PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-11 @ 17:22

Kamerat wrote:Find this a little strange that the newer P4M900+VT8237S seems more compatible than PT880 Ultra+VT8237A and that's also the case with the ESS Solo-1, perhaps Asrock left out something during the chipset initialization.

Maybe its Asrock, i wouldn't be surprised, ESS-Solo is working with VIA 880, but i reached only 55% of compatibility.

Kamerat wrote:The "T4DWIRQ" utility is a 3rd party tool for changing the IRQ and IRQ mode of the Trident 4DWave and SiS 7018. "WAVEINIT" is the initializer for the Trident 4DWave and the "/0" option is for overiding/force the bus detection.

Sorry bad cell, but thanks for explanation anyway.. For P4M900 is mentioned DDMA LT IRQ. but dont know how to set it if is not default one and if it is meant for official or unofficial driver.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-11-11 @ 17:35

dr.zeissler wrote:Checked my FutroC100. Switched the Lpt-Port to Irq5 to get the solo1 on Irq7. Works really good.

Do you really need LPT at all, its good best practice disable in bios everything what you really dont need (or not need at the moment of testing problematic test case) and with modern MB use some special DOS profile where you disable almost everything. From my experience everything sound card related should be tested with both IRQ 5/7, all memory managers modes, 32 MB of ram etc.. until is declared as not working.


sure I always use LPT because of:
- COVOX with optional TANDY-EM, optional DSS
- Zipdrive
- Fast ATARI-STE connection
- Commodore 1541

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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-11-11 @ 17:39

ruthan wrote: Maybe its Asrock, i wouldn't be surprised, ESS-Solo is working with VIA 880, but i reached only 55% of compatibility.


The 55% compatibility is 100% depending on the games and their soundengines you have chosen.
All dosgames that are not too speed-sensitive and only use FM will work 100% on ess-solo.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-11 @ 20:00

dr.zeissler wrote:The 55% compatibility is 100% depending on the games and their soundengines you have chosen.
All dosgames that are not too speed-sensitive and only use FM will work 100% on ess-solo.

I tested 165 titles, lots of major popular games, i make sense to chearry pick games based on sound card, or play them without FX.

Otherwise ALS4000 + VIA 880 with official driver - FX is for some games working with my settings - Dungeon Master I, Dungeon Keeper, that good.. but for lots of major games dont working, Quake 1 - clicking, Doom 1 and 2 registry errors or reset, Blood setup FX cant be detected, Warcraft 2 is setup sound samples tests are ok, but they i try to executed game, i get General protection fault error, MDK demo - sound card cant be detected.

I dunno if was good idea that i set blaster variable SB card type to T6 for SB16, but as far i know majority of games ignores it, im only sure that Quake is using it.

So, i have some variables on suboptimal values and i have to find better values, or compatibility is not great, so far i was tested only realmode to avoid problems with EMM386. I cant say that problem is elsewhere that in sound, because with FM only at least Dooms are working.. maybe some resource conflict.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby Kamerat » 2018-11-12 @ 05:00

ruthan wrote:Sorry bad cell, but thanks for explanation anyway.. For P4M900 is mentioned DDMA LT IRQ. but dont know how to set it if is not default one and if it is meant for official or unofficial driver.

It's the default one in the 3rd party initializer, just look at the ALS4KDOS.CFG file.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-12 @ 06:15

Kamerat wrote:It's the default one in the 3rd party initializer, just look at the ALS4KDOS.CFG file.

Some user experience would be handy, its for you working both unofficial(3rd party) and official driver with Doom II without half-broken sound for pistol shooting? I tried Q1 - there are some sounds, but there far from original ones - it seems like only part of sound is played, or something like that. Blood - setup test is ok, but freeze during sound system inicialization.
What driver you are recommend etc?

I checked unofficial driver: There are some variables candidates to fiddle except IRQ triggering - DSP_VER defult is SB16, but i saw in readme that its working only 8-Bbit DMA, is there any benefic of SB16 settings? DDMA_BASE = 0x1000 , i dont really now anything about it is working for some games, make sense to change it to fix others? Default DMA metod is 0 - Auto (chipset dependent), its strange that it not worked for me and its working for a bit newer VIA, i will retest it once more.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-13 @ 07:12

I made some progress with ALS4000.

