Rendition Verite Thread

Discussion about old PC hardware and Retro PCs

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby Pippy P. Poopypants » 2011-8-07 @ 02:19

Made a quick compatibility list of games I've tested on the Stealth II S220 (V2100), similar to what leilei did with her PCx2 stuff.

http://sites.google.com/site/martinsgui ... -resources

Will keep updating it once I test more games. So far as you can see anything OpenGL (not Quake/Quake II-related) is more than likely to be a crapshoot. :)
GUIs and reviews of other random stuff

Вфхуи ZoPиЕ m
СФИР Et. SEPOHЖ
Chebzon фt Ymeztoix © 1959 zem
User avatar
Pippy P. Poopypants
Member
 
Posts: 283
Joined: 2009-8-01 @ 19:50

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby Tetrium » 2011-8-07 @ 04:40

I think I asked it before somewhere, but what could be considered the most balanced CPU to match with a Rendition 2100 PCI?
I'd imagine it would be a Pentium MMX 233 or so?
User avatar
Tetrium
l33t
 
Posts: 4255
Joined: 2010-1-27 @ 18:53
Location: Netherlands

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby swaaye » 2011-8-08 @ 00:01

That or maybe a low end P II. They are similar to a Voodoo1 in the best case games. Most 1998 and newer games have problems with Verite so you can't really get CPU limited with those processors.
User avatar
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 5230
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby Pippy P. Poopypants » 2011-8-11 @ 09:26

Personally the absolute max. that I would go with is a PII 350. Anything beyond and the card is just gonna get saturated. The unreleased Hercules Thriller Conspiracy was supposedly designed to help P1 owners achieve near-PII gaming performance, so yeah I guess these weren't really designed to go far.
GUIs and reviews of other random stuff

Вфхуи ZoPиЕ m
СФИР Et. SEPOHЖ
Chebzon фt Ymeztoix © 1959 zem
User avatar
Pippy P. Poopypants
Member
 
Posts: 283
Joined: 2009-8-01 @ 19:50

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby swaaye » 2011-8-11 @ 17:39

Thriller Conspiracy was a bad idea because only OpenGL games would have supported its transform chip. Direct3D didn't have any support for external transform hardware until v7, AFAIK, whereas Quake-based games inherently support it.

V2200 got buried by Voodoo2 quickly anyway, in both performance and compatibility. For that matter, a Voodoo1 is a better choice in almost every game. Verite chips are most interesting with Speedy3D and RRedline games but there aren't that many of them.
User avatar
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 5230
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby [GPUT]Carsten » 2011-9-06 @ 21:20

Thanks for the great thread, there's invaluable stuff in here! Glad you enjoy my pic of Bonnie & Clyde :)
User avatar
[GPUT]Carsten
Newbie
 
Posts: 54
Joined: 2011-9-06 @ 18:25

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby robertmo » 2011-9-23 @ 09:18

Confirmed Kill was never released
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/916198-confirmed-kill
User avatar
robertmo
l33t
 
Posts: 4026
Joined: 2003-6-18 @ 10:35

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby swaaye » 2011-9-23 @ 20:13

robertmo wrote:Confirmed Kill was never released
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/916198-confirmed-kill


Added a note. Thanks.
User avatar
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 5230
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby SquallStrife » 2012-2-14 @ 01:43

swaaye wrote:Thriller Conspiracy was a bad idea because only OpenGL games would have supported its transform chip. Direct3D didn't have any support for external transform hardware until v7, AFAIK, whereas Quake-based games inherently support it.

V2200 got buried by Voodoo2 quickly anyway, in both performance and compatibility. For that matter, a Voodoo1 is a better choice in almost every game. Verite chips are most interesting with Speedy3D and RRedline games but there aren't that many of them.


That's why I went with a V2200 8MB + Voodoo 6MB in my dual-MMX box. :)

I saw in the first post that you were trying to get your hands on the 8MB variant of V2200, are there any benchies or whatever I could run for you?
VogonsDrivers.com | Link | News Thread
[retro swim] | Link | Release Thread
What the hell are you talking about, Max?
Sam, either termites are burrowing through my skull, or one of us is ticking...
User avatar
SquallStrife
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: 2010-2-06 @ 15:18
Location: Drowning in consoles

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby swaaye » 2012-2-14 @ 01:47

I think the advantages to 8MB would be 1) maybe smoother play from less texture memory swapping in some later games 2) higher resolutions. I'm not sure the latter is useful considering the performance level and the former probably won't show up on benchmarks other than a simple large texture test. ;)

I still need to get myself on 8MB card. Considering how rare Verite cards are, I guess they didn't exactly sell well. Aside from the all too common Stealth II, anyway.
User avatar
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 5230
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby Putas » 2012-2-14 @ 08:00

I did not found them rare at all were I live. Got two non-Stealth 8 MB PCI and maybe one AGP. Can I run some tests for you?
User avatar
Putas
Member
 
Posts: 341
Joined: 2010-11-21 @ 06:58
Location: q3dm6

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby keropi » 2012-2-14 @ 09:31

meh the more I read this thread the more I want a rendition just to see those few native games... LOL
User avatar
keropi
l33t
 
Posts: 2970
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby idspispopd » 2012-2-17 @ 09:02

This seems to be an appropriate place to dump some Rendition literature (see attachments).

v2200spec.pdf is very interesting and could answer some questions about the performance of V1000 and V2x00, even if you don't want to program the chips yourself. (The spec is for the V2200, but in several places the differences between V1000 and V2200 are highlighted. It seems that V2200 is running in V1000 compatibility mode until the driver switches to native mode.)

