA card (what is it?) in the top slot has replaced the onboard Cirrus Logic GD5434

If you wanted to be authentic, don't add SCSI but add a sound card with Panasonic interface and a Matsushita/Panasonic CD-Drom drive (something like an Aztech MMSN824)

It really seems to be a Packard Bell but interestingly the BIOS is signed by the Highscreen line(proprietary of the German "PC vendor" Vobis / windows system info even showing a VOBIS logo). I first thought the board was "counterfeit", as in later installed, but it seems authentic... apparently a naughty "flasher" dropped his eprom-coat.

The VGA card is a Matrox Mystique 220 - superb output.

The SCSI experiment is over - I benchmarked it in DoomII and with SCSI I get a mere "speedup" delta of 3 tics relative to 4500+. Love SCSI but the case is also small and the drive is too hot... in more ways than one.
Thanks for Your tip regarding the sound card, if there is an Aztech wave table option I'll go for it. The AWE64 Gold is the bomb but it feels a bit re-attached in this build(btw - the P60s I had the chance to check out in 1995[all by Vobis] featured "Mozart" soundcards.)

PB used Aztech sound cards almost exclusively except for their Miro IBM mWave DSP sound/modem combo cards. Would not recommend the latter unless masochistic and/or seriously into intentionally less easy and nice-sounding hardware. None of the PB systems I'm aware of came with a Wavetable Aztech card, but the MMSN826 is functionally identical to the MMSN824 with a pretty nice ICS wavetable chip with 2MB ROM bolted on. It even still has the CD-Rom interfaces.

debs3759 wrote on 2025-02-07, 17:56:

Linoleum wrote on 2025-02-07, 17:50:

I've been looking at this ad for months and finally pulled the trigger. I really don't know why I waited so long to pull the trigger... I absolutely loved the extra stuff they were putting in these bigboxes!

Would this post better fit in a retro SOFTWARE thread?

I'm putting *just* enough text under this image so its not a "reaction image post"

luckybob wrote on 2025-02-07, 20:43:

https://i.imgur.com/SnIwFtR.gif […]
Show full quote

I'm putting *just* enough text under this image so its not a "reaction image post"

🤣

dionb wrote on 2025-02-07, 18:05:

amadeus777999 wrote on 2025-02-07, 14:01:

It really seems to be a Packard Bell but interestingly the BIOS is signed by the Highscreen line(proprietary of the German "PC v […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2025-02-07, 11:20:

That logo still looks pretty Packard Bell though...

Looks like someone has already significantly upgraded this machine - an AWE64 gold and that VGA card (what is it?) in the top slot has replaced the onboard Cirrus Logic GD5434

If you wanted to be authentic, don't add SCSI but add a sound card with Panasonic interface and a Matsushita/Panasonic CD-Drom drive (something like an Aztech MMSN824)

It really seems to be a Packard Bell but interestingly the BIOS is signed by the Highscreen line(proprietary of the German "PC vendor" Vobis / windows system info even showing a VOBIS logo). I first thought the board was "counterfeit", as in later installed, but it seems authentic... apparently a naughty "flasher" dropped his eprom-coat.

The VGA card is a Matrox Mystique 220 - superb output.

The SCSI experiment is over - I benchmarked it in DoomII and with SCSI I get a mere "speedup" delta of 3 tics relative to 4500+. Love SCSI but the case is also small and the drive is too hot... in more ways than one.
Thanks for Your tip regarding the sound card, if there is an Aztech wave table option I'll go for it. The AWE64 Gold is the bomb but it feels a bit re-attached in this build(btw - the P60s I had the chance to check out in 1995[all by Vobis] featured "Mozart" soundcards.)

PB used Aztech sound cards almost exclusively except for their Miro IBM mWave DSP sound/modem combo cards. Would not recommend the latter unless masochistic and/or seriously into intentionally less easy and nice-sounding hardware. None of the PB systems I'm aware of came with a Wavetable Aztech card, but the MMSN826 is functionally identical to the MMSN824 with a pretty nice ICS wavetable chip with 2MB ROM bolted on. It even still has the CD-Rom interfaces.

Ok, thanks - a quick search revealed electromyne has such a card.

amadeus777999 wrote on 2025-02-07, 14:01:

It really seems to be a Packard Bell but interestingly the BIOS is signed by the Highscreen line(proprietary of the German "PC v […]
Show full quote

It really seems to be a Packard Bell but interestingly the BIOS is signed by the Highscreen line(proprietary of the German "PC vendor" Vobis / windows system info even showing a VOBIS logo). I first thought the board was "counterfeit", as in later installed, but it seems authentic... apparently a naughty "flasher" dropped his eprom-coat.