- I can confirm that DMA mode 0 - Auto its working too with unoffical drivers, but compatibility is even less than with DMA mode 3, but it seems that game which are working with it dont have that half broken sound.
- i attached my drivers package, it has Official and Unofficial drivers and *.bat to run both some command line with IRQ 5 + 7, it can help someone.
- i tried different - 1st one PCI slot its the same

Here is compatibility log:

Working:
UNOFF(DMA MODE3): Doom2(FX sound sub optimal,worst working which i even heard),Quake (FX suboptimal),Doom1(Fx, suboptimal),GoldenAxe,Raptor (sound seems to be fine).
Unoff(DMA MODE 0): Raptor,DungMas1
OFFical: DKeeper, DungMas1,Wolfenstein3D,DukeNukem2

Not working:
UNOFF(DMA MODE 3): DKeeeper,Blood,Duke3D,DescentI(broken),DungMas 2(broken).
UNOFF(DMA MODE 0): Doom2,Quake1,Settlers2(cant detect SC),Descent(only FM),Blood.
OFF: Doom2(start),Quake1(clicking),Raptor(start),Carmadeggon(nosound),Dynablaster. HeroesofMM1,GrandPrix-Cycles-Adlib is not working.

Other source of problem could be my cards model.. I searched additional info and i got scared when, i see picture of other "proper" card with ALS4000.
Image

Because mine looks like this:
Mine.jpg


There are other cards with this design like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPUSA-PCI-32 ... :rk:3:pf:0

I didnt check how card "should look", before buy. I would be easy to say that my card is crapp and that reason of but sound quality, but Dungeon Keeper and Raptor when there are working FX sound seems to be completely fine, FM when is working too. Im not circuit designer, but in my eyes is marvel that card with much less components actually working.. and it explains what Rayer was saying that ALS4000 look very cheap, if as you can see there are proper variants..

I would not be surprised when we would discover that there are some variants, which are working better and worse, Phil mentioned something like that in his Cmedia 8738 video that some cards, missing some component to actually make gameport and other things working and some are really fine.. Look at TERRATEC AUREON 5 its completly something different than typicalC-Media 8738 ebay cheap stuff, i again would be surprised if there would be some Dos compatibility effect.

If is someone able to identify manufacturers of both cards, it would be nice to know.

Update:
WIndows XP sound is also fine, i can normally listen music and youtube.

ALS4000.zip
(1.03 MiB) Downloaded 5 times
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-13 @ 14:56

In last days i was fiddling with video capture, i found some old PCI cards, here is recording how bad is FX with ALS 4000 unofficial driver with my machine, first is Doom 2 here is not so obvious but second if Quake its much worse.
Disclaimer: Sorry i found only short cables, played in small windows and with keyboard on my legs a in Quake i forgot that my mouse is on other table, so gameplay sucks. I just used some recording and exporting settings.. For recording i used very old Realtek HD on board card and some jack joiners..
https://streamable.com/dj2yw

Its good for future i can show some stuff sometimes is better just record something not use the text. I have hour for it, but hope that i would able today record some FM801 FM..
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-13 @ 15:44

Ok here is Fortemedia FM recording Doom 1 + 2 first map, Descent 1 menu and Monkey Island 2 credits, part of intro..
https://streamable.com/6wcql // Click on speaker icon to enable sound, its probably no sound by default.

Otherwise FM801 compatibility with VIA 880 seems to be fine, most frequent games are usually running and didnt tested obscure ones.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-13 @ 21:59

I have good news for DOS music guys - ALS 4000 showed its good side and FM is working fine with both - official and not official driver with Z97 chipset, what is so far best Z97 dos result. Adlib is working with both too.

FX as excepted not working i tried all four DMA modes with unofficial driver too. Official i thing reports are from PCI IO base - C000 and IRQ - 000B during loading, im not expert in memory range, but it is probably not good..