APIManual-VLibHostsideGraphics.pdf is what it says on the front page - an excerpted draft, quite incomplete. Maybe this is interesting for somebody.

(I will put this files on the Vintage Driver Library if I can get an account.)
Attachments
APIManual-VLibHostsideGraphics.pdf
The Vérité™ VLib API (Excerpted Draft) Version 0.6
A Guide to Vérité™ Graphics Rendering
(268.33 KiB) Downloaded 88 times
v2200spec.pdf
V2200 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS (including RISC PROGRAMMING)
(3.76 MiB) Downloaded 98 times
idspispopd
Member
 
Posts: 358
Joined: 2012-2-15 @ 21:08
Location: Hamburg / Germany

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby swaaye » 2012-2-17 @ 18:36

I'd say somebody should emulate it, but I can only think of a handful of games that would benefit from that. :) It's fascinating to read about the architecture though.
User avatar
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 5230
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby idspispopd » 2012-2-17 @ 20:03

Tetrium wrote:I think I asked it before somewhere, but what could be considered the most balanced CPU to match with a Rendition 2100 PCI?
I'd imagine it would be a Pentium MMX 233 or so?


According to http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/3d-accelerator-review-step,51-23.html it depends, but a Pentium MMX 233 should be quite balanced:

Image

(Benchmarks run at 640x480, GLQuake is Bigass1, Quake is timedemo demo1.)
Remember that this is an overclocked V2200. If you are talking about a V2100 at the standard clock of 40 MHz then your Pentium would be overkill.
idspispopd
Member
 
Posts: 358
Joined: 2012-2-15 @ 21:08
Location: Hamburg / Germany

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby swaaye » 2012-2-17 @ 20:42

Well a P233MMX is ok but I can think of a couple of situations where you would want more speed than that. Grand Prix Legends, for example, is a game with RRedline support but it needs ~PIII to run really well (probably because of simulation and AI).

But when you consider the bulk of games that a V2200 will correctly run, a P233MMX is fine. It's really a D3D 5 / Quake 1 level card.
User avatar
swaaye
Moderator
 
Posts: 5230
Joined: 2002-7-22 @ 21:24
Location: WI, USA

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby idspispopd » 2012-2-18 @ 06:30

swaaye wrote:I think the advantages to 8MB would be 1) maybe smoother play from less texture memory swapping in some later games 2) higher resolutions. I'm not sure the latter is useful considering the performance level and the former probably won't show up on benchmarks other than a simple large texture test. ;)


Regarding 2): Agreed.
Regarding 1): Depends on what you consider to be later games. Quake II with high quality setting is enough to see a noticeable difference with Voodoo2 with 2 MB vs 4 MB of texture memory, see http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/celesteville/1407/timedemo.htm. But V2200 might be to slow for these setting to be useful anyway.
IMO the biggest advantage to 8 MB is that you are able to switch on triple buffering. 3 screen buffers of 640*480 at 16bpp + one z-buffer at 16bpp is 2,457,600 bytes leaving 1,736,704 for textures, microcode and everything else (whatever that else might be) with a 4MB card. Depending on the game you could use more. But you seem to be aware of this early in this thread:
swaaye wrote:According to the 1998 Gold MiniGL readme, triple buffering is enabled by default. This should negate issues with vsync and framerates. However, triple buffering may be a problem with 4MB cards because an extra screen buffer consumes more video RAM. I have no idea if their older OpenGL drivers have triple buffering support or whether it's on by default if so. This will definitely affect benchmark results because double buffering w/ vsync will lock the framerate near fractions of the refresh rate.

And of course 8MB should make it easier to run 24-bit color. Although I don't remember how big the performance hit was - that would probably be to slow to be usable.

swaaye wrote:I still need to get myself on 8MB card. Considering how rare Verite cards are, I guess they didn't exactly sell well. Aside from the all too common Stealth II, anyway.


I should still have my old card (QDI Legend V2200 8MB AGP) in the basement, if I could only find it (and the time to do something with it...)
Last edited by idspispopd on 2012-2-18 @ 07:09, edited 1 time in total.
idspispopd
Member
 
Posts: 358
Joined: 2012-2-15 @ 21:08
Location: Hamburg / Germany

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby noshutdown » 2012-2-18 @ 07:00

i also have a qdi v2200 but its 4mb, what about yours?
noshutdown
Member
 
Posts: 470
Joined: 2010-7-23 @ 17:04
Location: China

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby idspispopd » 2012-2-18 @ 07:09

It's 8MB, that's why I mentioned it. I will edit my post.
idspispopd
Member
 
Posts: 358
Joined: 2012-2-15 @ 21:08
Location: Hamburg / Germany

Re: Rendition Verité Speedy3D/RRedline info and pics

Postby Putas » 2012-2-18 @ 16:46

I have Canopus Total3D, should I try to get 3d glasses or is there no point?

The card is incredibly unstable, even VQuake freezes after like 5 minutes.
User avatar
Putas
Member
 
Posts: 341
Joined: 2010-11-21 @ 06:58
Location: q3dm6

PreviousNext

Return to Marvin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kithylin and 1 guest