The VGA card is a Matrox Mystique 220 - superb output.

The SCSI experiment is over - I benchmarked it in DoomII and with SCSI I get a mere "speedup" delta of 3 tics relative to 4500+. Love SCSI but the case is also small and the drive is too hot... in more ways than one.
Thanks for Your tip regarding the sound card, if there is an Aztech wave table option I'll go for it. The AWE64 Gold is the bomb but it feels a bit re-attached in this build(btw - the P60s I had the chance to check out in 1995[all by Vobis] featured "Mozart" soundcards.)

Very nice machine!
I'm curious how fast would BeOS run on a Pentium 60, considering the recommended minimum is a P133.
How much memory is installed?
Would you be willing to try?

Linoleum wrote on 2025-02-07, 17:50:

I really don't know why I waited so long to pull the trigger...

Maybe because big box items in good condition don't tend to go cheap? Haha. Big box games are great, but I don't have the space. All of my compact disks are stored in thin plastic sleeves. Likewise my floppy disks are all in one storage tray.

lolo799 wrote on 2025-02-08, 11:02:

Very nice machine! I'm curious how fast would BeOS run on a Pentium 60, considering the recommended minimum is a P133. How much […]
Show full quote

amadeus777999 wrote on 2025-02-07, 14:01:

It really seems to be a Packard Bell but interestingly the BIOS is signed by the Highscreen line(proprietary of the German "PC v […]
Show full quote

It really seems to be a Packard Bell but interestingly the BIOS is signed by the Highscreen line(proprietary of the German "PC vendor" Vobis / windows system info even showing a VOBIS logo). I first thought the board was "counterfeit", as in later installed, but it seems authentic... apparently a naughty "flasher" dropped his eprom-coat.

The VGA card is a Matrox Mystique 220 - superb output.

The SCSI experiment is over - I benchmarked it in DoomII and with SCSI I get a mere "speedup" delta of 3 tics relative to 4500+. Love SCSI but the case is also small and the drive is too hot... in more ways than one.
Thanks for Your tip regarding the sound card, if there is an Aztech wave table option I'll go for it. The AWE64 Gold is the bomb but it feels a bit re-attached in this build(btw - the P60s I had the chance to check out in 1995[all by Vobis] featured "Mozart" soundcards.)

Very nice machine!
I'm curious how fast would BeOS run on a Pentium 60, considering the recommended minimum is a P133.
How much memory is installed?
Would you be willing to try?

Of course - I'll give it a try mid next week. What version should I try?
Memory installed is 40MiB - 8 onboard and 2x16 via Simms.

amadeus777999 wrote:

Of course - I'll give it a try mid next week. What version should I try?
Memory installed is 40MiB - 8 onboard and 2x16 via Simms.

If you have an easy way of copying files to your hdd, the personal edition will do fine.

lolo799 wrote on 2025-02-08, 18:02:

amadeus777999 wrote:

Of course - I'll give it a try mid next week. What version should I try?
Memory installed is 40MiB - 8 onboard and 2x16 via Simms.

If you have an easy way of copying files to your hdd, the personal edition will do fine.

Ok,
I'll download it and post some findings next week.

Hit the Terratec jackpot today:

EWS64XL in (rather battered) box with all the manuals, driver disks and even paperwork and correspondence with the Terratec importer

But if you know EWS64, you're missing what makes this the XL- the 5.25" bay breakout box. And it is missing, but something else isn't:

The Waldorf microWAVE PC synth breakout box that turns this EWS64 into an XXL.

No DOS support for the Waldorf, but this is a perfect excuse to convert my Tualatin Win2k system to Win98SE (EWS64 and Win2k is not a great combo...)

dionb wrote on 2025-02-08, 19:15:

Hit the Terratec jackpot today: […]
Show full quote

Hit the Terratec jackpot today:

EWS64XL in (rather battered) box with all the manuals, driver disks and even paperwork and correspondence with the Terratec importer

But if you know EWS64, you're missing what makes this the XL- the 5.25" bay breakout box. And it is missing, but something else isn't:

The Waldorf microWAVE PC synth breakout box that turns this EWS64 into an XXL.