But working Adlib means that some very old games as Dungeon Master 1 (tested with unoff driver) are working completely, there is title screen music and ingame sound are good too.

And we have source code to fiddle with FX, its only ~1200 lines nothing too big...
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-21 @ 22:23

I tested Aureal V1 + nforce 430 (i bough cheap fast Athlom X2 5600+ which i wanted to test a found that 1 my useless MB is compatible), i tested only few games (Doom 2, Quake 1, Warcraft 2, Update: MDK,Blood fine too) for short time, but did not this any problems, sound is good i would say clean but its Aureal:), in 1st post is something about loops are crashes, maybe it could take a while, or we would need some reevelation.

With same board ESS-Solo1 (FM only), Yamaha 744 (driver start freeze).
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-22 @ 16:45

I just tested VIA KT400 MB all these are working (FX+FM):
AurealV1
Yamaha744(DSDMA)
SB Live!
FM 801
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-11-22 @ 19:46

Solo1 should work in KT400 too...works in my KT266 very well. (Shuttle SK43G)
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-22 @ 20:04

Yeah its working too, forgot to add it on list, but with such boards seems to working almost everything.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-11-22 @ 23:28

I am experimenting with my ScoveryXS D1215 (i815e)again. I changed the LPT from irq7 to irq5, so I get my Solo1 under plain dos to I7.
With this I can play Pindball-Dreams1 in SbPro! Pdreams2 and Pinball Fantasies do only work in "Adlib" Mode due to the chipset-error for the DMA IRQ Routing.
With the irq7 setting Gods is also fine. Using setmul l1d l2d I can play the classic adventures just fine. DOTT, SQ4/5 etc. do work fine now in Soundblaster-Mode! before that I alway got "unable to initialize your sound hardware".
But I was not able to get Blood/Duke/ShadowWarior working. These are still tricky.

Interestingly my solo1 is configured to irq7 in win98se now. I use the vxd-drivers in order to have fm within dos-window. Strange is that Win98se emulates the soundblaster with irq5 within win98-dos-window even if I have irq7 in windows itself. this is strange...

I did not get the gus-emulator http://deinmeister.de/gusemu/index.html working with the problematic-games und I will checkout vdm9x for them next. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=900#p9116

There must be a way to get nearly everything to work on that damn nice little and silent machine that I love so much.
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby RayeR » 2018-11-26 @ 03:18

Hi, I just finished 2 videos demonstrating FM synth music quality of this PCI soundcards:
Aureal Vortex AU8820B2 FM synth
Yamaha XG YMF724F-V FM synth
YMF724F-V + DreamBlaster wavetable synth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmKdTKt75Kg - Doom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU85u0EJ2yo - Duke Nukem 3D
The sound output was sampled by SB Live! in my 2nd retro PC - Pentium Pro 200, XP-SP2, GoldWave :)
Here is info about my DreamBlaster design (CZ-only) with schematic and pictures.
http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/sbemu.htm#DREAMBLASTER
Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GF7900GT, SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-29 @ 00:00

I could be wrong but if someone has X79 MB with PCI slots at the hand, i would take Yamahas and Aureals V1/V2 a shot.. its not Gigabyte MB block diagram connection is same as with X58 and X79 no PCIe-PCi bridge involved and it would be good thing.. of course its still could be south bridge thing, but..
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby ruthan » 2018-12-07 @ 21:59

Today is become bourgeois, first time in my line i have General midi device.. Dreamblaster for gameport from Rayer, its working great with Yamaha 744 in DOS.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...

Postby dr.zeissler » 2018-12-13 @ 08:38

ESS-SOLO1 WDM Win98 drivers do have some problems with specific games.
Unreal and expendable have crackeling sounds...do not have fixed this yet.
Perhaps I go for an YMH744 in that D1644 i865g-Chipset. (FSC C610 MicroDesktop 2xPCI)
Btw. i845gv has issues with flashlights in SOF1, i865g does not. Performance is much better. Now gaming in 1024x768 is possible. (i845 800x600)
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FSC-C610.jpg
CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000
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