No DOS support for the Waldorf, but this is a perfect excuse to convert my Tualatin Win2k system to Win98SE (EWS64 and Win2k is not a great combo...)

"Made in Germany"

Do you know how it compares to Guillemot MaxiSound 64 ?

amadeus777999 wrote on 2025-02-08, 18:59:

lolo799 wrote on 2025-02-08, 18:02:

amadeus777999 wrote:

Of course - I'll give it a try mid next week. What version should I try?
Memory installed is 40MiB - 8 onboard and 2x16 via Simms.

If you have an easy way of copying files to your hdd, the personal edition will do fine.

Ok,
I'll download it and post some findings next week.

Thanks!
It's a windows installer by default, if that's an issue I can make a zip archive of the installed version.

You'll also need a benchmark like BeRometer.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010515033646/ht … ucts/BeRometer/
Direct link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000928231227/ht … meter-1.2.5.zip

And maybe Doom, if I can find a link to it...
Or Quake:
https://web.archive.org/web/20021009144553/ht … e/projects.html

acl wrote on 2025-02-08, 19:25:

[...]

"Made in Germany"

Do you know how it compares to Guillemot MaxiSound 64 ?

The base EWS64 card is very similar to the MaxiSound64. For DOS gaming purposes they are as good as identical, unless you want to load absolutely huge soundfonts (the MaxiSound64 maxes out at 28MB, the EWS64 can go up to 64MB), but usually you'll want to use the 8MB GS font anyway. One minor advantage for the MaxiSound is that you can stick a wavetable daughterboard straight on the card, as opposed to needing the breakout box for the EWS64 - but as the card has an excellent wavetable solution onboard, that's a corner case.

Under Windows the differences get bigger. Guillemot stuck closer to reference Crystal designs and software (you just initialize the two chips one by one), where Terratec decided to get smarter (whole own driver layer). That means more powerful options, but a lot more things that can go wrong too. A musician friend of mine bought one in 2000 or so for serious work and was never able to get it to actually do what he wanted (the fact he insisted on using Win2k didn't help - great OS, but clearly not one preferred y Terratec's software enigneers).

And then there's the Waldorf module. No other card has anything like that. I look forward to playing with it 😉

dionb wrote on 2025-02-08, 20:05:

The base EWS64 card is very similar to the MaxiSound64. For DOS gaming purposes they are as good as identical, unless you want t […]
Show full quote

acl wrote on 2025-02-08, 19:25:

[...]

"Made in Germany"

Do you know how it compares to Guillemot MaxiSound 64 ?

The base EWS64 card is very similar to the MaxiSound64. For DOS gaming purposes they are as good as identical, unless you want to load absolutely huge soundfonts (the MaxiSound64 maxes out at 28MB, the EWS64 can go up to 64MB), but usually you'll want to use the 8MB GS font anyway. One minor advantage for the MaxiSound is that you can stick a wavetable daughterboard straight on the card, as opposed to needing the breakout box for the EWS64 - but as the card has an excellent wavetable solution onboard, that's a corner case.

Under Windows the differences get bigger. Guillemot stuck closer to reference Crystal designs and software (you just initialize the two chips one by one), where Terratec decided to get smarter (whole own driver layer). That means more powerful options, but a lot more things that can go wrong too. A musician friend of mine bought one in 2000 or so for serious work and was never able to get it to actually do what he wanted (the fact he insisted on using Win2k didn't help - great OS, but clearly not one preferred y Terratec's software enigneers).

And then there's the Waldorf module. No other card has anything like that. I look forward to playing with it 😉

Thank you.
I asked because I read a lot of positive things about the EWS64. It sounded great on samples i listened.
I have a Guillemot MaxiSound64, from a lot but never dared to use it in a build because it seemed too complex to use and configure. I also could not decide in which build it would be interesting. Because it's a late ISA card, with Windows in mind.
The Guillemot also seems less known and I found less samples and reviews.

I would be very interested to see (and hear) your tests.

acl wrote on 2025-02-08, 21:29:

[...] […]
Show full quote

[...]

Thank you.
I asked because I read a lot of positive things about the EWS64. It sounded great on samples i listened.
I have a Guillemot MaxiSound64, from a lot but never dared to use it in a build because it seemed too complex to use and configure. I also could not decide in which build it would be interesting. Because it's a late ISA card, with Windows in mind.
The Guillemot also seems less known and I found less samples and reviews.

Shame about that, they are great cards - and they are easier than these Terratec monsters (it's the opposite of cars it seems: Germany has the very complicated idiosyncratic cards, France the more simple, standard ones 😜 ). Even though you need Windows software to fully use its potential, it's also a great late DOS card, like the Soundblaster AWE series, but better. And - in DOS at least - simpler. You just initialize the Crystal chip, then the Dream chip (and load a soundfont if you want). Then point any games that have a GM sountrack to it and enjoy. Messing around with a different sound font is as easy as just telling it to load a different file.

Also: bug-free MIDI, great clear sound and full SBPro2 compatibility. Only downside is CSFM instead of a real OPL3 for FM/AdLib, but CSFM is one of the better alternatives and anyway, most games you would play with this card are from after the FM synth era.

So give it a try!

I would be very interested to see (and hear) your tests.

There's a lot of stuff about the regular EWS64 out there (in fact I've posted about it before as I already have an XL), in games it basically sounds like any other card with Dream synth and lots of sample RAM. The Waldorf though... I've not been able to find any examples of that playing game music. If I get it running and it turns out to be able to play them - which it should, it is a MIDI sound module after all - I might make a topic about that 😀

lolo799 wrote on 2025-02-08, 19:41:

Thanks! It's a windows installer by default, if that's an issue I can make a zip archive of the installed version. […]
Show full quote

amadeus777999 wrote on 2025-02-08, 18:59:

lolo799 wrote on 2025-02-08, 18:02:

If you have an easy way of copying files to your hdd, the personal edition will do fine.

Ok,
I'll download it and post some findings next week.

Thanks!
It's a windows installer by default, if that's an issue I can make a zip archive of the installed version.

You'll also need a benchmark like BeRometer.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010515033646/ht … ucts/BeRometer/
Direct link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000928231227/ht … meter-1.2.5.zip

And maybe Doom, if I can find a link to it...
Or Quake:
https://web.archive.org/web/20021009144553/ht … e/projects.html

Ok, thanks.
I downloaded "BeOS Doom" yesterday.
Looking forward to testing it.

dionb wrote on 2025-02-08, 22:21:

Shame about that, they are great cards - and they are easier than these Terratec monsters (it's the opposite of cars it seems: G […]
Show full quote

Shame about that, they are great cards - and they are easier than these Terratec monsters (it's the opposite of cars it seems: Germany has the very complicated idiosyncratic cards, France the more simple, standard ones 😜 ). Even though you need Windows software to fully use its potential, it's also a great late DOS card, like the Soundblaster AWE series, but better. And - in DOS at least - simpler. You just initialize the Crystal chip, then the Dream chip (and load a soundfont if you want). Then point any games that have a GM sountrack to it and enjoy. Messing around with a different sound font is as easy as just telling it to load a different file.

Also: bug-free MIDI, great clear sound and full SBPro2 compatibility. Only downside is CSFM instead of a real OPL3 for FM/AdLib, but CSFM is one of the better alternatives and anyway, most games you would play with this card are from after the FM synth era.

So give it a try!

I would be very interested to see (and hear) your tests.

There's a lot of stuff about the regular EWS64 out there (in fact I've posted about it before as I already have an XL), in games it basically sounds like any other card with Dream synth and lots of sample RAM. The Waldorf though... I've not been able to find any examples of that playing game music. If I get it running and it turns out to be able to play them - which it should, it is a MIDI sound module after all - I might make a topic about that 😀

I know it's a shame (I have too much things unused in storage)
I just checked and mine does not come with a Crystal chip but an ESS ES1868 AudioDrive instead.
I'm planning to rebuild my late dos system into a DOS / Win95 system.
It currently already have an ES1868 based sound card. I will experiment with the Guillemot card.

dionb wrote on 2025-02-08, 19:15:

Hit the Terratec jackpot today: […]
Show full quote

Hit the Terratec jackpot today:

EWS64XL in (rather battered) box with all the manuals, driver disks and even paperwork and correspondence with the Terratec importer

But if you know EWS64, you're missing what makes this the XL- the 5.25" bay breakout box. And it is missing, but something else isn't:

The Waldorf microWAVE PC synth breakout box that turns this EWS64 into an XXL.

No DOS support for the Waldorf, but this is a perfect excuse to convert my Tualatin Win2k system to Win98SE (EWS64 and Win2k is not a great combo...)

Oh wow.. My unicorn.......